Groundwork Guides

[Ontario Loyalist]

Saw something on the CBC the other day about a series of books that are geared towards children, middle school grades I suppose, called Groundwork Guides, published by Groundwood/House of Anansi. Topics include Empire, Being Muslim, Pornography, Sex for Guys, Oil... They are supposed to be "guides" about these issues, a means of helping kids understand and deal with these issues in a manner that isn't preachy but after having looked at a few of these books I'm completely shocked that these books are not only being published but are being used in schools as teaching materials; they are extrememly biased and in some cases essentially little more than propaganda. The book that concerns me most is "Being Muslim" which is written by Haroon Siddiqui... he either ignores or downplays the sordid history of Islam, repeatedly claims that Islam is misunderstood by "western media" and every things is peachy fine for women, calls Europe a "Den of Discrimination". In regards to the Danish cartoon incident, for instance, he complains that the most tragic aspect of the whole matter was the fact that 50 protesters were killed by "anti-riot police" and nobody in Europe cared--they were too concerned about freedom of speech, which he also claims shouldn't apply to these cartoons.

If anyone has kids using these books, I would caution you to read them for yourself and if you find issue with them have a talk with your kids about it.

http://www.groundwoodbooks.com/gw_groundworkguides.cfm

[charter.rights]

re-copied Opening Post deleted by moderator

I wonder. Do the "guides" include the sordid and violent past of the Christian religion? The dark ages, the witch burnings, the pedophilia? Or perhaps it touches on the violent beginnings about how Christians murdered Jesus on the cross or perhaps it describes the ritualized cannibalism or eating Jesus' body and drinking his blood.

Where can I get a copy?

Edited September 5, 2008 by Charles Anthony
deleted quote of Opening Post

[AngusThermopyle]

Where can I get a copy?

You'd like that wouldn't you. More material to help you embellish your usual lies.

[charter.rights]

You'd like that wouldn't you. More material to help you embellish your usual lies.

Are you saying that the witch burnings, the dark ages and pedophilia never happened? You think they are lies?

And of course you were never trained to kill in the armed forces, either.......

[AngusThermopyle]

Are you saying that the witch burnings, the dark ages and pedophilia never happened? You think they are lies?

And of course you were never trained to kill in the armed forces, either.......

Of course they happened, and yes, of course I was, are you that uninformed?

What I object to is your selective knowledge based upon fantasy. In one fell swoop you negate and refuse to acknowledge all the good and even great things accomplished by Europeans and instead only acknowledge the low points. At the same time you make up fantastical lies about how Native cultures never knew war or any other form of atrocity. Thats why when you post just about anything I automatically regard it as being pure nonsense.

Pretty much everything you have to say is unfounded very self serving one sided crap. It appears that you lack an ability to see all sides of an issue.

Really, in another thread you actually claimed that North American Natives were more advanced than the Europeans when they arrived here. Sure, a culture that was stone age, had not invented the wheel, had not developed any form of alphabet, and had no knowledge of animal husbandry not to mention extremely limited agricultural abilities was way more advanced.

This is the kind of stuff that makes anything you post irrelevant and not even worth the wasted time it takes to read it.

[charter.rights]

Of course they happened, and yes, of course I was, are you that uninformed?

What I object to is your selective knowledge based upon fantasy. In one fell swoop you negate and refuse to acknowledge all the good and even great things accomplished by Europeans and instead only acknowledge the low points. At the same time you make up fantastical lies about how Native cultures never knew war or any other form of atrocity. Thats why when you post just about anything I automatically regard it as being pure nonsense.

Pretty much everything you have to say is unfounded very self serving one sided crap. It appears that you lack an ability to see all sides of an issue.

Really, in another thread you actually claimed that North American Natives were more advanced than the Europeans when they arrived here. Sure, a culture that was stone age, had not invented the wheel, had not developed any form of alphabet, and had no knowledge of animal husbandry not to mention extremely limited agricultural abilities was way more advanced.

This is the kind of stuff that makes anything you post irrelevant and not even worth the wasted time it takes to read it.

Your training to kill, tends to bias your outlook on things. If I don't agree with you then automatically I become the enemy - someone to demonize and vilify. There is a reason that you do not see you opponents as friends in combat. When you go to take a hill you sure wouldn;t want to invite the guy in for tea first, right?

The point is that this is always the way it has been. The British common folk were afraid of the natives when they got here because the Church told them the natives were uncivilized savages. The minor history was written by the common folk and they are full of myths and fear-based fantasy. The REAL history is located in the legal, military and archival records. The real history shows up in the good relations the British had with the Iroquois Confederacy and in the records of countless meetings where agreements were struck and allies made. The history of the Iroquois is presented very tactfully in Professor Dean Snow's "The Iroquois" and in Horatio Hale's "Hiawatha and the Iroquois - A Study in Anthropology" . As well the Jesuit Relations provide account after account of encounters with the Iroquois and none of them describe the out and out savagery you seem to believe the Iroquois employed.

You see through a violent filter my friend where anything native is evil and lower class. Those token Indians that are with you are friends only because you see them as non-threatening and agreeable. However, I would bet that if they were to openly support what is happening at Six Nations or anywhere else you would quickly dismiss them as opposition.

So you are a victim of your conditioning AND your ego. Neither one will allow you to do what any good debater does -that is research the subject, find what is valuable and what is not. Instead you dismiss because it is easier to to that than to admit that I might be right and that you know a lot less than you think you do on this subject. I've seen the same posturing from you on many a subject where you lose the battle but are determined to win the war by ignoring the obvious.

You can chose anything you want and say anything you want. That neither makes it right or relevant to this discussion. But if you want to challenge the facts then you had better get reading and stop acting like a frigging baby everytime something comes along that challenges your 6th grade history. Wail away son. You aren't in the army and I'm not in combat with you. You lost this one long ago.

[AngusThermopyle]

Your training to kill, tends to bias your outlook on things. If I don't agree with you then automatically I become the enemy - someone to demonize and vilify.

After reading this I didn't bother with the rest of your post.

Once again you are projecting, claiming to know what motivates me and claiming to be privy to my feelings on any subject. This is something you do constantly as I have pointed out many times in the past, yet still you continue to do it. How would you know anything at all about me? Psychic?

If I don't agree with you then automatically I become the enemy - someone to demonize and vilify.

No, I don't see you as the enemy, not at all, truth be told I see you as being irrelevant. I also hold you in contempt but thats because of the baseless fabrications that you post, also your inability to see any good in anything other than what you consider to be worthy.

So once again you've shown just how far off base you can be. Your one redeeming quality is manifested in the humour your posts cause me to enjoy. Quite the opposite of viewing you as an enemy don't you think?

Actually based upon the tone of about 95% of what you post and the rather feeble insults you toss about I would say the above appears to be more indicative of yourself than any others.

[charter.rights]

After reading this I didn't bother with the rest of your post.

Once again you are projecting, claiming to know what motivates me and claiming to be privy to my feelings on any subject. This is something you do constantly as I have pointed out many times in the past, yet still you continue to do it. How would you know anything at all about me? Psychic?

No, I don't see you as the enemy, not at all, truth be told I see you as being irrelevant. I also hold you in contempt but thats because of the baseless fabrications that you post, also your inability to see any good in anything other than what you consider to be worthy.

So once again you've shown just how far off base you can be. Your one redeeming quality is manifested in the humour your posts cause me to enjoy. Quite the opposite of viewing you as an enemy don't you think?

Actually based upon the tone of about 95% of what you post and the rather feeble insults you toss about I would say the above appears to be more indicative of yourself than any others.

Predictable drivel is all you have to offer?

[AngusThermopyle]

Predictable drivel is all you have to offer?

Its drivel why? Because you don't like me pointing out the truth to you?

Actually your response is the predictable one and is part of the reason I find you to be absolutely inconsequential.

[charter.rights]

Its drivel why? Because you don't like me pointing out the truth to you?

Actually your response is the predictable one and is part of the reason I find you to be absolutely inconsequential.

Warning Violent Troll above.

[AngusThermopyle]

Warning Violent Troll above.

Excellent! I love it when you can't resist compounding your stupidity.

I must admit that I'm baffled by the reference to violence, I guess it must be part of the alternate reality which exists for you because you think it should, or some such crap anyway.

[Ontario Loyalist]

Warning Violent Troll above.

This is just plain stupid.

[charter.rights]

This is just plain stupid.

I agree. Why did you post THAT?

[AngusThermopyle]

I agree. Why did you post THAT?

What a twit.

Pee Wee Herman's got nothing on you.

[Ontario Loyalist]

I agree. Why did you post THAT?

Why are you still here?

[BC_chick]

Saw something on the CBC the other day about a series of books that are geared towards children, middle school grades I suppose, called Groundwork Guides, published by Groundwood/House of Anansi. Topics include Empire, Being Muslim, Pornography, Sex for Guys, Oil... They are supposed to be "guides" about these issues, a means of helping kids understand and deal with these issues in a manner that isn't preachy but after having looked at a few of these books I'm completely shocked that these books are not only being published but are being used in schools as teaching materials; they are extrememly biased and in some cases essentially little more than propaganda. The book that concerns me most is "Being Muslim" which is written by Haroon Siddiqui... he either ignores or downplays the sordid history of Islam, repeatedly claims that Islam is misunderstood by "western media" and every things is peachy fine for women, calls Europe a "Den of Discrimination". In regards to the Danish cartoon incident, for instance, he complains that the most tragic aspect of the whole matter was the fact that 50 protesters were killed by "anti-riot police" and nobody in Europe cared--they were too concerned about freedom of speech, which he also claims shouldn't apply to these cartoons.

If anyone has kids using these books, I would caution you to read them for yourself and if you find issue with them have a talk with your kids about it.

http://www.groundwoodbooks.com/gw_groundworkguides.cfm

Oh no no no. I much prefer the books I saw in Middle School where the Europeans were being greeted with open arms by the "Indians" and the in the feudal system the serfs and peasants danced together on the farm.

Come on OL... you know that kids have to wait till at least university to find out the *real* truth about most of history.

[Ontario Loyalist]

Oh no no no. I much prefer the books I saw in Middle School where the Europeans were being greeted with open arms by the "Indians" and the in the feudal system the serfs and peasants danced together on the farm.

Come on OL... you know that kids have to wait till at least university to find out the *real* truth about most of history.

Were you born in the 1920s??? The revisionist history that's going on nowadays is stridently ideological, along the linds of what the Soviets did when they assumed power; no coincidence considering that much of feminism is derived from Marxist-Leninist ideology. Sorry, but the Left is not the embodiment of "the truth" by any stretch of the imagination.

[BC_chick]

Were you born in the 1920s??? The revisionist history that's going on nowadays is stridently ideological, along the linds of what the Soviets did when they assumed power; no coincidence considering that much of feminism is derived from Marxist-Leninist ideology. Sorry, but the Left is not the embodiment of "the truth" by any stretch of the imagination.

So, what you're saying is that the alleged historical wrongdoings of Europeans are grossly exaggerated and/or outright untrue, and you blame malicious and politically-motivated propaganda for this historical revision.

And this is different than what the Muslim author is doing because....?

Oh, that's right, you blame Marxist-Lenist ideology and the Muslim author blames Big Satan and Israel.

Edited September 12, 2008 by BC_chick

[charter.rights]

So, what you're saying is that the alleged historical wrongdoings of Europeans are grossly exaggerated and/or outright untrue, and you blame malicious and politically-motivated propaganda for this historical revision.

And this is different than what the Muslim author is doing because....?

Oh, that's right, you blame Marxist-Lenist ideology and the Muslim author blames Big Satan and Israel.

The truth spoils his ideological fantasies.

[Ontario Loyalist]

So, what you're saying is that the alleged historical wrongdoings of Europeans are grossly exaggerated and/or outright untrue, and you blame malicious and politically-motivated propaganda for this historical revision.

And this is different than what the Muslim author is doing because....?

Oh, that's right, you blame Marxist-Lenist ideology and the Muslim author blames Big Satan and Israel.

No I'm saying that substituting one biased agenda with another doesn't make the substituting agenda any more truthful/accurate. All people who are driven by ideology are determined that their narrow view of the world is the pure truth.

Also, by focusing on the "historical wrongdoings of Europeans" you totally ignore the "historical wrongdoings" of Natives. These people were not saints by any stretch of the imagination, and they had social practices which you--even if you are a Native, which I assume you are--would find utterly abhorrant. Our concept of human rights did not exist in Native societies; life was often brutal, short, and governed by superstitions and oppressive social conditions.

I am not willing to accept or defend the more unfortunate aspects of European society, but that does not mean I'm going to sympathize people with people whose ancestors were no better or, most likely, much worse, just for the sake of political correctness and fear of being called a racist.

[White Doors]

I am not willing to accept or defend the more unfortunate aspects of European society, but that does not mean I'm going to sympathize people with people whose ancestors were no better or, most likely, much worse, just for the sake of political correctness and fear of being called a racist.

Quite well said actually, color me supprised.

People are people afterall.

[charter.rights]

No I'm saying that substituting one biased agenda with another doesn't make the substituting agenda any more truthful/accurate. All people who are driven by ideology are determined that their narrow view of the world is the pure truth.

Also, by focusing on the "historical wrongdoings of Europeans" you totally ignore the "historical wrongdoings" of Natives. These people were not saints by any stretch of the imagination, and they had social practices which you--even if you are a Native, which I assume you are--would find utterly abhorrant. Our concept of human rights did not exist in Native societies; life was often brutal, short, and governed by superstitions and oppressive social conditions.

I am not willing to accept or defend the more unfortunate aspects of European society, but that does not mean I'm going to sympathize people with people whose ancestors were no better or, most likely, much worse, just for the sake of political correctness and fear of being called a racist.

Iroquois Constitution -over 1000 years old.

This was a very ordered and civil society despite your wild west imaginings. What is abhorrent is your constant denial of the facts.

[Oleg Bach]

Iroquois Constitution -over 1000 years old.

This was a very ordered and civil society despite your wild west imaginings. What is abhorrent is your constant denial of the facts.

Propoganda in the liberalistic puplic school system is at it's best when they train the kids that they are all equal. The effect of this doctrine is not to bring up the mentality of our young to the highest level but to debase it to the lowest level and put all of our smart kids on medication - go figure.

[Ontario Loyalist]

Iroquois Constitution -over 1000 years old.

This was a very ordered and civil society despite your wild west imaginings. What is abhorrent is your constant denial of the facts.

Where's the document. In fact, where's any document written by any member of the Iroquois prior to the arrival of Europeans.

it's easy to make up stories and "facts" when there is no written evidence to work with.

[charter.rights]

Where's the document. In fact, where's any document written by any member of the Iroquois prior to the arrival of Europeans.

it's easy to make up stories and "facts" when there is no written evidence to work with.

Of course, the Iroquois Constitution is an oral tradition. It was read out every five years since the inception of the Confederacy and is well known among most Iroquois children as it is passed on through family through generations. Written evidences isn't the end-all by the way, since the SCoC suggested that it is prone to the bias and prejudice of the writers. Oral hisotry on the other hand is recorded by many and the SCoC accepts oral history as equal in weight to many British written documents.

The only stories being made up are the bedtime stories about the savage Indians your sixth grade teacher told you. The reality is that not only all Iroquois people in general had specific rights under the Great Law of Peace, but also women and children specifically. That knowledge flabbergasted the Church because at contact, European women and children were not considered human beings and were thought only to be the property of their husbands and fathers, like horses and cattle. Yup now that pre-contact European system sure sounds "civilized" [/sARCASM]