Liberals give the boot to another racist candidate

[Argus]

I think it's a pretty ridiculous to immediately scream "anti-semite" whenever someone mentions the fact that some people (some of whom came from Israel, others from Germany, others from Russia) appeared to have advance information about 9/11 (and even warned the U.S. government about it).

Is it political correctness run amuck, or just a desire to shut down the debate before it happens?

The smear has long been that no Jew died on 911, because although thousands of Jews worked in and around the WTC they all "got the word" in advance, and stayed home that day. If that isn't anti-Semitic then what the hell is it?

[Argus]

I was actually pretty impressed with how Dion handled this, he fired his candidate when her racism became apparent. What does it say about Harper and the conservatives that when his candidate in Calgary centre suggests that immigrants are the cause of crime, and Harper condones it?

That they're smarter than you. In fact, the candidate was specifically referring to street gangs, virtually all of whom are ethnic in origin. Even Macleans magazine had to admit that 95% of the gunplay in Toronto was coming from Jamaicans. Richardson, incidentally, is no arch conservative. He's what used to be called a red tory, very touchie-feelie about social issues too.

[Argus]

Lesley Hughes is not racist.

Whether she's a bigot or not she's a wingnut to believe in that 911 conspiracy bullshit.

[scribblet]

Anyone keeping score, here's another one.

Layton says he can stay on cos he's apologized... now who's head where they screaming for a while ago even tho the guy apologized - guess it's only bad when a conservative says something.

http://www.torontosun.com/canadavotes/news...907996-sun.html

Even though his online posts call an activist a "fascist b----," the NDP is standing by their man in Durham.

That isn't stopping the Liberals -- who polls indicate are losing ground to the NDP across Canada -- from continuing calls for Durham NDP candidate Andrew McKeever to resign after several rants on Facebook earlier this year against supporters of U.S. soldiers who fled to Canada to avoid the Iraq war.

"So Mr. (Jack) Layton, where do you draw the line on offensive conduct?" stated a Liberal party press release yesterday. "Does Andrew McKeever refect the values and positions of the NDP?"

In an election where online shenanigans have felled candidates from the major parties, the NDP says McKeever can stay on because he apologized for the comments.

An interview request to McKeever was not returned, but Krystalline Kraus, the activist the bulk of the comments were directed towards, called the controversy a "dirty tactic" on the Liberals part.

"If they were so concerned about how I was treated, they would have contacted me first," she said yesterday.

cont..

[Oleg Bach]

Well, no, he made it quite clear that the CJC had wanted him to do it, and so he did it.

Claiming that certain people may have been tipped off somehow is not exactly racist. Israel is in the habit of feeding intelligence about terrorists to the United States, and it is not beyond the realm of possibility that some would have been withheld in order to facilitate the entry of the US into a "war on terror," ie. to give Bush the justification he needed to go to war with Iraq.

Israel is really the old Kingdom of Judea - and there are not many of the Judean lineage left in the area - the Shemites - Arab and so called Jew..are the same tribe - and as far as racism - Muslims and Jews are great and institutionalized racist at their core. As far as Bush going to war in what was old Babylon..where the original Royal family was kidnapped to and returned to Judea as underprivledged men that had to work as carpenters...well - any backing and support of Israel by Bush the nominal and ignorant Christain is a mistake - Israel is a secularist state that dispises the concept of God and goodness - call me racist but this is what I see. Ever since the inception of Israel the so-called Jews have not been able to make friends with their neighbours - IF after all this time they don't have the sense or will to make FRIENDS then to hell with the lazy bums...Some will say that being Jewish is not a race but a state of mind...I really think that this state of mind is one of aggressive stupidity - Time for Israel to become part of the world community and stop looking on others as animals.

[Shakeyhands]

Non-existing KKK burning crosses in British Columbian ridings?

Compares very well to me!

Geeez, you're right, no mention of burning crosses...

http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/proactive_initiati...si/page8-en.asp

Another section 319(2) case to be discussed is what is believed to be the first prosecution in Canada of promotion of hatred on the Internet. The case of R. v. William Patrick Nicholson was decided on July 11, 2002, in the Provincial Court of British Columbia in Merritt, B.C. (Merritt Registry 10621).12

On July 9, 1999, the Merritt RCMP detachment opened a file after finding a business card which stated "New Order Knights of the KKK, Racial purity is Canada’s security" and then provided a box number in Merritt. On August 25, 1999, a member of the B.C. Hate Crimes Team prepared a letter under a fictitious name, asking for more details about the New Order Knights of the KKK. A letter was received with a return address, thanked the writer for his interest, discussed different races and provided a webpage address for e-mails. The letter was signed "Bill Nicholson, Grand Titan, New Order Knight Ku Klux Klan, Empire of Canada." On April 20, 2001, the Merritt RCMP received information that Nicholson possessed several unregistered and restricted weapons including AK-47s. He was also alleged to be in possession of five sticks of dynamite stolen from a break-and-enter in Hinton, Alberta.

As a result of the information, Merritt RCMP and the Vancouver RCMP National Security Investigation Section obtained a search warrant to search his house on April 26, 2001. In addition to the grounds for the weapons, the RCMP felt they had sufficient grounds to obtain a search warrant for his computer to obtain a basis for charges of promoting hate.

As the search was being carried out, authorities spoke to a neighbour,who admitted to being a card-carrying member of the KKK. He produced a passport indicating that he was a Grand Titan of the KKK and advised that Nicholson processed his membership. Inside the house was a computer, which Nicholson’s wife said was hers, and she gave permission for them to seize and search. Pictures were found in the house of Nicholson in KKK regalia.

On May 3, 2001, a set of 12 photos were given to police from a photo clerk at a drugstore which had been copied from a roll processed at the store for Nicholson six months previously. They showed Nicholson and friend in their KKK robes. The clerk, providing an example of the community interest in these issues, thought that the police would be interested in the content of the photos at a later date.

On July 2, 2001, Nicholson pleaded guilty to possession of the weapons and explosive substances. He was sentenced to nine months’ incarceration. At sentencing, it was accepted that his possession of the weapons was coloured by his white supremacist views.

Meanwhile, his computer was sent for examination in Vancouver and a duplicate of the hard drive was made. A single CD was produced containing the images, text documents, web pages, and e-mail in whole or fragmentary form. From that single CD, 422 pages of material were printed. The volume indicates the complexity of computer-related investigations and how much material can be produced from one home computer.

E-mails were found between Nicholson and others which, while "private conversations," at least offered insight into Nicholson’s intent in wilfully promoting hatred in his more public communications.

There were chatroom discussions between small numbers of officers, members or adherents of Nicholson’s groups. The content included such chat as the "best weapon to kill a nigger," and the lack of self-restraint or criticism from others suggested that the access was restricted.

I imagine he may have just been one of those "dark humourists" that seem to be everywhere these days....

Edited September 28, 2008 by Shakeyhands

[Argus]

Geeez, you're right, no mention of burning crosses...

http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/proactive_initiati...si/page8-en.asp

I imagine he may have just been one of those "dark humourists" that seem to be everywhere these days....

Gee, Shakey, I see now the connection between anyone who makes an off-colour joke, and anyone who suggest there might have once been a single immigrant who committed a crime, and the KKK! How could I have been so blind before!? I'm now willing to embrace the political correctness of a true Liberal like you!

[kengs333]

She's running as an Independent.

[capricorn]

She's running as an Independent.

And the voting ballot shows her as a Liberal candidate.

If Hughes runs as an Independent and wins, Levine wonders where that leaves Liberal voters: "Does that mean that the voters who don't really know her but have voted for a Liberal, in effect, lose their vote?"

Elections Canada should have come up with a way to deal with the issue, she said.

Carstairs agrees. "Perhaps Elections Canada has to wait a little bit longer before they make a determination whether ballot paper should be printed," she said, although she acknowledged that could pose a problem, since advance polls open on Friday.

Leanne Nyirfa, regional media spokesperson for Elections Canada, said that from the agency's perspective, the deadline for changes has already passed.

"As far as Elections Canada is concerned, because that change wasn't made [in time], she is a Liberal candidate," she said.

"I guess it would be up to the party to let people know that that's not a person that they're endorsing for their campaign — but again, that's not something that Elections Canada would get into."

----

There's also the question of the $1.75 per vote that federal parties receive if they take more than two per cent of the vote nationally, or at least five per cent in any riding.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2...s-manitoba.html

[Rue]

How many Israelis were killed in the 9/11 attacks on WTC?

When I searched (and that was a long while ago) I found 3 and their names were not Jewish.

How can you blame someone for stating something obvious?

Well leave it to you again to insert your foot in your mouth. The comment she made that is now being questioned is as follows:

“Israeli businesses, which had offices in the Towers, vacated the premises a week before the attacks, breaking their lease to do it. About 3000 Americans working there were not so lucky.”

No the above comment is not obvious nor is it true. In fact it is a classic example of what you are now doing-repeating something and presenting it as “obvious” or a “fact” when it is not either.

First let me try explain to you why the above comment is neither true nor obvious and for that matter neither is your comment that only 3 Jews died in the 9-11 incident.

May I suggest you go to Robert E. Reis’s article at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/31/national...745&ei=5070 entitled, “ How Many Jews Died at the World Trade center on 911 which I will now repeat.

What we do know is the New York Times published 1,800 descriptions of the people who died and the official count is 2,937 although its quite possible others died and were missed in this count.

The above writer in the face of people like you and Ms. Hughes engaging in the comments you did tried to find a way to repudiate such unsubstantiated remarks.

What he did was to take the list of 1,800 people reported in the New York Times as having died in 9-11 which were all substantiated by contacting the relatives was to then engage in a word search using the words Jew, Jewish, Temple, Synagogue, Israel and Mitzvah.

When he then got a list from those 1,800 names he removed individuals incorrectly identified as Jews.

He then searched the list using the terms; Catholic, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu and Muslim.

The then found 250 named victims resulted from using his search terms, i.e. 250 victims out of 1800 were identified by religious affiliation as being Jewish. That means 18% f the named victims were Jews and 82% non Jews.

Try now to multiply 1800 by .18, and see what number you get. You should come up with 324 Jews.

This seems to be close to what the United States Department of State. Reported. The State department reported a total of 2,071 occupants at the WTC who died Sept.11.

On Oct. 11, 2002 the Wall Street Journal reported roughly 1,700 people had listed the religion of a person missing in the WTC attacks of which approximately 10% being ewish.

The Jewish Week, also analyzed the list of names, biographical information compiled by The New York Times, and information from records at the Medical Examiner’s Office, and reported finding at least 400 death victims either confirmed or strongly believed to be Jewish.

What is also known is that a partial list of 390 Cantor Fitzgerald employees who died (out of 658 in the company) listed 49 Jewish memorial services and before you engage in any further comments that 3 Jews died go to http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005.../14-260933.html

Here is the point. Ms. Hughes engaged in unsubstantiated remarks and posed them as facts. The remark’s context necessarily suggests Israelis working in the building were warned of the attacks by Mossad and thus were saved and the words stir up resentment towards these alleged Israelis surviving but the other “3000” dying.

Not only is there absolutely zero proof Mossad knew the WTC would be attacked that day, but to suggest they would engage in a conspiracy only to warn Israelis and let Americans die is absolute bullshit.

More to the point, had you or Ms. Hughes had the decency instead of engaging in unspeculated rumour and conspiracy mongering bothered to find out who actually died you would know the comment you and she made is despicable because it suggests Israel deliberately let humans die including about 300 Jews.

It is precisely because of such unsubstantiated comments by people like you and her they need to be exposed and challenged as bullshit and doing nothing but inciting resentment against not just Israelis but Jews.

I also do not doubt you feel you are not an anti-semite and neither does she. That to me is neither here nor there.

I am sure you and Kengs can explain to us how innocent she is and how she is being picked on.

Me personally I think Dion did the right thing. People who write this kind of piffle and try pass it off as journalism show poor judgement and the kind of defective reasoning process that is precisely what people like you then use to keep spreading nonsense and justify your statements that are not based on fact.

Should she be censored no. It is her opinion. But such opinions have no place in any political party claiming to represent all Canadians.

Yes she should run as an independent. Or maybe you would like to form a political party with her and Keng.

By the way, you will note I do not take a day off for the New Year. I am a Golem. We don't get days off.

[Rue]

Well, no, he made it quite clear that the CJC had wanted him to do it, and so he did it.

Claiming that certain people may have been tipped off somehow is not exactly racist. Israel is in the habit of feeding intelligence about terrorists to the United States, and it is not beyond the realm of possibility that some would have been withheld in order to facilitate the entry of the US into a "war on terror," ie. to give Bush the justification he needed to go to war with Iraq.

Actually once again you make a comment as if it is a fact,. Prove he did what he did because the CJC wanted him to. Did it ever dawn on you Mr. Dion made that decision because he is a principled man and he would have done it had the comments been about Muslims, gays, blacks, women?

As well you once again made a comment about her comments not being racist but you of course quoted the comment no one was questioning. Once again you show you have no clue what the issue is you are talking about.

Why don't you try find out the actual words that are being questioned.

[Rue]

Is that what she claims? I'm under the impression that she only states that some people we tipped off about the attack.

I believe ABC ran a story a few days after the attacks about a group of Israeli citizens who were seen cheering as the the WTC was burning. They were later tracked down to Israel, where they had hastily returned to, where they of course denied their behaviour (despite numerous witnesses) and apparently links to the Israeli secret service.

You believe? Instead of presenting opinions without knowing what she said, how about you try find out what she actually said and what the source of contraversy is. This is precisely why you lack credibility. You inject yourselfs into threads without having a clue what the issue is and stating opinions based on assumptions that have nothing to do with what is at issue.

[Rue]

I think Canadians should be concerned in general. Not only does this raise concerns about freedom of the press, but it also raises questions about the power that certain special interest groups have in influencing or (potential) leaders.

In my opinion, I think the most virulent bigoted opinions in the country are those expressed towards Christians, and my guess is that there are numerous candidates in this election that at one time expressed in printed or spoken word hatred towards Christ, Christians, and the Bible. But the chances of any of these people being exposed and/or "fired" for such conduct is remote to none.

As usual your comments make no sense. It does not raise an issue as to the freedom of the press. No one has said she had no right to write her article nor is anyone trying to censor the article so as usual you completely missed what is being questioned. Its not her right to have an opinion, but the implications as to what she said if she wants to represent the Liberal Party of Canada. No one is saying she is not free to have such opinions what is being said is they are not compatible with the Liberal Party's platform.

As for your assumptions and inference of course that Jews are controlling Canadian politics and have too much power trust me, you are free to run for office with Ms. Hughes, form your own party and have a ridiculous haircut.

As for your trying to turn this into an issue about Christ, as usual you try hijack the thread for your own personal obsession which has nothing to do with the thread.

Go start a thread on how you are persecuted.

Go start a political party. Citizen and Ms. Hughes can join you.

[normanchateau]

But I guess if you're an ignorant liberal bigot who hates Americans and Joooos, you're prepared to accept any kind of wild accusations against them.

Not all anti-Semites are ignorant liberal bigots.

McCain and Sarah Palin for example:

http://thepoorman.net/2008/09/11/mccain-en...ut-anti-semite/

http://richmonddemocrat.blogspot.com/2008/...ti-semitic.html

[M.Dancer]

How many Israelis were killed in the 9/11 attacks on WTC?

When I searched (and that was a long while ago) I found 3 and their names were not Jewish.

How can you blame someone for stating something obvious?

maybe because what seem obvious to some is painly racist crap.

5 israeli citizens were killed. I'm not sure how you can tell a non Jewish Miller from a Jewish Miller but it takes a special kind of nuts to care....

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005.../14-260933.html

[normanchateau]

I think Canadians should be concerned in general. Not only does this raise concerns about freedom of the press, but it also raises questions about the power that certain special interest groups have in influencing or (potential) leaders.

No doubt you are equally concerned about the inability of Western newspapers to publish cartoons depicting Mohammed.

[Slim MacSquinty]

"I'm not sure how you can tell a non Jewish Miller from a Jewish Miller but it takes a special kind of nuts to care.... "

A nugget of wisdom if ever I heard one.

Thanks