My company hiring immigrants.

[mikedavid00]

First, we really need a 'say anything' of 'off topic' forum.

Anyhow, I work for a Canadian owned business with about 50 emplyoees with offices in Vancouver, Montreal, and our main office in Toronto.

Like all Canadian businesses, we are struggling and have trouble making ends meet.

After 8 years in business, I am sad to announce, that they have resorted to hiring on a contract basis. One girl for 3 months, another for 6 weeks.

Both low paid, and visible minorities who are immigrants.

They looked for cheaper labor and they found it. Lower wages, people taking jobs from Canadians. Enough said.

Our dept posted a position for simple administration and got over 80 resumes. We were looking for people to simply put papers in folders and fwd emails, and got over half of the resumes of people applying with more than 1 degree.

It's sad and pathetic just how diluted our labor market has become. The guy before me got paid $65k. I am doing probably twice the work and am getting much less than him. If they fire me and employ someone else, he will get paid even less. The difference between us is he entered in the work place sooner than me, and so goes the story.

We let in too many immigrants people, too fast, and we allowed too much easy education which dilutes the degree. If everyone had a degree, it would be worth nothing in the market place. What makes it special is that not everyone has it. But if 98% of people had one, it would be required even to work at Tim Hortons.

As a Canadian I'm ashamed that our company for the first time has gone this route. I will protest this when necessary to anyone management that I feel is interested.

For the position on our team, I pleaded to just give the young uneducated Canadian girl in the warehouse a chance to wear some dress clothes and give her an 'office' job where she can file and such. As a Canadian it's the right thing to do. It's such a big thing to her, such a small thing to us..

But no.. they want to play resumes like sports and try to rate potential employees on degrees work experience when all the job is, is taking papers and filing them.

See this is the Liberal mindset. Self hatred. Self destructive. And that girl in the warehouse, well.. she'll be packing boxes and getting low wages as we attempt to look for some 'highly educated' immigrant who has no clue what's going on, cannot proficiatnly type emails, needs constand direction, misses work, and is a general pain in the *ss.

But oh my!! She has 2 degrees! One from Mumbai and one from UofT!!! Wow!

[M.Dancer]

But oh my!! She has 2 degrees! One from Mumbai and one from UofT!!! Wow!

Which is why she is probably only interested in contract work..not that your story is believable. I mean, how often do people have access to confidential human resource files with data on pay etc.....

10 to 1....bullshit

[Smallc]

Like all Canadian businesses, we are struggling and have trouble making ends meet.

News to me.

[Kitch]

Which is why she is probably only interested in contract work..not that your story is believable. I mean, how often do people have access to confidential human resource files with data on pay etc.....

10 to 1....bullshit

Let's assume it's not for a minute though. A company that is struggling wants to save money by hiring people who will work for less and do more work. Sounds like capitalism to me.

No need for the shot at leftists either.

[Wild Bill]

Which is why she is probably only interested in contract work..not that your story is believable. I mean, how often do people have access to confidential human resource files with data on pay etc.....

10 to 1....bullshit

Hey, I watched this and similar things happen for years! The story is entirely familiar and plausible to me. Of even more interest, this sort of thing tended to disappear when a company I worked for was bought out by Americans.

I think you have to work for a number of struggling Canadian private firms to get perspective on this. If you work in the public sector you would have absolutely no idea! Not that you would not have different problems but you would have it hard to believe in this one unless you lived it.

[Kitch]

Hey, I watched this and similar things happen for years! The story is entirely familiar and plausible to me. Of even more interest, this sort of thing tended to disappear when a company I worked for was bought out by Americans.

I think you have to work for a number of struggling Canadian private firms to get perspective on this. If you work in the public sector you would have absolutely no idea! Not that you would not have different problems but you would have it hard to believe in this one unless you lived it.

He's not implying that the story isn't plausible. He's inferring that it's fabricated because some aspects of the story are unbelievable.

If I may put words in some one else's mouth.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Kitch

[Sir Bandelot]

Seems like the real problem in cases like this is not to be blamed on immigrants. They like anyone else just want a job so they can live. Ask yourself why people with degrees are applying for a job that doesn't require one. And I say this knowingly as in my own field of work we encounter this all the time. People with good qualifications can't find work that they are trained for, and out of desperation will take lower paying jobs, that don't even require a degree. Employers are all too happy to hire at lower and lower wages... every time a job is vacated, especially one where a long-time employee who has had some wage increases over the years leaves the job, this is only good for the empoyer who wants to pay the least they can get away with and still get the job done. No my friend, the big problem is not so much the immigrants coming here, its the jobs going over there!

And good luck finding someone in management who cares enough to listen to your complaints. They are not in the habit of doing things that please you, nor do they require your approval. And remember if you leave, you'll have to get in line with 80 or more other job seekers, most of whom are overqualified and willing to do the job for less than you. So your choice is obvious...

Edited October 29, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[craiger]

Do us a favour and quit your job don't help train or educate these people. I did it after running a crew of temporary foreign worker china men. I started contracting for myself I pay better wages but I also don't deal with headaches of comunication problems, broken procedures and codes it costs allot of money for re work.

I don't care they can do shotty work with there unordidox trade skills. In the end I get the work as I hire the best of the best, my orders are backed up for the next 18 months as i provide quality.

your only fueling the flames. resist your services, your the best. Look at it this way they are making money on you, your doing them the favour. for them to show in return a monkey can do your job should be a insult. i would quit.

Edited October 29, 2008 by craiger

[JB Globe]

For the record, the above Mike David story is just as true as the one where he had that dinner at his place with all those "visible minority friends" that, uncoincidentally agree with every one of his xenophobic views, thus proving that he isn't racist because his friends say so.

You see - just because Mike can't find stats to back up his claims, and just because the personal anecdotes he posts in lieu of those facts sound contrived and impossible, doesn't mean he has an irrational hatred of people who are different than he is.

After all, like MD says - it's not bigoted to dislike ALL Italians, It's only bigoted to dislike ALL Jews.

That's because Mike likes it when their Jew-country kills Muslims, and Muslims are bad, so that makes Jews good.

Which of course means, that if Mike were to ever encounter my Jewish-Italian self, he may have an aneurysm.

Edited October 29, 2008 by JB Globe

[Brunopolis]

"We let in too many immigrants people, too fast, and we allowed too much easy education which dilutes the degree. If everyone had a degree, it would be worth nothing in the market place. What makes it special is that not everyone has it. But if 98% of people had one, it would be required even to work at Tim Hortons. "

This part of your comment really bothers me. Canada specifically target's educated citizens from third world countries because we we can't find enough workers here. Then you complain that their are too many "skilled" immigrants taking your jobs at the same time deriding the education system for making it too easy to get an education.

So, essentially what I gather from your post is that Canada should reduce both the education and immigration levels of our country so you are more valuable and thus make more money.

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2008-10-27/...immigration.htm

http://www.migrationexpert.com/Canada/visa...skilled_workers

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/pinoy-migration...skilled-workers

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/09/3...hewan-jobs.html

http://www.globalvisas.com/news/canada_nee...igrants544.html

http://www.conservative.ca/?section_id=109...;tpid=3171&

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/524429

http://www.metronews.ca/edmonton/work/article/131459

[William Ashley]

What is your point.

People are people.

I think it is great Canada has skilled workers interested in Migrating here, the world should be one without borders. It people are able to readjust and find work what harm is done. Before they were "educated" by the colonial empires they survived there. so what if programmers or teachers who care more about money or abandon their native land to seek a better life do so, that is their right. If their nation wanted them there they would draft laws to stop skilled workers from emigrating.

Some people I know who have been here as refugees have had very nice backgrounds, sons of diplomats and government employees, but in a wartorn country, once that gouvernment falls or becomes unstable it is better for them to seek education or work out of their native country than remain as a target within it.

Also they can always go home, if they don't care enough about their people what does it matter. Also in some places like somalia, they come here work and send their money home. Improving their native economy more than they could if they were there.

If you are so concerned why not start a school in a country you are concerned with to make up the "demand" for skilled workers of those sorts. Or get involved with such an organization.

Part of human settlement is that areas have boon times and down times. Populations change and migrate overtime, as the economy fluctuates. If the area isn't good why stay? It is just a huge rock with imaginary lines drawn all around it with people fighting for make me feel good candy in a giant, this is my life act.

Why not help people realize their dreams if it does more good than harm.

What matters more giving someone freedom, or forcing them to provide for others at a loss to that freedom?

[William Ashley]

What is your point.

People are people.

I think it is great Canada has skilled workers interested in Migrating here, the world should be one without borders. It people are able to readjust and find work what harm is done. Before they were "educated" by the colonial empires they survived there. so what if programmers or teachers who care more about money or abandon their native land to seek a better life do so, that is their right. If their nation wanted them there they would draft laws to stop skilled workers from emigrating.

Some people I know who have been here as refugees have had very nice backgrounds, sons of diplomats and government employees, but in a wartorn country, once that gouvernment falls or becomes unstable it is better for them to seek education or work out of their native country than remain as a target within it.

Also they can always go home, if they don't care enough about their people what does it matter. Also in some places like somalia, they come here work and send their money home. Improving their native economy more than they could if they were there.

If you are so concerned why not start a school in a country you are concerned with to make up the "demand" for skilled workers of those sorts. Or get involved with such an organization.

Part of human settlement is that areas have boon times and down times. Populations change and migrate overtime, as the economy fluctuates. If the area isn't good why stay? It is just a huge rock with imaginary lines drawn all around it with people fighting for make me feel good candy in a giant, this is my life act.

Why not help people realize their dreams if it does more good than harm.

What matters more giving someone freedom, or forcing them to provide for others at a loss to that freedom?

Society and the public is the backbone of social support, but the individual is just that.. someone that should be allowed to realize their dream and escape or defeat their nightmares.

In a free world.

[William Ashley]

Society and the public is the backbone of social support, but the individual is just that.. someone that should be allowed to realize their dream and escape or defeat their nightmares.

In a free world.

BTW when you get let go or before that you are more than welcome to start a business with myself or yourself or someone else....

If you don't have voting stock that tends to be the way of the world.

and my condolences.

It isn't them though. It is a big world.

[William Ashley]

BTW when you get let go or before that you are more than welcome to start a business with myself or yourself or someone else....

If you don't have voting stock that tends to be the way of the world.

and my condolences.

It isn't them though. It is a big world.

I forgot one more thing... or find a new more secure job.

[Brunopolis]

I think it is great Canada has skilled workers interested in Migrating here, the world should be one without borders. It people are able to readjust and find work what harm is done. Before they were "educated" by the colonial empires they survived there. so what if programmers or teachers who care more about money or abandon their native land to seek a better life do so, that is their right. If their nation wanted them there they would draft laws to stop skilled workers from emigrating.

If Canada had no borders it would be flooded by immigrants from every nook and corner in the world. So that is why Canada regularly denies immigration requests.

Also countries with limited resources cannot draft laws to stop skilled workers from emigrating. What are you going to do? Hold a gun to their head telling them not to leave?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_drain

How can a third world nation possibly pay even close to what first world nations do? How can a third world nation pick itself up off it's feet if its best and brightest are specifically targetted by first world nations for immigration?

[craiger]

define a skilled immigrant! sure we could find many skilled in the USA or Europe. but they don't come here because they are skilled and their country is good. what we get is the bottom of the barrel who come from third world country's that clame they are skilled, ya maybe skilled in their country lol.

Bring me a china man off the boat who can do what any skilled canadian can do you will find they are bellow mediocre. I wouldn't hire em and thats comming from experience managing them. i wouldn't trust them to clean a toilet bowl.

Edited October 29, 2008 by craiger

[Shakeyhands]

phhhffftttt.... I bet that the 'immigrant woman' is not only smarter than you, but that she comes in to work every day ready to do the best job that she can do, even when it's raining.

[Sir Bandelot]

Bring me a china man off the boat who can do what any skilled canadian can do you will find they are bellow mediocre. I wouldn't hire em and thats comming from experience managing them. i wouldn't trust them to clean a toilet bowl.

The chinese immigrant at my former place of employ in Toronto was the best machinist I've ever seen. Although he could not speak english well, he soon became highly respected by the old-timers, all white non-immigrants.

He also kept quiet and minded his own business.

[M.Dancer]

Hey, I watched this and similar things happen for years! The story is entirely familiar and plausible to me. Of even more interest, this sort of thing tended to disappear when a company I worked for was bought out by Americans.

I think you have to work for a number of struggling Canadian private firms to get perspective on this. If you work in the public sector you would have absolutely no idea! Not that you would not have different problems but you would have it hard to believe in this one unless you lived it.

Of course it happens.....the question is though is this story real. How many compnies give access to personal information about employees and contract workers to digruntled minions?

[M.Dancer]

For the record, the above Mike David story is just as true as the one where he had that dinner at his place with all those "visible minority friends" that, uncoincidentally agree with every one of his xenophobic views, thus proving that he isn't racist because his friends say so.

My thoughts exactly...

[Argus]

Which is why she is probably only interested in contract work..not that your story is believable. I mean, how often do people have access to confidential human resource files with data on pay etc.....

10 to 1....bullshit

Actually, it all sounded quite true to me. And you don't need confidential HR files to know approximately what the pay rates of various jobs at work are. As someone who has never been in HR (thank God) I've gone through an awful lot of resumes over the years. And some of what he says does ring true. We got tons of people applying for basic clerical jobs who had degrees. I hired a temp clerk once who had 2 degrees and had been looking for work for nine months. He was a very bright guy, too. Last time I needed someone mainly to sort documents and push a mail cart, and I sorted through the resumes looking for the person who was least qualified - on the theory all those people with degrees and vast experience would be unhappy and unlikely to stay at the job I wanted done.

Our idiot of a director general once suggested that we should be only hiring people with degrees, simply because they were available. We ignored him because we knew they wouldn't be the right fit for that group, and would never stay on any longer than it took to find better.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Argus

[Argus]

Let's assume it's not for a minute though. A company that is struggling wants to save money by hiring people who will work for less and do more work. Sounds like capitalism to me.

No need for the shot at leftists either.

Of course it's capitalism. But no one would support unbridled capitalism, no matter how conservative. Capitalism would also be served if they could hire people at a dollar an hour, you know, or if they could purchase slaves. Would that be a good idea for Canada?

[Argus]

The chinese immigrant at my former place of employ in Toronto was the best machinist I've ever seen. Although he could not speak english well, he soon became highly respected by the old-timers, all white non-immigrants.

He also kept quiet and minded his own business.

What's your point? No one is saying there aren't good immigrants. As for speaking English well - yes, you can get by without it, but it's far, far, far preferable to be able to communicate.

As for work ethic, for some reason all the cleaning staff at my large building are Somalian women. They are as unfamiliar with the concept of "cleaning" as they are with the English language. They are an ongoing joke throughout the building, with staff everywhere complaining and mocking them.

But that doesn't mean all immigrants are lazy and useless any more than your own anectdote means the opposite.

Most Somalians, on the other hand.....

[William Ashley]

If Canada had no borders it would be flooded by immigrants from every nook and corner in the world. So that is why Canada regularly denies immigration requests.

Also countries with limited resources cannot draft laws to stop skilled workers from emigrating. What are you going to do? Hold a gun to their head telling them not to leave?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_drain

How can a third world nation possibly pay even close to what first world nations do? How can a third world nation pick itself up off it's feet if its best and brightest are specifically targetted by first world nations for immigration?

There is something called "resource threshold" obviously canada would fill to its peak of support as needs based goods would rise in price until there was sacrcity. At which point people wouldn't be able to survive. Which may increase the crime rate. As long as we didn't deport immigrant criminals and instead sent them to works projects growing food and developing the north, I would think that there would be offset. However one would hope that those immigrating would improve the economy not damage it. Canada has what I call babyboomer age failure. We have a lot of boomers who become less and less productive as time goes on. Each one of these people requires 2 or 3 immigrants to be supported adequettely. Eventually it will be around 5 immigrants per boomer.

Also you can think that "if we just open the gates" obviouslly we need to be able to process people so there would be a set rate of entry. First letting people come in on a "temporary visa" that requires a deposit for return air fare back to their country. Each month they would pay a small fee to renew the temporary visa. If they manage to survive here for a few years then it would seem that they are stable and they could consider permanent residency and move to naturalization.

It is made out to be something bigger than it is. While it does increase needs, and potentially inflates costs. Canada has a lot of land, we just need to offer incentives for people to move to underpopulated areas, such as Northern Ontario and The North of Canada. For instance opening up Northern ontario would be a good first start.. opening up a few new settlements up there.

But no immigration is good as long as it is checked. This immigrant fear or hate really serves no purpose other than remove potentials for cooperation.

Also countries can draft laws to stop people from immigrating.. you just don't let them go - eg. no Passport, no travel. Countries can very much restrict travel of its citizens.

Even though the constitution of Canada says canadians can enter and leave the country. Without a passport it becomes very difficult, and a passport is not gaurenteed, you need to get someone to approve the passport. EIther by paying them, or by knowing people.

Also anyone with a criminal record in canada, by default is also potentially barred from their right to enter and leave canada.

---------

But yah that is exactly what you do, prohibit your skilled people from leaving the country - eg on grounds of national security, everyone who has been trained as a doctor is not permitted to leave the country due to skill shortages here. Special permission much be obtained to leave for the following professions etc... Failure to remain in country during the time of this crisis will result in jail time of not less than 3 year imprisonment. etc..

Edited October 29, 2008 by William Ashley

[Sir Bandelot]

What's your point? No one is saying there aren't good immigrants. As for speaking English well - yes, you can get by without it, but it's far, far, far preferable to be able to communicate.

But that doesn't mean all immigrants are lazy and useless any more than your own anectdote means the opposite.

Thats a nice anecdote about Somalis. Talk about the pot calling the kettle smut.

Somebody else gives an anecdote, I can give an anecdote. When you stop jumping on others for doing the very things you do yourself, I might take you more seriously.

I will continue to do my own thing here whenever I feel like it, and add my own comments to these debates regardless of you questioning my point.