Harper's Arctic Policy: "use it or lose it"

[M.Dancer]

Canada would have very little to go on in either the international court or the court of public opinion if all our soverignty efforts amounted to a few radar stations and welfare offices for unemployed eskimoes.

On the otherhand, a vibrant climate of investment and industry with the associated improvement to the infrastucture makes our claim to the arctic a defacto reality backed up by Canadian dollars.

And then any challenges would fall flat unless backed up by naked aggression, and we can deal with that then.

[capricorn]

As far as policy goes, I have no problem with mapping what is there. It will be another thing to exploit those resources or to trumpet them as a sovereignty measure. That is some time in the future.

Establishing sovereignty must work in tandem with mapping. Exploiting/extracting resources is what is in the future and conditional on how successful we are at claiming what is surely to be disputed by other entities. Canada may end up in an international forum to decide on its Arctic claims. I see this as the opening of a new and exciting chapter in our history.

The Tories are hoping this is going to give them a bump in the polls but the previous two visits didn't do anything like that. In fact, some people were let down by the slushbreakers rather than icebreakers announcement.

Visits to the region by the PM, politicians and notable Canadian researchers are sure to peak the curiosity of Canadians. This is good as Canadians will be engaged about a region of Canada that has been regarded a mystique and previously ignored. The average Canadian knows the Arctic is cold, desolate, sparsely populated and beautiful beyond words, then they become cognizant that the Russians are showing interest, i.e. planting the Russian flag on the seabed, well then they think there must be something to it. Just now I feel like writing a book about it. I'm joking of course, but it is intriguing, isn't it?

[jdobbin]

Establishing sovereignty must work in tandem with mapping. Exploiting/extracting resources is what is in the future and conditional on how successful we are at claiming what is surely to be disputed by other entities. Canada may end up in an international forum to decide on its Arctic claims. I see this as the opening of a new and exciting chapter in our history.

As I said, I have no problem with mapping.

Visits to the region by the PM, politicians and notable Canadian researchers are sure to peak the curiosity of Canadians. This is good as Canadians will be engaged about a region of Canada that has been regarded a mystique and previously ignored. The average Canadian knows the Arctic is cold, desolate, sparsely populated and beautiful beyond words, then they become cognizant that the Russians are showing interest, i.e. planting the Russian flag on the seabed, well then they think there must be something to it. Just now I feel like writing a book about it. I'm joking of course, but it is intriguing, isn't it?

All quite interesting, yes. I still disagree with not putting a northern military base in Churchill. if you want trade and a military presence in the north, you should do it where a railway can keep you supplied and that has an airport capable of landing heavy lift aircraft.

Don't know that Harper's announcement is going to be a turning point in an election. He seems convinced it will be significant but is just one of the many spending announcements made this summer. They have not moved the polls a bit.

[eyeball]

Mapping would be a good idea. We could use this as the basis for a Canadian proposal to share soverignty over the Arctic with all the nations of the Earth. I say we trump the claims that nations bordering the Arctic are making with a claim for all of humanity. Something has to start moving us towards some sort of world government where humans have sovereignty over Earth (with all due respect for everything else that calls it home) and it seems fitting that we start in Terra incognita. That's probably what Jesus would do.

Kumbiya, ya'll.

[capricorn]

We could use this as the basis for a Canadian proposal to share soverignty over the Arctic with all the nations of the Earth. I say we trump the claims that nations bordering the Arctic are making with a claim for all of humanity.

Sharing is a quintessential Canadian virtue and delusion. There were 50 countries sitting around a table and at supper there was only one sausage sitting on a plate. Canada proposed that to be fair, the lights should be turned out and whoever grabbed the sausage first would get to eat it. All agreed. When the lights were turned back on, Canada had the sausage in its hand but 49 forks were implanted firmly in Canada's hand immobilizing its ability to eat the sausage. The moral is that we are nice guys who underestimate our opponents and sharing the Arctic with the world is a pipe dream.

[Ontario Loyalist]

Just a thought: it seems rather interesting that Harper would be making such a big deal about the North again right now, just before a possible election, and making a point of how the Arctic should be exploited; piss off some people enough so that they'll vote Green rather than Liberal, perhaps?

[Fortunata]

Now Harper says that the port to go into the Arctic and other infrastructure all hinge on the pipeline going through. Native groups have held up the pipeline due to environmental concerns and concerns that the pipeline could interfere with their communities in less than positive ways. But good for Harper - he'll have someone to blame if the port etc. doesn't go ahead. It won't be his fault.

[M.Dancer]

Canada's newest icebreakbreaker will be named the John Diefenbaker ....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

[AngusThermopyle]

Canada's newest icebreakbreaker will be named the John Diefenbaker ....

Good idea, name it after the guy who killed the Arrow and eliminated Canada as a major player in the world Aerospace industry.

[M.Dancer]

Good idea, name it after the guy who killed the Arrow and eliminated Canada as a major player in the world Aerospace industry.

Kind of hard to eliminate something that never was....we have never been a "major player"...a mid range player at very best.

On the otherhand, had Avro managed to convince even one other country that the concept, design and misson were sound, the obsolete before it even went into production Arrow would have flown....

[AngusThermopyle]

What I was reffering to was the position the Arrow placed Canada in as regards the Aerospace industry. At that time Canada was perceived to be a talented up and comer, after...well we have the Canadarm..whoopee!

[Topaz]

Canada's newest icebreakbreaker will be named the John Diefenbaker ....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

Well, he didn't dare call it the "Brian Mulroney" did it?

[Ontario Loyalist]

Good idea, name it after the guy who killed the Arrow and eliminated Canada as a major player in the world Aerospace industry.

I think Diefenbaker was as staunchly pro-Canadian as they get, which is, I believe, part of the reason that the Arrow was nixed...

I like the idea that the ship, should it ever be completed, will be named after him. (Officially, I believe, that it will be named the John G. Diefenbaker.) But there's certainly a certain sense of irony here: The Chief was staunchly pro-Canadian and Empire/Commonwealth, a true example of what a Tory should be; but Harper is a pro-American republican. I'm quite certain that Diefenbaker would be appalled by the likes of Harper and would have many a choice thing to say to him had he the chance to do so. Just another example of Harper's deception.

[AngusThermopyle]

you were making a good point until you went off on your irrational Harper bashing rant.

[Ontario Loyalist]

you were making a good point until you went off on your irrational Harper bashing rant.

Where's the "irrational" in it? Harper's so deceptive it's not even funny.

[AngusThermopyle]

Harper's so deceptive it's not even funny.

Sure, much more so than Jean "Golf Balls" Chretien. Or how about Paul "If You Don't Support New Taxes You Aren't Canadian" Martin, while he has his ships registered under foreign flags to avoid paying...you guessed it...taxes!

Like I said, irrational.

[Ontario Loyalist]

Sure, much more so than Jean "Golf Balls" Chretien. Or how about Paul "If You Don't Support New Taxes You Aren't Canadian" Martin, while he has his ships registered under foreign flags to avoid paying...you guessed it...taxes!

Like I said, irrational.

One thing I've never understood about people who support the Cons is that every time somebody is critical of the party or Harper, it's always "but the Liberals this... the Liberals that..." We're not talking about the Liberals, nor am I a supporter of the party. This is about Harper alone and how deceptive he is.

[AngusThermopyle]

You miss the point.

The point being that he is no more deceptive than any of our other Prime Ministers have been.

However it appears that one of the "brain wash" points so many are sucked in by is that he is a master of deception, what a crock of sh*t. He is no more deceptive than any number of former Prime Ministers have been in the past.

[stevoh]

Its a good idea for Canada to have access to and patrol the arctic waters regardless of your political standing.

If you are right wing it is in order to protect our assets, such as oil, gas, etc.

If you are left wing it is in order to protect our assets, such as wildlife, environment, etc.

If we do nothing, regardless of your political affiliation, things will start happening in the Arctic that Canadians don't approve of.

[AngusThermopyle]

If we do nothing, regardless of your political affiliation, things will start happening in the Arctic that Canadians don't approve of.

Very very true. It won't remain untouched forever, personally I believe it would be better if we controlled it than say for instance Russia.

[jdobbin]

I think it is excellent news that Harper has announced a replacement icebreaker for Louis St Laurent. I have no problem with the name. Diefenbaker was one of the stronger advocates for the north even if is has taken a long time to come this point.

My only problem is that there are few details about this ship. Given the cancellation of the Navy ship program, I am understandably worried that Harper will once again back away from icebreakers as he did in 2006.

I supported his icebreakers announcement in the election last time. I'd rather this not be a regular occurrence for any party to keep promising and not delivering icebreakers for the north.

Finally, this is a shade under a $1 billion announced in spending in the last days. The entire summer has been spending announcements and only a few millions cut in arts spending. It doesn't add up fiscally and the Tories are likely to break their spending promise again in 2008.

[Fortunata]

I also support the icebreaker (or the Diefenbreaker) but given Harper's record I won't hold my breath until it comes sailing into port.