How Immigration Policy has Created a "Cultureless" Canada

[JB Globe]

What majority idiot?? Prior to 1982 Canada was divided along French/English lines.

Well idiot, French/Engish weren't the only two divisions in Canada prior to 1982. Western alienation was still present, natives were still marginalized, and xenophobia still existed. And in case you hadn't noticed, there still is a French/English division.

But like I said - if a policy is THAT unpopular - the government gets voted out.

I'll say it again - show me a study that proves that your xenophobic views have widespread public support.

Can't? Than that means what you claim isn't true.

Here's a site indicating how Canada leads the way in population growth second to that of the US. Interestly, the US is increasing its population internally and naturally.

And your point is what? Are you implying that the US is better because it doesn't have a lot of immigration. Frankly, I look at the US' higher crime rate and worse social system and if (by using your reasoning, which I don't agree with) that's a result of a lack of immigration, than I say bring on more (to be clear hear - I don't buy your casual relationship between US-society and immigration).

Funny Thing about that, they don't have the so called public health care and other programs the Canadian politicians and media are brainwashing those of Canada to believe.

Actually, the reason the US has a positive natural birthrate is because Hispanic Americans have a lot of kids:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...te.39dcfdf.html

"If it weren't for Hispanic births, the U.S. could be confronting long-term population declines similar to those in Germany, Japan and other industrialized countries.

Hispanics are the only ethnic group now producing more than two children per family, according to a Census Bureau report released Monday. That's the number necessary to replace the mother and father and keep the population stable.

"The Hispanic population is growing; whites and Asians are not replacing themselves," said Jane Dye, the Census Bureau demographer who wrote the study."

The fact Canada has to rely on this tactic to increase its population shows Canada is indeed a Garbage Country.

Sorry - explain to me why a country is "garbage" because they have a negative natural birthrate? I'd LOVE to hear your reasoning.

The fact is, if Barack Obama does become president and he makes good on Universal public Health care what will that do for Canada's attractiveness as Country to go to for economic migration?

1 - I don't think he's going to be able to sell full-universal.

2 - He hasn't said anything about letting in more immigrants, and immigrants apply to multiple countries as it is now - I don't think it will make much of a difference.

Where's the referendum showing Canadians support the immigration immolation taking place? Produce it to prove Canadians support this!!

I've already posted polling data and academic studies (ie - Queens University Study) that prove that the majority of Canadians support multiculturalism and immigration in general (specific policies not withstanding).

That's proof.

So far, you've posted NO SOURCES to back up your claim that the majority of Canadians are opposed to immigration in general (just like everyone else with your position in this thread).

Time for you to get to work.

The old divide was the English/French and in this divide the sell out politicians took advantage of this and is driving Canada into culture immolation.

That divide still exists.

When a Country puts immigrants before it's own people, . . . dumps those people onto the Canada's population, and gives these people the right to vote in a move to further the campaign of culture destruction set about by the Liberals and the Conservatives is problematic.

If you're implying what I think you're implying (that it's wrong to give CANADIAN CITIZENS the right to vote because they immigrated to Canada in their lifetime) than you're getting dangerously close to radical White Nationalist territory here, buddy.

You'd deny the right to vote to Canadian Citizens because they immigrated? What about their Canadian-born kids? Them too?

When economic migrants have no common language or historical basis but are comming to Canada only because Canada offers them a better economic situation than when they came from and this comes at Canadians expense is a problem.

1 - What is your definition of economic migrants? ANY immigrant that includes economic factors as one of many reasons for coming co Canada? If so - you've just classified ALL immigrants who ever came to Canada (even the first Brits and French) as economic migrants.

2 - What evidence do you have that these migrants are ONLY influenced by economic factors?

3 - Other than Brits or French, each immigrant community as a whole did not have a language or historical basis for immigrating to Canada, but that didn't stop them from integrating and adding to Canadian society - this idea that only Brits and French can be productive Canadians is ridiculous.

The only reasoning will have to be an appeal to the Queens offices. A queen who happens to be a Christian Queen. Any immigrant who comes to Canada has to swear allegiance to the Queen. What this demonstrates and affirms is that the queen is the sovereign of Canada and she ultimately speaks for Canada. The bible (old and new) is filled with alot of things and Canada's actions since 1982 is revealing of the Canada being sold out for the benefit of a small minority. Actions contrary to the principles set forward in those books

You're officially out to lunch. Does anyone dispute my labeling of this guy as a fanatic for the following reasons:

1 - The notion that the Queen of England is not just our head of state, but actually wields REAL political control over Canadians, and SHOULD wield that control to save "us" from the conspiracy set upon us by the Liberal, NDP, Bloc, Conservative New World Order.

2 - The bible should be the basis of Canada's foreign and domestic policy.

So yes, I am a Euro white judeo Christian Canadian. Don't like it, go eff urselves.

Stop setting this up as a conspiracy against white Euro-Judeo Christian Canadians. I'M a white-Euro-Judeo-Christian Canadian - so are most of the people who support immigration and Multiculturalism in general - there is no conspiracy - there's just less and less room in mainstream Canadian society for xenophobia.

[JB Globe]

So you'd be okay with, say, forcing Blacks to pray from a seperate area behind a screen so the white folks don't have to look at them?

1 - Not sure if you've ever been to a mosque, but most of the ones in Canada don't have screens.

2 - Men are "forced" to pray separately just as much as women are.

3 - Christian women are "forced" to wait until marriage to have sex - is that sexist?

4 - Just because sexism exists in Islam doesn't mean EVERYTHING ABOUT IT is sexist.

5 - Stay on topic, if you can - you should probably spend more time sourcing your original argument than side-tracking.

[Guest American Woman]

Maybe jbg...but not me. I look up my own posts, as do you AW.

Good morning, btw.

You're right. And good morning afternoon to you, too. Hope you're enjoying your Labour Day weekend.

[JB Globe]

Argus - you still haven't provided A SINGLE FACTUAL SOURCE for any of the claims you've made.

When are you going to prove that "old immigrants were saints / new immigrants are devils?"

How long are you going to keep ranting?

No, you're confusing the inherent desire of people to live among their own as xenophibic.

People who want to EXCLUSIVELY live among people who share their ethnicity and/or religion and isolate themselves from other people in a diverse society are always motivated by xenophobic attitudes.

Xenophobia is a human cultural phenomenon - meaning any human being can posses that line of thinking, no matter their ethnicity or religion.

When it's Italians or Somalians or Chinese you're fine with it. When it's Canadians you scream racism and xenophobia.

No thanks, I don't like Straw men.

I don't think you're actually smart enough to discern my political views.

So it's unreasonable of me to deduce that since you're ranting against Multiculturalism in general, and the immigration of non-white, non-Christian immigrants that you'd be opposed to Multiculturalism and non-white, non-Christian immigration?

Perhaps you could explain JUST WHAT EXACTLY your political beliefs are if I've so grossly misunderstood you?

And opinion polls paid for by the Heritage Department don't really impress me.

That's cute - when are you going to post ANYTHING to back up your claims?

How about you do your homework and SHOW me why that study is not valid, rather than widely claiming it is?

Nor do I. On the other hand, do they want to live in a neighborhood which is 70% Somalian?

Canadians want to live in GOOD communities - of which there are MANY which don't consist of all white people. As I showed earlier, the crime rate in small (nearly all-white) Canadian cities is rising rapidly.

Where was it that you lived that was good until "all the brown people" started coming again? Where is it you live now? Why are you being so vague? Don't want to get caught making things up again? I don't blame you - it IS easier to lie when you're not specific about anything.

Yeah, well, that's what you get when you're dealing with someone to whom discussing political issues is merely a hobby. He rarely wants to put in hours of research to back up his opinins.

So, the fact that I can get sources in a minute or two says one of two things:

1 - I'm much, much smarter than you, if it takes you "hours"

2 - You're making excuses for not sourcing your argument, because YOU CAN'T FIND SOURCES FOR YOUR ARGUMENT.

Personally I think it's reason #2 - it's impossible to source an argument which is a complete MYTH. Which is exactly why no one here from your side of the fence has posted ANYTHING.

People with no lives, on the other hand, who are desperately insecure and need to "prove" their point will go to almost any lengths.

I mean, do you WANT me to put you in the "hack" category of posters or not? I'm giving you a lot of chances here to make a rational argument based on solid data - but you just keep ranting.

People with no lives, on the other hand, who are desperately insecure and need to "prove" their point will go to almost any lengths.

Sorry, but you spend more time on here than I do (ie - I will be away on work in BC and won't be posting for two weeks), just look at your post count.

Spare me this comedy.

[JB Globe]

Maybe jbg...but not me. I look up my own posts, as do you AW.

But you've spent all your time here DEFENDING JBG's claims . . .

Meaning you're defending a claim which hasn't been proven to be true.

And you haven't provided any info yourself to prove it to be true . . .

So what does that say about your position?

[JB Globe]

Immigrants nowadays tend not to want to work their way up from the bottom, or spend much of their time back in the homeland.

Prove this statement to be true.

Can't?

That's because it isn't.

This is really getting old guys - your own personal "hunches" gleamed from staring at "foreigners" suspiciously on the bus doesn't count as facts.

Either post a some sort of credible information that proves this, or admit you don't have anything more than a uninformed personal opinion.

You wouldn't buy it if someone came in here claiming "all white people are violent racists" why should anyone by your claims about a whole group of people?

[Guest American Woman]

But you've spent all your time here DEFENDING JBG's claims . . .

Meaning you're defending a claim which hasn't been proven to be true.

And you haven't provided any info yourself to prove it to be true . . .

So what does that say about your position?

[oops! Post deleted because I misread JB Globe's post.]

Edited September 1, 2008 by American Woman

[Ontario Loyalist]

Prove this statement to be true.

Can't?

That's because it isn't.

So just because you say it isn't makes it so? That's hardly an improvement.

This is really getting old guys - your own personal "hunches" gleamed from staring at "foreigners" suspiciously on the bus doesn't count as facts.

Silly nonsense.

Either post a some sort of credible information that proves this, or admit you don't have anything more than a uninformed personal opinion.

People are entitled to their opinions, whether you like it or not. I haven't seen you bolstering your tantrums with anything in the way of "proof". All I see is ranting and ad hom attacks. So you're one to talk.

Claiming that people are "uninformed" is really useless. It's a cheap tactic. The fact is that I spend much of my time reading, and if anything I would consider myself "overinformed". I think the problem is that you self-censor and only "inform" yourself via media that suits your narrow worldview. I, on the other hand, glean information from a wide variety of sources AND don't simply ape what I learn; I give it consideration and thought, and if I think that it is valid, then I use it.

You wouldn't buy it if someone came in here claiming "all white people are violent racists" why should anyone by your claims about a whole group of people?

Why is this suddenly a race issue? Who said anything about skin colour? Immigrants come from all parts of planet, including Europe. A university educated white European who can't find work in their field is likely to not want to work as a pizza delivery driver or day labourer.

Actually, there are many non-whites who believe that "all whites are racist" and I'm inclined to think that you rank among them.

[DogOnPorch]

But you've spent all your time here DEFENDING JBG's claims . . .

Meaning you're defending a claim which hasn't been proven to be true.

And you haven't provided any info yourself to prove it to be true . . .

So what does that say about your position?

It says, for one thing, that I don't agree with you. Doesn't mean I agree 100% with jbg...who knows? Maybe I do...maybe I don't. But, for certain...I don't like your opinions any more than you like mine.

What I'll say again is what Steyn says...and you can decide if it meshes with my friend's posts.

Canada's core values are that it has no Canadian core values. Multiculturalism says you believe in 'everything' while at the same time it also says you really believe in 'nothing'.

Chew on it for a while.

Douglas Murray

Meanwhile, no matter various degrees of decorum re: who started what...you have not bothered to back up your claims, either. Don't think you can, really. If you're off to Vancouver, best wear a bullet-proof vest. There are immigrants shooting each other in the streets on a near daily basis.

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I am what I am what I am what I am...

---Popeye the Sailor Man

[DogOnPorch]

So just because you say it isn't makes it so? That's hardly an improvement.

Silly nonsense.

People are entitled to their opinions, whether you like it or not. I haven't seen you bolstering your tantrums with anything in the way of "proof". All I see is ranting and ad hom attacks. So you're one to talk.

Claiming that people are "uninformed" is really useless. It's a cheap tactic. The fact is that I spend much of my time reading, and if anything I would consider myself "overinformed". I think the problem is that you self-censor and only "inform" yourself via media that suits your narrow worldview. I, on the other hand, glean information from a wide variety of sources AND don't simply ape what I learn; I give it consideration and thought, and if I think that it is valid, then I use it.

Why is this suddenly a race issue? Who said anything about skin colour? Immigrants come from all parts of planet, including Europe. A university educated white European who can't find work in their field is likely to not want to work as a pizza delivery driver or day labourer.

Actually, there are many non-whites who believe that "all whites are racist" and I'm inclined to think that you rank among them.

Good post Ontario Loyalist.

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My position—the neoconservative position—on the solution is rooted in the supposition that the answer to the problem of Islam and the West does not lie only at home. I—and neoconservatives in general—hold that the answer to the current crisis in Islamic-Western relations lies not only in a realistic tackling of our domestic crisis, but in a putting onto the right track of the fundamental problems of the Islamic world—the reasons, after all, why so many Muslims come to the West in the first place. Foremost among those reasons are the fact that (with the exceptions of the fledgling democracies of Iraq and Afghanistan) their own historical lands are presently run by despots, crackpots and crime-syndicate families. Until the Middle East and other Islamic lands have a greater measure of freedom, the West can barely be surprised that even fairly hardline Islamists will continue to be desperate to join the welfare-wagon in the West.

---Douglas Murray

[Peter F]

Interesting. Multiculturalism means Canada has no values...so I am curious about what non-existant values need defending from multiculturalism?

Once the blight of multiculturalism is removed from our civil society, what value's will we then put in place?

[JB Globe]

Canada's core values are that it has no Canadian core values. Multiculturalism says you believe in 'everything' while at the same time it also says you really believe in 'nothing'.

Since when is pluralism nothing?

you have not bothered to back up your claims, either.

Like I said before, the onus isn't on my to prove the original post wrong - it's on JBG to prove the claims true first. Otherwise, why would I bother disproving something that hasn't been proven in the first place? Even still - I've still backed up my basic statement (Canadians in general, while they have specific criticisms of certain policies, support immigration and multiculturalism in general) and given widely-known historical events and facts as evidence that yesterday's immigrants weren't saints, as JBG portrayed them in his posts (ie - Christie Pits Riots, ethnic enclaves such as Kensington, etc)

Edited September 1, 2008 by JB Globe

[DogOnPorch]

Interesting. Multiculturalism means Canada has no values...so I am curious about what non-existant values need defending from multiculturalism?

Once the blight of multiculturalism is removed from our civil society, what value's will we then put in place?

Peter, if you watch those two vids I linked to you'll find the answer I'd like to give. In a nut shell, multiculturalism doesn't engage itself in regards to its values. It kind of says: "we're all equal so why even bother talking about it?"

JB Globe...you should be aware of my values by now and recognize that they are not your own. Knowing this coming from a fellow taxpaying Canadian, how is it a big stretch that others in the world might not see things eye to eye with either you or I?

------------------------------------------------

it's a world of laughter, a world or tears

its a world of hopes, its a world of fear

theres so much that we share

that its time we're aware

its a small world after all

Edited September 1, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[JB Globe]

So just because you say it isn't makes it so?

YOU are the one who made the sweeping generalization. YOU are the one who also who didn't back up that sweeping generalization. Until you do, it only stands as your personal opinion, not a fact.

The onus is on the person who makes the claim to back it up.

People are entitled to their opinions, whether you like it or not.

You can give your opinion all you want - and I can call you out on the fact that you're just pulling said opinion out of your ass. Don't get angry at me, be angry that you don't hold yourself to a higher standard.

Do you know what I do when I don't know what I'm talking about? I don't offer my "hunch" - I listen and learn. That's why you don't see my name all over this board on topics all over the place - I read and learn about things I don't know, and participate on things I do know.

I haven't seen you bolstering your tantrums with anything in the way of "proof".

Which is why you should read my earlier posts in this thread where I referenced well-known historical facts, added studies, polls, newspaper articles, etc.

Claiming that people are "uninformed" is really useless. It's a cheap tactic.

Unless it's true.

The fact is that I spend much of my time reading, and if anything I would consider myself "overinformed".

Than how could you make such a blatantly false statement? - "Immigrants nowadays tend not to want to work their way up from the bottom, or spend much of their time back in the homeland."

How on EARTH do you know what ALL new immigrants are thinking? How on earth can you say that ALL immigrants don't want to work from the bottom up? Where are you gleaning this information from? Where?

There's a big difference between the honest pursuit of knowledge and pursuing information that will back up your already deeply-held beliefs. Also, when dealing with issues such as social issues, book learning is only half of what you need - these problems affect real people, and if you are completely isolated from the "subjects" you're reading about - how accurate can your observations really be?

I think the problem is that you self-censor and only "inform" yourself via media that suits your narrow worldview.

That would make sense if only some of my favourite authors and columnists were not conservatives, some of whom call for immigration reform.

The difference is - they're making reasoned arguments based in reality, and they're motivated by rational concerns, not xenophobia.

If you want to have a discussion about immigration reform - by all means. I discussed what I considered to be rational non-xenophobic based concerns earlier in this thread. If you want to vilanize ALL immigrants in lieu of facts, I don't want any part of it.

There's nothing broad about a worldview that makes sweeping generalizations.

I, on the other hand, glean information from a wide variety of sources AND don't simply ape what I learn; I give it consideration and thought, and if I think that it is valid, then I use it.

Yet you STILL make unsubstantiated sweeping generalizations about groups of people.

When are such statements EVER valid?

You need to re-evaluate

Actually, there are many non-whites who believe that "all whites are racist" and I'm inclined to think that you rank among them.

If you'd have paid closer attention to my posts in this thread, you would have known that I'm white, and you wouldn't have made the assumption that I'm non-white based on the fact that I dispute your claims about all new immigrants being lazy (paraphrase).

My point still stands - you would not buy someone's unsubstantiated claim about non-immigrant white folks, so why should anyone buy your unsubstantiated claim about immigrants?

Edited September 2, 2008 by JB Globe

[Peter F]

Peter, if you watch those two vids I linked to you'll find the answer I'd like to give. In a nut shell, multiculturalism doesn't engage itself in regards to its values. It kind of says: "we're all equal so why even bother talking about it?"

I havn't watched the youtube links, and I have no intention of watching the youtube links.

I kind of agree with the concept "we're all equal so why even bother talking about it?"

I do believe we are all equal. I believe immigrants are equal to me and you. I believe that if I eat haggis every tuesday or have discussions in gaelic with my friends, or think marriage is a holy convenant between a man and a woman, or consider killing thousands for a political end an acceptable thing; If I believe these things amongst others, then its nobody's business but my own. And if I was an immigrant the previous statement would still stand.

Multiculturalism makes Canada a valueless nation without culture...What a load of bunk.

This country is full of values - you have them, I have them, immigrants-whose-sponsored-wives-leave-them-have-them. My parents had them, your parents and Mark Steyn's parents and Karla Holmoka's parents and every immigrant whoever landed in this country has them.

The crime here is that those values are not shared by you, or Steyn.

A country with no values! Give me a break. Our army is fighting a war in Afghanistan over Values. This nation has signed on to lord knows how many treatys regarding landmines, torture, human rights etc etc.

No values my ass.

[jbg]

I'll point out that nobody has proven the initial claim by jbg to be false using factual information, either.

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Object in mirror is, no doubt, closer than it seems.

---Larson Cartoon

A proof is a proof.

[jbg]

But you've spent all your time here DEFENDING JBG's claims . . .

For crying out loud, my "claim" was to have received an e-mail quoting an anonymous post, and I said I agreed with much of it. "Much ado about nothing".

[jbg]

Once the blight of multiculturalism is removed from our civil society, what value's will we then put in place?

The values of the great English-speaking culture that Trudeau tried to erase.

[DogOnPorch]

For crying out loud, my "claim" was to have received an e-mail quoting an anonymous post, and I said I agreed with much of it. "Much ado about nothing".

Ah...they don't frighten me. It's simple: assimilation/one set of laws for all = good (for me); multiculturalism/numerous subjective cultural based laws = bad (for me). They can all jump up and down and get all cross calling me names. It won't change my mind.

Do they even know who Xenophon was?

PF: I kind of agree with the concept "we're all equal so why even bother talking about it?"

That's super. I'm sure all the immigrants pouring into our country feel the same way about us. Just remember that when we're all dancing in the field holding hands, some cultures prohibit dancing and music.

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Every harlot was a virgin once.

---William Blake

Edited September 2, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[Peter F]

The values of the great English-speaking culture that Trudeau tried to erase.

Such as ... ?

[Peter F]

Ah...they don't frighten me. It's simple: assimilation/one set of laws for all = good (for me); multiculturalism/numerous subjective cultural based laws = bad (for me). They can all jump up and down and get all cross calling me names. It won't change my mind.

Do they even know who Xenophon was?

That's super. I'm sure all the immigrants pouring into our country feel the same way about us. Just remember that when we're all dancing in the field holding hands, some cultures prohibit dancing and music.

-----------------------------------------------------

Every harlot was a virgin once.

---William Blake

What culture? When they come here they have no culture; They can't because, according to the argument, Canada doesn't have a culture but if we weren't multicultural we would.

Since we don't have a culture I wonder why we dance to music?

[DogOnPorch]

What culture? When they come here they have no culture; They can't because, according to the argument, Canada doesn't have a culture but if we weren't multicultural we would.

Since we don't have a culture I wonder why we dance to music?

You must have a few after dinner cocktails in you. That made no sense in relation to what I said.

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Flounder: I can't believe I threw up in front of Dean Wormer.

Boon: Face it, Kent. You threw up *on* Dean Wormer.

---Animal House

[Peter F]

You must have a few after dinner cocktails in you. That made no sense in relation to what I said.

Very well

That's super. I'm sure all the immigrants pouring into our country feel the same way about us. Just remember that when we're all dancing in the field holding hands, some cultures prohibit dancing and music.

and it seems our culture allows dancing in the street and holding hands. So we do in fact have a culture. Multiculturalism doesn't make us cultureless.

[Peter F]

You must have a few after dinner cocktails in you. That made no sense in relation to what I said.

Very well

That's super. I'm sure all the immigrants pouring into our country feel the same way about us. Just remember that when we're all dancing in the field holding hands, some cultures prohibit dancing and music.

and it seems our culture allows dancing in the street and holding hands. So we do in fact have a culture. Multiculturalism doesn't make us cultureless.

[DogOnPorch]

and it seems our culture allows dancing in the street and holding hands. So we do in fact have a culture. Multiculturalism doesn't make us cultureless.

What it does do is sideline the majority culture into an 'equal' (read: unequal) position with some rather intolerant, barbaric cultures which we willingly let in here. But, think of all the cool restaurants you can eat at...lol.

I, personally, can't wait for our first Jamacian shoot-out in this town. Maybe some Haitian looting n' rioting. A little Lebanese gang rape. You know you've finally hit the big time, then. The usual EI gangsters are getting a tad dull.

But, wait...that's all our fault for not being culturally sensitive enough. These 'barbaric intolerant cultures' are merely that way due to them being marginalized by certain 'redneck' attitudes. Maybe some more laws to get guys like me to STFU...eh? That'll fix it...that and getting out of Afghanistan and disowning Israel.

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I am above the weakness of seeking to establish a sequence of cause and effect, between the disaster and the atrocity.

---Edgar Allan Poe

Edited September 2, 2008 by DogOnPorch