The major parties on the economy

[Argus]

Mr. Jack Layton:

I hate businesses. I especially hate businesses that make money. The larger they are, the more money they make, the more I hate their guts. I want to tax them into the ground and make it as difficult to operate in Canada as possible. I'll bring in laws to strengthen unions and jack up minimum wages. I'll bring in stringent new anti-pollution laws which fine companies who put out CO2. The bigger the company, the more they produce, the higher our taxes on them will be. Hopefully we can drive them all out of business, and get Canada back to the peaceful, rural collective system that works so well in North Korea. We will be protecting mortgages and bank deposits because they're already protected so it will be a real easy promise to fulfill!

Mr. Stephan Dion:

I am of being da business guy who loves da money of being of profits in da industry for sure to good being well! I am being of helping business to cutting back of their pollution by putting taxing on them for every ting dey doing! I tax mines because dey being polluting! I tax da oil stuff in halberta because they making of the big polution, even though dey paying billions in taxes. I tax da factory and farmer and everyone else. I increasing da price for d'electricity except in Quebec, and da cost of moving da stuff on da roads! I tax peoples for heating of their homes too much! I have da plan! I am being calling a meeting for sure right after I am being voted as premier ministre and I asking people hey, people, what is it I am to be doing? And then I am being doing something!

Mr. Stephen Harper.

Well, as you know, economists and most of the western world have come to realize that the best way to stimulate economic growth is by implementing corporate tax cuts. Most European countries have now lowered their combined corporate tax rates into the middle to upper teens while ours is still much higher. My government, anticipating the problems of a slowing economy, has already implemented a series of tax cuts in this direction, and more are planned in order to bring our corporate tax rates down and in line with our competitors. These are the tax cuts Jack Layton is always complaining about. We've banned no deposit mortgages, and are consulting with the provinces in order to establish national regulations and standards over securities exchanges. Our economy, on the whole, is much healthier and in better condition than the Americans, and we will be making adjustments, here and there, as the need arises. However, there are limits to what a government can do.

[jdobbin]

Mr. Stephen Harper.

However, there are limits to what a government can do.

The one thing Harper can do is stop spending like it is going out of style.

According to the CTF:

http://www.taxpayer.com/main/news.php?news_id=2960

Government spending, however, is another story. Voters were initially assured a Conservative government would be fiscally responsible. They have instead been reckless by embarking on a spending binge that hamstrings their ability to lower personal income taxes and reduce debt in the future. They have even managed to best Liberal Paul Martin's spending levels.

While in office, Mr. Martin grew Ottawa by 14% over two years. The first two Conservative budgets increased the size of the federal government by 14.8%. This makes the Conservatives even bigger spenders. While the 2008 budget promised to moderate spending growth to 3.4% this fiscal year, it seems bribing voters with their own money remains a higher calling. The department of finance reported last month that expenditure receipts swelled an eye-popping 8.4% in the first three months of the year. This is two-and-a-half times the 2008 budget plan.

Although they continue to claim they will hit their 3.4% expenditure target, the Conservatives have proven throughout their term in office that they cannot control spending. Consider the government's first budget. It called for Ottawa's expenditures to grow by 5.4% in fiscal 2006/07. At the end of that year government receipts had jumped by 7.5%. The 2007 budget plan announced an additional 5.6% spending hike. The real amount in 2007/08 was a 6.9% increase. So much for responsible budgeting.

[Slim MacSquinty]

Ask yourself what was the basis of the spending increase? What Harper has done is taken a huge step toward appeasing the province through federal transfers which formed the downloading which the Liberals used to balance their budgets.

Harper didn't invent a bunch of social programs to "bribe" you with your own money, he set the transfers back to where they should be.

[jdobbin]

Ask yourself what was the basis of the spending increase? What Harper has done is taken a huge step toward appeasing the province through federal transfers which formed the downloading which the Liberals used to balance their budgets.

Harper didn't invent a bunch of social programs to "bribe" you with your own money, he set the transfers back to where they should be.

If transfers accounted for all that spending you might be right. The spending has been across the board including double digit increases to the arts.

[DrGreenthumb]

Mr Harper: I think we should continue spending more than we take in in taxes, then cut social programs like culture, ands arts to finance 50 billion dollar gifts to Exxon and the banks. We will then cut even more social programs so that we can give more money to priovate companies so they can build more jails for Canadian children. We think that since EXXON and the BANKS feel the need to GOUGE Canadians with ridiculously high fees and gas prices, and are only able to give paltry 10 million dollar a year bonus's to their executives, they MUST need an additional 50 billion dollars of taxpayers money just to make ends meet. We have to take care of our poor banks and oil companies, to give them a hand up, not a hand out.

Mr Dion: The green shift will put more money in the pockets of ordinary Canadians on every paycheck so they can afford to pay the huge gouging prices the banks and oil companies charge. Of course we will still give the banks and oil companies 50 billion like the cons to offset the extra money they will have to pay in carbon taxes.

Mr Layton: The banks and oil companies are hugely profitable as we can see by the ridiculously huge bonus's paid to execs, and the record profits they post year after year. We think that everyday working Canadians need that 50 billion dollars a lot more than millionaire bankers and oil companies do. Giving the money to the middle class and the poor is a lot smarter and more fair, and will stimulate the economy a lot better as the money will get spent and go back into the economy instead of into the already bloated savings accounts of the already wealthy. Isn't it time to elect a government that represents ordinary Canadians interests instead of the interests of the wealthiest 10% of Canadians? Of course the rich will use their media outlets to try and convince us that we must continue electing governments that serve the interests of the very rich instead of electing an NDP government that will represent the 90% of Canadians who are not already wealthy. Don't let them convince you that we can't elect an NDP government and take that 50 billion dollars back from the rich bankers and oil companies and put it back in the pockets of ordinary Canadians.

[Argus]

The one thing Harper can do is stop spending like it is going out of style.

Harper's election promises to date are something like three billion, Dion's promises, something like 80 billion.

You're not one to talk.

[Argus]

Mr Harper: I think we should continue spending more than we take in in taxes,

You must be smoking something funny there, Weeds, as we're not doing that.

then cut social programs like culture, ands arts to finance 50 billion dollar gifts to Exxon and the banks

.

Sigh. The ignorance of the Left. And people wonder why I'm derisive towards them. They're all so filled with loathing for Harper and the conservatives, but none of them even know what Harper has done or will do or why, know nothing about the other party's platforms, or basic economics, and have no interest in putting the time in to learn.

Look at the socialist governments in Europe. They have drastically cut corporate taxes, and it's not because they're a bunch of nasty, bank loving right wingers. It's because that stimulates the economy and promotes job creation - which is where taxes come from.

Mr Layton: The banks and oil companies are hugely profitable as we can see by the ridiculously huge bonus's paid to execs, and the record profits they post year after year. We think that everyday working Canadians need that 50 billion dollars a lot more than millionaire bankers and oil companies do.

The politics of resentment, the politics of envy. "They have more than me! Take it away! Make them give it to me!

Yes, let's make it much less profitable to do business in Canada. THAT'LL stimulate job growth and get industry to expand for sure!

[Bryan]

Mr. Stephen Harper.

Well, as you know, economists and most of the western world have come to realize that the best way to stimulate economic growth is by implementing corporate tax cuts. Most European countries have now lowered their combined corporate tax rates into the middle to upper teens while ours is still much higher. My government, anticipating the problems of a slowing economy, has already implemented a series of tax cuts in this direction, and more are planned in order to bring our corporate tax rates down and in line with our competitors. These are the tax cuts Jack Layton is always complaining about. We've banned no deposit mortgages, and are consulting with the provinces in order to establish national regulations and standards over securities exchanges. Our economy, on the whole, is much healthier and in better condition than the Americans, and we will be making adjustments, here and there, as the need arises. However, there are limits to what a government can do.

This is a very good representation of Harpers plan. It always makes me wonder just how dumb the left really is when their leaders made up a ridiculous boogeyman that has nothing to do with what Harper is doing at all, and then make all their judgements against that fictional representation.

[jdobbin]

Harper's election promises to date are something like three billion, Dion's promises, something like 80 billion.

You're not one to talk.

There was $20 billion of spending before the election, much of it on an annual basis.

The Liberals have made some huge spending promises. Many are year over year spending so that $80 billion is not an annual number.

Over a 5 year period, the Liberal and Tory spending is pretty close. Not happy it about from either party but then I don't think the Liberals will win. The Tory spending has leaped past spending from 2001 to 2006 as the CTF clearly shows.

[TCCK]

Holy Crap ARGUS summed it all up perfectly and still you people argue and defend the other idiots positions blindly and no nothing about running a large business called CANADA.

Running a country is like running a business. Somethings cost money (welfare, healthcare) and you so mo tangable payback for them but they do bring payback, put too much money into them and you WILL BANKRUPT your company. Other times you must make cuts, you have to spend in areas that will in return easily bring you profits.

And like he mentions it is a very well knon fact that if you cut corporate taxes the companies will make more money, hire more people, give raises, donate more money to local charities (so the government does not need to do it at a cost of 3-1 over corporate dollars).

Layton will spend up into a socialist state that bankrupts itself. Plus all he wants to do is tax the crap out of any business in Canada that is making money and give it all to the government to spend on social programs at a cost 3 times higher than if the companies donated the money to the charities to do it. Then those businesses will get sick and tired of his tax'em to death plan and move south the the USA so when send more money into the US economy. (think that is a lie, look at when Trudeau was in power and see how many Large Canadian companies moved heaquarters inot the USA!!)

Then only Stephan "I don't have a freakin clue" Dion gets into power he will start pouring out new laws out his butt so fast we will all have our heads spinning and have to carry around a notebook to checkup on the Gov. of Cananda website the new law of the hour to see if exhaling is now illegal or if we can no longer use toilet paper but have to use our left hand again as it is more Eco=friendly. Then when the next wave of fear mongering starts say on "Fish are trying to take over the world" Dion will be there to fire out hundreds of new las forcing every Canadian to kill 5 fish a day to defend our nation. He plays into the hands of the fear mongerer perfectly. He also does not say it but he will like every other French Liberal piss off Quebec while handing them billion of dollars in freebies no other province gets and it will start a hole new seperation movement thus wasting more tax dollars.

He has no clue how to run the country.

The Green party well they will take the whole first day trying to hotbox the legislature room, then they will work blindingly fast at turning this country into a modern day Ice Age by banning anything that gives off CO2 including home heating. (Ok that is a slight exaggeration but you get the hint. HUG A TREE!)

Christian Heritage Party for those of us out West. OMG where dc I start, the inquistion sounds familiar. Enough said!

[guyser]

He also does not say it but he will like every other French Liberal piss off Quebec while handing them billion of dollars in freebies no other province gets and it will start a hole new seperation movement thus wasting more tax dollars.

LOL!

YOu really need to keep up. The kool aid you're drinking is past its expiry date .

[Moonbox]

There was $20 billion of spending before the election, much of it on an annual basis.

The Liberals have made some huge spending promises. Many are year over year spending so that $80 billion is not an annual number.

Over a 5 year period, the Liberal and Tory spending is pretty close. Not happy it about from either party but then I don't think the Liberals will win. The Tory spending has leaped past spending from 2001 to 2006 as the CTF clearly shows.

I actually read that as well and I'm pretty sure the CTF didn't say Harper's spending leaped past 2001 and 2006 levels.

It said that he went over budget twice and that government spending increased at almost EXACTLY the same rate as under the Martin Liberals.

Also, the CTF certainly didn't endorse the other parties. In fact, its criticism of the Liberal Party was scathing:

"Mr. Dion will instead levy a $15-billion carbon tax on traditional energy sources. The revenue will be used to lower personal and business income taxes by $9.5-billion. Low-income families will receive payments totaling $4.5-billion and the remaining $1-billion spent on research and development. In other words, for every $2 in income tax relief there will be $3 in additional taxes and another $1 in spending. This plan will grow the size of government, drain more resources from the economy, and make middle-class families poorer."

Jdobbin, some of your points are indisputable. I can't argue that Harper isn't spending over budget. I can't argue that he's probably spending more than I would like him to. What I've been arguing all along is that the other parties, specifically the Liberals, are going to be spending WAY MORE than the Tories and that we'll all have LESS money in our wallets after they're done. The CTF, which you just referenced, confirms this.

[WIP]

You must be smoking something funny there, Weeds, as we're not doing that.

.

Sigh. The ignorance of the Left. And people wonder why I'm derisive towards them. They're all so filled with loathing for Harper and the conservatives, but none of them even know what Harper has done or will do or why, know nothing about the other party's platforms, or basic economics, and have no interest in putting the time in to learn.

Look at the socialist governments in Europe. They have drastically cut corporate taxes, and it's not because they're a bunch of nasty, bank loving right wingers. It's because that stimulates the economy and promotes job creation - which is where taxes come from.

The politics of resentment, the politics of envy. "They have more than me! Take it away! Make them give it to me!

Yes, let's make it much less profitable to do business in Canada. THAT'LL stimulate job growth and get industry to expand for sure!

As a general principle, I prefer to keep the government out of the business of trying to create "fairness" and equalize incomes, but corporate tax cuts are not going to be accepted by the majority of people if the gap between rich and poor keeps growing. I haven't checked the numbers, so I don't think we are in quite as bad a situation as the U.S., where the growth in GDP has totally bypassed everyone from the middleclass down; but nevertheless, hard times makes people start thinking socialism and resenting the concept of the people at the top getting richer.

I'm a little worried about how the situation south of the border (especially if McCain actually wins) is going to develop, as people (many of whom are gun owners) lose their jobs, go bankrupt and lose their houses, and watch some dick sitting in front of a Senate panel trying to justify the near half a billion he walked away with after the collapse of the company he was in charge of! Like it or not, class resentment and class warfare will result when they see the people at the top getting richer at their expense, and they start determining (fairly or unfairly) that their opportunities for advancement are being closed off.

[Moonbox]

As a general principle, I prefer to keep the government out of the business of trying to create "fairness" and equalize incomes, but corporate tax cuts are not going to be accepted by the majority of people if the gap between rich and poor keeps growing. I haven't checked the numbers, so I don't think we are in quite as bad a situation as the U.S., where the growth in GDP has totally bypassed everyone from the middleclass down; but nevertheless, hard times makes people start thinking socialism and resenting the concept of the people at the top getting richer.

I'm a little worried about how the situation south of the border (especially if McCain actually wins) is going to develop, as people (many of whom are gun owners) lose their jobs, go bankrupt and lose their houses, and watch some dick sitting in front of a Senate panel trying to justify the near half a billion he walked away with after the collapse of the company he was in charge of! Like it or not, class resentment and class warfare will result when they see the people at the top getting richer at their expense, and they start determining (fairly or unfairly) that their opportunities for advancement are being closed off.

I think this is a pretty good post.

I think corporate tax cuts are good in that they DO encourage business. Any government, whether NDP, Liberal or whoever that is looking to increase them is nuts.

On the other hand, WIP is right in that the income disparity in Canada is getting absurd and the middle and poorer classes need to be protected from exploitive corporations. The only way to do this is put up trade barriers and prevent companies from manufacturing everything in China and Mexico where these countries enjoy completely unfair advantages.

I'm all for Free Trade as long as it's fair. Trade with most of the rest of the world, however, is not in the least bit fair. Having our steel and everything else manufactured in China ultimately does a lot more good to shareholders than it does to the rest of Canada.