Kitch Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 This is so true. Why do you think Obama has so much support? It's the "cool" thing to do.It's a sad state of affairs when people know more about American Idol than what actually happens in our country. Being a former member of the Liberal Party of Canada, I now often wonder how anyone could vote Liberal or NDP. A couple years ago a news team interviewed prisoners in a MAx. security prison and ask them who they are voting for. Each and every one of them said Liberal or NDP. That spoke volumes to me. QUOTE(Slim MacSquinty @ Oct 7 2008, 04:11 PM) * This thread is truly hilarious, being anti Harper is like a grade school clique, you join the group, you feel comfortable but you have no idea why. Frightening, but funny. All of these quasi-convos about the two parties are childish. Why is it that it's clique to be against a right wing politician? Why can't (maaaaaany) conservatives accept that people have different priorities? Again, reasonable and intelligent people can and do reach very different conclusions given the same information... but according to some people, if you don't reach similar conclusions to their own, you're inferior in your capacity to comprehend the world! It's like calling somebody stupid because they like sausage on pizza instead of pepperoni. Better still, it's like calling some one stupid if they don't like pizza! Quote
BC_chick Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 (edited) On economics, Bush has consistently run huge deficits. Harper has always hated deficit spending. Their trickle-down economics is the same, it just so happens that Bush got himself in a financial quagmire because of Iraq. I'd like to remind you here that if Harper had been PM in 2003, we'd be in Iraq as well. On morality, both are against criminals and in favour of strong punishment but that's hardly a unique view to conservatives of any stripe. Exactly. On foreign policy Harper has not really enunciated a clear policy other than supporting Israel. But you could probably compare his overall beliefs with any conservative leader in Europe or elsewhere and find they're pretty much alike. Well, since Harper became leader of the CPC, there's only been two issues where America disagreed with Europeans (both cases the UK being the only exception where they were in line with the US more so than their European counterparts). Those two instances were Iraq in 03, and Israel/Lebanon in 06. Guess where Harper stood on both. You're selecting Bush - who is a pretty piss-poor example of a conservative of any stripe - because you hate him and so are looking for similarities to Harper. But other than Bush's party somewhat favouring traditional conservative religious beliefs on morality there really isn't all that much there. Bush is not a piss-poor example of a conservative, he's your typical uncompromising, tough-talking conservative..... whose big tough-talking conservative plan didn't go as planned and he is paying the price. Had Iraq turned out differently, all you conservatives would be hailing him a hero and history books would be much kinder to him. Had we not been fortunate enough to have Chretien PM in 03... things would be much different now for us as well. You're basically giving Harper the credit that's owed to Chretien. So let's summarise here, I named four issues which I claimed are similar between W and Harper - foreign-policy, morality and crime, economic, as well as the environment. On foreign-policy, you tried to claim Harper's more in line with europeans without elaborating. I disagreed and provided examples. On crime and morality you agreed they are similar. On economic issues, we've established that they believe in the same principles, it just so happens that Bush's Achilles heel was his foreign policy (with which Harper agreed at the time). And the environment, you ignored completely. I could probably, btw, find more similarities between Layton and Castro. Does that make them two of a kind? Bush and Harper are both conservative. Layton is a socialist while Castro is a dictator and a communist. Go ahead, this should be interesting. Edited October 10, 2008 by BC_chick Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Hcheh Posted October 10, 2008 Author Report Posted October 10, 2008 This is so true. Why do you think Obama has so much support? It's the "cool" thing to do.It's a sad state of affairs when people know more about American Idol than what actually happens in our country. Being a former member of the Liberal Party of Canada, I now often wonder how anyone could vote Liberal or NDP. A couple years ago a news team interviewed prisoners in a MAx. security prison and ask them who they are voting for. Each and every one of them said Liberal or NDP. That spoke volumes to me. Oh please, would you rather take Sarah Palin seriously? You really want to talk about gimmicky candidates? Man, I am glad that I am in Canada, not having to deal with that mess.. However, if you have seen Palin talk about Russia in an interview, we might as well be afraid.. Quote
Argus Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 Remember Harper, Help us make him History for what he is doing to our country and its people, read my views, it might be a bit harsh but it is the truth (Not for the sensitives) here:Visit My Website Why don't you shove your dumbass web site. It reads like something from the tinfoil hat set and I'm tired of seeing you posting about it all over every damned thread. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 Their trickle-down economics is the same, it just so happens that Bush got himself in a financial quagmire because of Iraq. That's a common misconception people have who don't read much. The Americans' budgetary problems have nothing really to do with Iraq. They're related to some very poorly thought-out tax cuts Bush made. Remember that this is a nation which, when smaller in size, managed to keep 500,000 troops in Vietnam for a decade without much difficulty. Well, since Harper became leader of the CPC, there's only been two issues where America disagreed with Europeans (both cases the UK being the only exception where they were in line with the US more so than their European counterparts). Those two instances were Iraq in 03, and Israel/Lebanon in 06. Guess where Harper stood on both. And Australia as well. Have you paused to consider that perhaps the English speaking world has a somewhat shared culture and tends to have similar beliefs and a similar mentality on certain world issues? Bush is not a piss-poor example of a conservative, he's your typical uncompromising, tough-talking conservative....If he was, then he would have been cutting spending and making sure his fiscal house was in order, not running massive deficits year after year. Had we not been fortunate enough to have Chretien PM in 03... things would be much different now for us as well. You're basically giving Harper the credit that's owed to Chretien. Why do you think things would be much different? Australia, as you've noted, sent troops to Iraq. And, as I've noted, they suffered few casualties and returned home two years later. Seems to me Australia did better than we did. So let's summarise here, I named four issues which I claimed are similar between W and Harper - foreign-policy, morality and crime, economic, as well as the environment. Actually, what you did was to suggest that because Bush's government is conservative, and Harper is conservative, they must be the same. Then you cited some fairly standard conservative beliefs to prove this. You ignored the fact that other conservatives share the same beliefs because that complicates things for you. Most conservatives in almost every country, for example, believe in a strong military and in strong punishment for criminals. Most conservatives in almost every country, frown on sexual behaviour which is anything beyond the norm. And most conservatives, in almost every western country, have pretty much the same philosophies on foreign politics. What you're really saying is that because Bush is a conservative - of whatever variety - and Harper is a conservative, even of a different variety. They are identical. You could as easily compare Harper to Howard in Australia, but that wouldn't serve your purpose. You could likewise compare him to other conservative leaders in other European countries, but again, that's not the point you want to be making. You want to tar him with the BushClone brush because it makes you feel more righteous in your dislike for him. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Kitch Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 That's a common misconception people have who don't read much. The Americans' budgetary problems have nothing really to do with Iraq. They're related to some very poorly thought-out tax cuts Bush made. Remember that this is a nation which, when smaller in size, managed to keep 500,000 troops in Vietnam for a decade without much difficulty. Does the cost of the weapons used today compare to those of the 60s and 70s? I'm not well read on this but the dollar figures per month that are published about the cost of America's war in Iraq are pretty large! Quote
cybercoma Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 It will be too late? You make it sound like banning abortion is irreversible. Even if he were to do that, and the SC didn't frown on it, if he was thrown out next election the next government would simply reverse it. I'm not sure what other horrible conservative laws you think he might put in place but don't think anything he could possibly do would be "too late" by next election, to reverse.I didn't say the following government couldn't reverse it. Maybe saying, "it'll be too late", was too ambiguous. If a Conservative majority bans abortion, bans gay marriage and institutes capital punishment, then we'll have to deal with that for four years until the following government can reverse those decisions. Those are the most extreme of examples one can use, it's highly unlikely they would do those things, but there could be smaller steps taken towards social conservatism that would set our relatively progressive society back decades.Regardless, I don't feel that will happen and that's why I support Harper and the current Conservative Party. I'm just bringing it up because that is the one thing that concerns me about Stephen Harper and that's what the thread is about. Quote
Argus Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 Does the cost of the weapons used today compare to those of the 60s and 70s? I'm not well read on this but the dollar figures per month that are published about the cost of America's war in Iraq are pretty large! The cost of the weapons today is greater, but the biggest cost factor for Western militaries is salaries and benefits, which tend to be fairly generous. The US population has grown by almost a third since Vietnam days. But they have less than a third as many troops in Iraq as they had in Vietnam. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
noahbody Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 If a Conservative majority bans abortion, bans gay marriage and institutes capital punishment, then we'll have to deal with that for four years until the following government can reverse those decisions. Do you actually think the majority of MPs will vote to lose their cushy jobs and guarantee their party is out of power for years? My favourite fear is capital punishment. How many people would bringing that in for one term kill: 0. Quote
Vancouver King Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 I didn't say the following government couldn't reverse it. Maybe saying, "it'll be too late", was too ambiguous. If a Conservative majority bans abortion, bans gay marriage and institutes capital punishment, then we'll have to deal with that for four years until the following government can reverse those decisions. Those are the most extreme of examples one can use, it's highly unlikely they would do those things, but there could be smaller steps taken towards social conservatism that would set our relatively progressive society back decades.Regardless, I don't feel that will happen and that's why I support Harper and the current Conservative Party. I'm just bringing it up because that is the one thing that concerns me about Stephen Harper and that's what the thread is about. I just love to hear you Conservatives discuss bringing back abortion, homophobia and capital punishment. By all means keep it up from now until Oct. 15th, guests to this forum will get a glimpse of what to expect with a Harper govt. Good work guys! Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
Argus Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 I didn't say the following government couldn't reverse it. Maybe saying, "it'll be too late", was too ambiguous. If a Conservative majority bans abortion, bans gay marriage and institutes capital punishment, then we'll have to deal with that for four years until the following government can reverse those decisions. Those are the most extreme of examples one can use, it's highly unlikely they would do those things, but there could be smaller steps taken towards social conservatism that would set our relatively progressive society back decades. But you don't know what they are or could be. Sorry, I just don't buy it. I can't think of anything they could do in a couple of years that would "set our progressive society back decades" Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cybercoma Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 (edited) Do you actually think the majority of MPs will vote to lose their cushy jobs and guarantee their party is out of power for years? My favourite fear is capital punishment. How many people would bringing that in for one term kill: 0. That's why I said, Those are the most extreme of examples one can use, [so] it's highly unlikely they would do those things Edited October 10, 2008 by cybercoma Quote
cybercoma Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 I just love to hear you Conservatives discuss bringing back abortion, homophobia and capital punishment. By all means keep it up from now until Oct. 15th, guests to this forum will get a glimpse of what to expect with a Harper govt. Good work guys!Are you trolling or do you actually have the reading comprehension of a third grader? Quote
Vancouver King Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 Are you trolling or do you actually have the reading comprehension of a third grader? Is that the best you've got left? Strange, I don't feel deflated... Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
cybercoma Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 But you don't know what they are or could be. Sorry, I just don't buy it. I can't think of anything they could do in a couple of years that would "set our progressive society back decades" Look, Harper is trying to dress himself as a more pragmatic politician. He's trying to keep away from his old social conservative persona. That's the whole deal with "Harper's Secret Agenda". Given a majority government, what will he do? Will he continue to be socially progressive and fiscally conservative or will he take a majority as carte blanche to push forward social conservative legislation? I'm rolling the dice and saying he's NOT going to govern by social conservative ideals and continue to be the responsible leader he has been for the past two years. I hope I'm right because I think he has done a pretty good job so far and I'd hate to see him do anything to jeopardize the growing strength of the Conservative Party. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 Is that the best you've got left? Strange, I don't feel deflated... No one's talking about bringing those things back. They were used an the most extreme example possible. Quote
Vancouver King Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 No one's talking about bringing those things back. They were used an the most extreme example possible. I repeat: Nothing warms my heart more at this point in the campaign than listening to two Tories discussing abortion, etc. Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
cybercoma Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 I repeat: Nothing warms my heart more at this point in the campaign than listening to two Tories discussing abortion, etc. For some reason, I get the feeling the CPC is not right-wing enough for Argus. Quote
Vancouver King Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 For some reason, I get the feeling the CPC is not right-wing enough for Argus. Vlad the Impaler is not right wing enough for Argus. Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
Argus Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 For some reason, I get the feeling the CPC is not right-wing enough for Argus. If I was in compete charge, hmm. First, I'd take health care out of the hands of the provinces. I'd put in place a national health care system modeled on the more successful and cost effective European systems. I would rescind the Bill the Tories and Liberals put in place about ten years back which gave longer and more comprehensive patent protection to drug companies, and with the new slew of generic drugs which would then become legal would negotiate the price of pharmaceuticals downward. I would ban foreign internships in Canadian hospitals to free up more places for Canadians (1/3rd of spaces are now taken by foreign doctors who return home afterward), and offer up special loans and burseries to medical students. I would also raise the rates for general practitioners so we would get more students opting for family medicine. On crime I would eliminate mandatory supervision, and eliminate parole as an automatic entitlement. You'd get out early if you demonstrated genuine reform and remorse and not otherwise. Far more stringent punishments for violent offenders, especially repeat violent offenders, and a crackdown on fraud, which is becoming all too pervasive in light of limited punishments. I would commit to doubling the size of the combat infantry, and increasing funding for the military, including new coastal patrol ships, and those icebreakers Harper said he'd buy but didn't, for the far north. I would cut immigration by about 2/3rds. Arts funding cut by half. A complete reexamination of corporate welfare with an eye to removing subsidies for inefficient and outmoded industries (once the current kerfuffle has passed). Oh, and shoot all the commies and fags, of course. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 (edited) Vlad the Impaler is not right wing enough for Argus. That'd kind of hurt my feelings if it wasn't coming from a wack job. Edited October 10, 2008 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Vancouver King Posted October 10, 2008 Report Posted October 10, 2008 That'd kind of hurt my feelings if it wasn't coming from a wack job. Just playing a little pin the tail on the dinosaur - don't take it personally. Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
Argus Posted October 11, 2008 Report Posted October 11, 2008 Just playing a little pin the tail on the dinosaur - don't take it personally. I don't. I'm not calling you a wack job because of that post. I've thought you were a wack job for quite some time now. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Vancouver King Posted October 11, 2008 Report Posted October 11, 2008 I don't. I'm not calling you a wack job because of that post. I've thought you were a wack job for quite some time now. Rest assured coming from you, I will wear that smear like a badge of honor. Mortgaged your bungalow yet? Quote When the people have no tyrant, their public opinion becomes one. ...... Lord Lytton
edmontonsoap Posted October 15, 2008 Report Posted October 15, 2008 Hello everyone I'm new to the forums. I know this topic is lame to most and old but I just had to put my 2cents in. Out of all the harper bashing I have read not one person mentioned his uterly retarded drug policy. I mean seriously war on drugs in 2008? Really? Harper must be kidding or maybe dropped when he was young. He is pushing to do US style mandatory minimums for non violient drug crime? Maybe he is doing it because it solved the drug problem in the US over the odd 20 or so years the have had these standards. Oh ya I forgot the drug problem hasn't gone away and in fact has gotten worse. The funding for it all has gone through the roof. Wanna know the best thing about US drug policy and it's mandatory sentancing? 1 out of every 100 Americans are in jail or under supervision of some sort. The numbers are far worse if you factor in age, race or gender Who's gonna pay for all of this? And someone mentioned earlier that he has cut taxes but who's tax is he cutting? Not mine that's for sure. Quote
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