Dion expected to announce resignation Monday

[jdobbin]

It's unfortunate that Liberal supporters have little money and most likely never donate to their cause. Let's face it the Liberals have all the welfare moms and the professionally unemployed, see OCAP.

Actually, it would appear they have some big money supporters but corporate money and large donors are now banned.

It is going to take a new type of fundraising in light of the newer rules.

I personally feel that neither Rae or Ignatieff will win the leadership race. Ignatieff is a Dion clone, an intellectual with little substance. Bob Rae is well Bob Rae, his own record will crush him. Tax and spend. Lead Ontario into the biggest deficits of all time. He will never be PM.

Unlike Dion, Ignatieff was able to get under Harper's skin like few others on the bench. Push him and he pushes back.

The RH Stephan Harper cannot call the next election, the public will crucify him for it. Please stop saying this. Harper may force a party to vote him to non confidence but he himself will not dissolve government.

And if he does, you'll think it is brilliant, no doubt.

I heard the argument time and time again that Harper would not call before the fixed election. I said he would if he could not goad the Opposition into to doing it. I suspect he won't want to wait for a new leader of the Liberals to call an election.

[capricorn]

I'm wondering if Dion going into hiding to ponder his future might have something to do with his wife. From all accounts, he seeks her counsel on decisions, as many politicians do.

Dion may be the leader of the opposition, but Krieber is the CEO of Krieber-Dion Inc. She does the banking, writes the cheques, keeps the books, files the taxes and buys all of his clothes – even his underwear. "Our relationship began like that – for us it's a natural division of labour."

She could have kept the job she loves and already misses but says, "If you knew Stéphane, you'd know that couldn't happen. It's impossible. He's colour-blind. You don't leave him in a house alone."

It's comments like this that have backroom Liberals shaking their heads. Says one, "Many suspect she controls him. She reads his briefing notes. He takes her advice and brings it back to staffers. She's the one people need to go to in order to get to him. Who are people reporting to?" There's even a suggestion circulating in Ottawa that Dion is saving a riding for his wife in the next election.

http://en.chatelaine.com/english/life/arti...4712&page=2

CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife spoke with insiders revealed that Dion is ambivalent about whether to remain as Liberal Leader, but that his wife, Janine Krieber, wants him to stay on.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...008&no_ads=

Could it be that Jeanine is putting excessive pressure on Dion to stay on as leader come hell or high water? What are her motives for doing so? Is this why we haven't heard a peep from him since election night? On the other hand, many top Liberals are calling for his resignation. The guy must be in quite a turmoil.

[jdobbin]

Could it be that Jeanine is putting excessive pressure on Dion to stay on as leader come hell or high water? What are her motives for doing so? Is this why we haven't heard a peep from him since election night? On the other hand, many top Liberals are calling for his resignation. The guy must be in quite a turmoil.

A lot of this information is out of date. Saving a riding for her? Nope, didn't happen. Staying on as leader? Well, your Thursday report from CTV has already been updated several times by the network.

This is the latest:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Ontario Liberal MP John McCallum has been tapped to take over the reins of his party as interim leader if Stephane Dion steps down as expected on Monday, CTV News has learned.

"People in the Liberal Party are still telling us Dion intends to quit Monday afternoon," CTV's chief political correspondent Craig Oliver said Saturday.

Dion's office released a media alert on Friday announcing Monday's 2 p.m. press conference.

I can't think of any married political leader who doesn't consult with family in the aftermath of a defeat.

Everything you have reported is just another attempt to pile on and humiliate Dion. He is leaving, probably for the good if Tory supporters want to attack him through his wife now.

[capricorn]

A lot of this information is out of date. Saving a riding for her? Nope, didn't happen.

At the time of writing, all that information was pertinent. Are you suggesting that everything older than a couple of days on the internet is out of date and irrelevant? The only thing that is unlikely now is that Dion cannot accommodate his wife in providing her a riding to run as an MP as was hinted at a couple of years ago. It was quite clear Jeanine had control of most facets of the Dion household, extending to his decisions on his political future. Dion's wife had a lot to say in his initial decision to run for the leadership and convinced him to go for it. Doubtless she'll have a lot to say about his next move.

Staying on as leader? Well, your Thursday report from CTV has already been updated several times by the network.

The reason I provided that earlier link is to back up my assertion that Jeanine exerted and continues to exert a lot of weight with Dion as to his decisions on the political stage.

This is the latest:

I was well aware of that update but it did not contain the reference to his wife which the earlier version did. As I said, it supported my view that he is influenced greatly by her preferences.

Everything you have reported is just another attempt to pile on and humiliate Dion. He is leaving, probably for the good if Tory supporters want to attack him through his wife now.

Dion's wife is very much in the equation in the present circumstances and therefore is pertinent. As for your suggestion that I am purposely humiliating Dion, I would just say that you read something that wasn't there and is entirely your fabrication. Why didn't you just say you disagree with me and left it at that. But I suppose that wouldn't have achieved your true objective of making me feel low and embarrassed.

[jdobbin]

At the time of writing, all that information was pertinent. Are you suggesting that everything older than a couple of days on the internet is out of date and irrelevant? The only thing that is unlikely now is that Dion cannot accommodate his wife in providing her a riding to run as an MP as was hinted at a couple of years ago. It was quite clear Jeanine had control of most facets of the Dion household, extending to his decisions on his political future. Dion's wife had a lot to say in his initial decision to run for the leadership and convinced him to go for it. Doubtless she'll have a lot to say about his next move.

I'm saying that the information you wrote today speculating that Dion was holding a seat this election for his wife has been proven inaccurate. I doubt the party would let it happen and point to the Olivia Chow example of how it is done.

The reason I provided that earlier link is to back up my assertion that Jeanine exerted and continues to exert a lot of weight with Dion as to his decisions on the political stage.

I have no doubt that Dion's wife has an influence on his future. Your mocking tone suggests you think he cuckolded.

I was well aware of that update but it did not contain the reference to his wife which the earlier version did. As I said, it supported my view that he is influenced greatly by her preferences.

To whit, my reply is so what?

Dion's wife is very much in the equation in the present circumstances and therefore is pertinent. As for your suggestion that I am purposely humiliating Dion, I would just say that you read something that wasn't there and is entirely your fabrication. Why didn't you just say you disagree with me and left it at that. But I suppose that wouldn't have achieved your true objective of making me feel low and embarrassed.

Given the direction you seem to be driving at with your post, your post is aimed at humiliating him.

Well, mission accomplished: Dion has been humiliated. Somehow I doubt there was a Lady Macbeth responsible for his demise. He got into this himself and while his wife might have great influence on aspects of his personal and professional life, he appears to have made the choices he made on his own.

[capricorn]

Given the direction you seem to be driving at with your post, your post is aimed at humiliating him.

Well, mission accomplished: Dion has been humiliated.

About an hour ago, I heard Craig Oliver on Question Period say he was at a rally for Dion and only 12 people showed up. Do you think he wanted to pile on and humiliate him?

[betsy]

Citation? Or what this on MDuffy?

Yes I think it was on MDuffy. And today I saw from the streaming news that senior Liberal MP is asking Dion to give a signal as to his intention tomorrow. So it seems that they are not exactly sure what to expect from Dion tomorrow.

Edited October 19, 2008 by betsy

[betsy]

He seems to have a lot of supporters still. I

Yes. Some MPs like Leblanc came on Question Period today and rebuked those MPs who wrote anonymous letters telling Dion to step down. He said he supports Dion in his decision. And if I'm not mistaken, McCallum said that too. Justin Trudeau says Dion should be let to decide without any pressure. Volpe is the first one to go public urging Dion to resign.

Well....looks like war is now in full rage inside that party.

Edited October 19, 2008 by betsy

[capricorn]

So it seems that they are not exactly sure what to expect from Dion tomorrow.

Mr. Dion is still waiting for a sign that Canadians love him as much as he loves Canada. He really doesn't believe the election results.

[betsy]

Could it be that Jeanine is putting excessive pressure on Dion to stay on as leader come hell or high water? What are her motives for doing so? Is this why we haven't heard a peep from him since election night? On the other hand, many top Liberals are calling for his resignation. The guy must be in quite a turmoil.

Apparently Dion still has some debts from that leadership race. There is speculation that he might try to get that paid for in exchange for stepping down.

[Bryan]

Mr. Dion is still waiting for a sign that Canadians love him as much as he loves Canada. He really doesn't believe the election results.

So what's he going to say at the press conference Monday?

"Can we start again?" :lol: :lol:

[capricorn]

Apparently Dion still has some debts from that leadership race. There is speculation that he might try to get that paid for in exchange for stepping down.

How many piggy banks will the Liberals have to raid to come up with $200K and how much longer will it take?

[Mr.Canada]

Mr. Dion is still waiting for a sign that Canadians love him as much as he loves Canada. He really doesn't believe the election results.

Mr. Dion is really puzzled by the fact that Canadians aren't responding to him. It is really quite beyond him and his reasoning.

@ jdobbin, unless another Liberal "Adscam" or some other Liberal scam surfaces. Otherwise it's not good politics for our PM to call an election too soon.

[jdobbin]

Yes I think it was on MDuffy. And today I saw from the streaming news that senior Liberal MP is asking Dion to give a signal as to his intention tomorrow. So it seems that they are not exactly sure what to expect from Dion tomorrow.

And yet CTV says that senior Liberals are saying the news conference will be Dion's announcement that he is stepping down.

[betsy]

How many piggy banks will the Liberals have to raid to come up with $200K and how much longer will it take?

But I can't help but wonder if it cost so much to run in the race....why are they so eager to do it?

It must be lucrative I guess....I'm being cynical but I can't help it. Not after seeing those past corruptions.

[betsy]

And yet CTV says that senior Liberals are saying the news conference will be Dion's announcement that he is stepping down.

Maybe the news stream I saw was old.

[Mr.Canada]

The longer he stays on the better it is for our PM, Stephan Harper.

It must be great for the other parties to have a lame duck leader running the official opposition.

Edited October 19, 2008 by Mr.Canada

[jdobbin]

Yes. Some MPs like Leblanc came on Question Period today and rebuked those MPs who wrote anonymous letters telling Dion to step down. He said he supports Dion in his decision. And if I'm not mistaken, McCallum said that too. Justin Trudeau says Dion should be let to decide without any pressure. Volpe is the first one to go public urging Dion to resign.

Well....looks like war is now in full rage inside that party.

I think that any leader should wait a few days after an election defeat to decide what is best for them and for the party. Volpe spoke far too soon on the issue. Anonymous critics high up in the party are the worst.

I don't think Dion should continue as leader but then I'm not a MP and don't have the opportunity to speak to the man in caucus like they can. They have the luxury of privacy to go over the reasons for the loss, the strategy that comes next and if they think the leader should step down. Ordinary people can't do that so when a MP like Volpe gets on the horn, it is grandstanding.

[jdobbin]

@ jdobbin, unless another Liberal "Adscam" or some other Liberal scam surfaces. Otherwise it's not good politics for our PM to call an election too soon.

It might be bad politics for him to wait to go down in a confidence vote with a new Liberal leader.

[jdobbin]

The longer he stays on the better it is for our PM, Stephan Harper.

Seriously? If a recession takes hold and Harper is in while deficits are produced, I think it doesn't necessarily translate into huge majority support.

It must be great for the other parties to have a lame duck leader running the official opposition.

If the Liberals have a new leader in six months, the opportunity to go to an election with an interim leader disappears.

[Mr.Canada]

Seriously? If a recession takes hold and Harper is in while deficits are produced, I think it doesn't necessarily translate into huge majority support.

If the Liberals have a new leader in six months, the opportunity to go to an election with an interim leader disappears.

jdobbin, you know as well as I do that the economic troubles are a world crisis and not made in Canada. Canada has very little influence economically to turn around a world slowdown. Not our PM's fault at all for things out of his control and you know it.

Our PM will not call an election within the first 2 years. I don't know why you keep saying this. You say this at least 3 times a day on this board. Maybe you're trying to start a rumor so it will get news play. It would be suicide and our PM would lose seats.

[William Ashley]

jdobbin, you know as well as I do that the economic troubles are a world crisis and not made in Canada. Canada has very little influence economically to turn around a world slowdown. Not our PM's fault at all for things out of his control and you know it.

Our PM will not call an election within the first 2 years. I don't know why you keep saying this. You say this at least 3 times a day on this board. Maybe you're trying to start a rumor so it will get news play. It would be suicide and our PM would lose seats.

Apparently Dion isn't interested in resigning. If so the fact he has a debt of about $200,000 he needs to pay off.

Would another quick election have the same results, or would people choose to vote for their second choice? To knock out some of the close contests?

Anyway.. it seems inevitable, but I don't really see the reason why only 1 person can be party leader, is a vice chief of opposition not OK, plus the guy is gonna have to move and stuff, which will take time to organize if so.

Or what is the result of a non confidence vote? Would the govenor general offer the PMship to Dion or Ducceppe or Layton? Would the parties agree to an alternate with Dion at the helm? etc..

all the options are not locked into supporting the government.. if the opposition isn't happy they can knock this back into determination zone. It is a minority and the opposition does have the power to throw the government out, if the govenor general agrees.

Nothing would illicit the brain dead population to get out and vote more than monthly elections. Give the polliticians time to really show face and what their intentions are.

Edited October 20, 2008 by William Ashley

[jdobbin]

jdobbin, you know as well as I do that the economic troubles are a world crisis and not made in Canada. Canada has very little influence economically to turn around a world slowdown. Not our PM's fault at all for things out of his control and you know it.

If he runs a deficit, it won't matter how it happened only that it happened on his watch. It wouldn't matter what party was in power: they'd have a lot to answer for.

Our PM will not call an election within the first 2 years. I don't know why you keep saying this. You say this at least 3 times a day on this board. Maybe you're trying to start a rumor so it will get news play. It would be suicide and our PM would lose seats.

I was ridiculed when I said that Harper would call an election before the fixed elections. I wasn't making a rumour then. Go back to 2006 and look what I was saying: I said that the fixed election date was not a great thing for a responsible government system.

A five year mandate to call an election was already in place and there was a number of mechanisms for the government and the Opposition to go to an election. The system also had the safeguard of the Governor General accepting or proposing a number of alternatives. A hard line fixed election date, in my opinion, took away any advantage for the government while keeping it in place for the Opposition. It was untenable. Looking at the legislation, I said that it was written to let Harper declare any matter a matter of confidence and go to an election without a vote in the House. I was right.

You say it is suicide for Harper to go an election in the next six months. Sadly for him, it may not get any better for him waiting for the Liberals to get stronger. It may not get any better for him on the economic front.

If he can find a way to blame the Liberals and go early, he will try. He will goad them into a confidence vote and perhaps play the brinkmanship angle by saying no amendments, no changes, every vote a confidence vote. The Liberals ought to prepare to go if the Tories decide to play that game, especially if the bill is against everything the Liberals believe in. Any interim leader will have to prepare to blame Harper personally for any brinkmanship on non-economic bills.

The best strategy for the Liberals is to say they were willing to work with the Tories during the crisis and see if Harper rejects that in favour of going for the throat. The minute he starts using the "not a leader" and taunting about that support, that's when the Liberals start dragging their heels. They can take a page or two out of the Harper book on how to delay Parliament. Let Harper call the vote if he wants to play it like that.

The Liberals are extremely vulnerable until the new leader is in place. I can't for a minute believe Harper wants to face off against someone stronger than Dion in a volatile economic situation where a deficit might be present.

[cybercoma]

There will be all kinds of confidence votes going forward, forcing Conservative MPs to tow the line and the Liberals to abstain from voting if the NDP and Bloc vote against the government. There will be gridlock in the house again and another election will be called. With the Liberal government in shambles and no other party with sound policies worth voting for, the Conservatives will get their majority.

[Mr.Canada]

Ok, I understand what you are saying jdobbin and you make some interesting points in the second half, however...

The same things were being said two years ago, after ADscam and the RCMP things surfaced. Just wait for the Liberals to get stronger etc. Well two years have passed and they are weaker. I have no reason to believe, nor have they given us any reason to believe that this will change anytime soon. In fact, just the opposite is being revealed.

The LPC has so much infighting that they seem incapable of running their own party never mind a country. Just sounds like wishful thinking to me, as it were.

Mr. Harper will push through whatever he wants for a while in terms of new legislation before he has to calm down a little. How much depends on the Liberals.

Mr. Dions press meeting is soon, perhaps we will get some new things to discuss.