How Immigration Policy has Created a "Cultureless" Canada

[CANADIEN]

You seem to bring it (race) up a lot. As Wild Bill mentions it's all about culture...not skin colour. But you seem to want a witch-hunt where you can smoke out some evil racists. Seems to be the usual response from the far-left. Anyone who has a bone to pick with multiculturalism is Archie Bunker.

Wild Bill is most certainly welcome to consider the issue is about culture. I won't ignore the fact that others engage in the "white is better" crap just because you don't like to be reminded it exists.

And nice try by the way... If I thought everyone (or most everyone, or a substantial pertage of people) who has a problem with multiculturalism was a racist, I would say so.

Edited August 30, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

Someone hasn't been reading the news. But sure...blame the World's problems on me.

I have read the news... and there are churches in India. And I am not blaming the World's problems on you. I am blaming your xenophobia on you. But feel free to fail to see the difference.

[CANADIEN]

Thar yea go again.

The Nazi isn't part of my culture. The teacher/coach is. Are we clear now on what civilization is? Gee...have you noticed there's so much straw around here one could build some sort of a figure or statue out of it?

Let me check. You do not believe in the "white is good, other skin colours are bad" crap spouted by some, so you say nothing about it. But if someone takes them to task for what they write, then it's "How do you dare mentioning it, I don't share that opinion?"

I for one don't feel the target of attacks directed at others.

[CANADIEN]

I don't like immigrants that look at me like some stupid white guy that does not know how good I've got it and he is willing to take the comfort from me because he thinks I am oblivious to my own worth and national wealth.

Believe me, it is not because of your skin colour that I hold that opinion about you.

[Wild Bill]

Go say that to the guy who say that his new neighbourhood is nicer and more white.

Any time!

Unless he's much bigger than me, of course! Still, guys like that are a small minority. It's much easier to get along with someone of a different race if he's of the same culture and style. Archie Bunker and Mr. Jefferson got along just fine after they got to know one another. They were essentially the same inside, just a different colour on the outside.

[jbg]

The problem with most immigrants is that more often than not they choose not to assimilate into Canadian culture. I live in a very diverse area, and what saddens me is the general lack of passion for Canada and its people. I'm a proud Canadian. Most immigrants could care less about anything involving Canada. I doubt they know the second line to our national anthem.

I know this is a touchy subject. There's a fine line between bigotry and nationalism. But I think it's important for Canadian identity that everyone who lives in the country is proud of the people and their accomplishments. Not everyone has to drink beer and watch a hockey game, but there has be some general passion and respect for the country that provides your livelihood.

Your post is "bang on"

[jbg]

I am a Canadian, and I don't care what languages other people speak between themselves. I don't care what cultural traits they adopt or preserve, as long these do not conflict with the rights of other Canadians.

But do you care if they create a "Somalia within Canada" or "Jamaica within Canada" replete with the rivalries and hatreds imported from home? What has made Canada and the US great countries is that we are peopled by descendants of those of left their countries largely to achieve their potential rather than fighting out ancient conflicts, some from the 10th Century, whose details are unimportant but still lead to immense bloodshed derived from vengence. Choose your Canada.

I am a Canadian, and we already have plenty or Canadian-born people who believe women are inferiors ("they should be in the kitchen instead of stealing men's jobs" --

Are "honor killings" by fathers enraged that their daughter doesn't want to wear a burkha in school OK with you?

I am Canadian, and I would raise a family anywhere that is safe, with nice old houses and trees... no matter where my neighbours were born and grew up.

And it will stay safe? How?

[jbg]

JB Globe makes no sense. This is not about sexism or equality - it's about persecution - and persecution of woman during prayer is the problem - not where and how they pee - men urinate in isolation also -...so there is no parallel between peeing and praying - It's about woman hate - and this dispising of females really causes serious problems when trying to achieve a earthly heavenly existance - to seperate and persecute the wonderful and beautifully powerful female is out of sheer jealousy and age old envy - men should feel secure - if they do not they are not men! Just men attempting to me mamma.

Orthodox Jews segregate women and men during prayer. The difference is that women are not degraded and treated as beasts.

[CANADIEN]

Any time!

Unless he's much bigger than me, of course! Still, guys like that are a small minority. It's much easier to get along with someone of a different race if he's of the same culture and style. Archie Bunker and Mr. Jefferson got along just fine after they got to know one another. They were essentially the same inside, just a different colour on the outside.

I have seen plenty of people from different cultures getting along just fine. Let's not forget that we have little of the culture or religion related violence of Asian or European countries.

It is one thing to expect that all will abide by the same basic rules. But far too many people reject out of hands some of the basic tenets of the society they claim to be upholding. Freedom of opinion, freedom of religion, the equality of all before the law are cornerstones of our society, yet some would deny those to others.

People who applaud when fundamentalist pastors claim that a woman's place is in the house scream bloody murder when a woman dons a hijab. People who use religious freedom and freedom of opinion and expression as a defense for homophobic statements have no problem saying that immigrants should be denied that the same freedom of religion and expression.

If we are to insist that newcomers respect basic rules and freedoms, we must do the same. And if we are to insist that newcomers speak "flawless" English before they even get on the plane, be Christians and love either hockey or the Leafs *the two being mutually exclusive ), then let's not pat ourselves on the back about how tolerant and "advanced" we are.

[Wild Bill]

I have seen plenty of people from different cultures getting along just fine. Let's not forget that we have little of the culture or religion related violence of Asian or European countries.

It is one thing to expect that all will abide by the same basic rules. But far too many people reject out of hands some of the basic tenets of the society they claim to be upholding. Freedom of opinion, freedom of religion, the equality of all before the law are cornerstones of our society, yet some would deny those to others.

People who applaud when fundamentalist pastors claim that a woman's place is in the house scream bloody murder when a woman dons a hijab. People who use religious freedom and freedom of opinion and expression as a defense for homophobic statements have no problem saying that immigrants should be denied that the same freedom of religion and expression.

If we are to insist that newcomers respect basic rules and freedoms, we must do the same. And if we are to insist that newcomers speak "flawless" English before they even get on the plane, be Christians and love either hockey or the Leafs *the two being mutually exclusive ), then let's not pat ourselves on the back about how tolerant and "advanced" we are.

I can't speak for other folks, just for me!

J'etait que j'etait...et ces tout que j'etait! ---Popeye the Sailor Man

Edited August 31, 2008 by Wild Bill

[CANADIEN]

But do you care if they create a "Somalia within Canada" or "Jamaica within Canada" replete with the rivalries and hatreds imported from home? What has made Canada and the US great countries is that we are peopled by descendants of those of left their countries largely to achieve their potential rather than fighting out ancient conflicts, some from the 10th Century, whose details are unimportant but still lead to immense bloodshed derived from vengence.

You mean like the fourth-generation Irish-Americans who were providing support doe the IRA in the 1970's, or Canadian-born supporters of Meir Kahane, or white supremacists? We shall not talk about THOSE bad apples, because it may detract from the "if you are not exactly like me (complete with the same prejudice), you're not good enough" chant.

Choose your Canada.

I have chosen a Canada that is not governed by prejudice. Unlike the one you want.

Are "honor killings" by fathers enraged that their daughter doesn't want to wear a burkha in school OK with you?

Now that I finished laughing... I am not a rabid islamophobe, so murder (for any reason) must be fine with me, right? It is not. But I glad that you are so at lost foir an argument that you have to resort to such a crappy accusation. I was tempted to ask if you would be OK with the use of violence to prevent a Christian girl from dating a Muslim boy, but I have enough self-respect not to sink that low.

And it will stay safe? How?

By treating those who broke the law according to their crimes. Treating purveyors of prejudice with the scorn they richly deserve would help too... In other words, move to my neighbourhood and spout your m*nure and don't expect me to make you feel welcomed.

[CANADIEN]

I can't speak for other folks, just for me!

J'etait que j'etait...et ces tout que j'etait! ---Popeye the Sailor Man

Fine by me.

[jbg]

You mean like the fourth-generation Irish-Americans who were providing support doe the IRA in the 1970's, or Canadian-born supporters of Meir Kahane, or white supremacists? We shall not talk about THOSE bad apples, because it may detract from the "if you are not exactly like me (complete with the same prejudice), you're not good enough" chant

The IRA and JDL supporters who donate or raise funds to support violence have two places to be in my book; in jail or sitting in a chair, strapped down, for lethal injection.

I have chosen a Canada that is not governed by prejudice. Unlike the one you want.

In your Canada who would go to work?

Now that I finished laughing... I am not a rabid islamophobe, so murder (for any reason) must be fine with me, right? It is not. But I glad that you are so at lost foir an argument that you have to resort to such a crappy accusation. I was tempted to ask if you would be OK with the use of violence to prevent a Christian girl from dating a Muslim boy, but I have enough self-respect not to sink that low.

You didn't answer the question; do we need to respect other "cultures" enough to wink at honor killings? Also, learn to spell. The word "for" as used by you has one vowel, an "o".

By treating those who broke the law according to their crimes. Treating purveyors of prejudice with the scorn they richly deserve would help too... In other words, move to my neighbourhood and spout your m*nure and don't expect me to make you feel welcomed.

People who migrate to a country and continue their manure (other than normal defecation) have no place either.

[CANADIEN]

In your Canada who would go to work?

Prey tell, what is the relationship between the absence of prejudice and the composition of the work force?

You didn't answer the question; do we need to respect other "cultures" enough to wink at honor killings?

You asked if honour killing was OK with me, and I said no. I suppose the only appropriate answer is one that reflects your islamophobia.

Also, learn to spell. The word "for" as used by you has one vowel, an "o".

For once, you have a productive idea. I should indeed learn to curb my typo-prone ways. While I do that, why don't you learn to curb your prejudiced ways?

[whowhere]

As we all know - calling someone retarted is a great way to start any intelligent post . . .

But yes - I'm for real. If a majority of the population is extremely angry with a policy a government puts forward, they vote that government out.

What majority idiot?? Prior to 1982 Canada was divided along French/English lines. After 1982 Canada's population has been ramped up from 20 million to 34 million.

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2005_09_30/...immigration.htm

Here's a site indicating how Canada leads the way in population growth second to that of the US. Interestly, the US is increasing its population internally and naturally. Funny Thing about that, they don't have the so called public health care and other programs the Canadian politicians and media are brainwashing those of Canada to believe. The fact Canada has to rely on this tactic to increase its population shows Canada is indeed a Garbage Country. The fact is, if Barack Obama does become president and he makes good on Universal public Health care what will that do for Canada's attractiveness as Country to go to for economic migration?

That's a cute claim - can you prove it to be true? I mean - can you actually prove that the (still large) majority of Canadians who are white are powerless?

The thing is - as I illustrated earlier with that Queens U study on attitudes towards immigration - "old Canadians" SUPPORT Multiculturalism and immigration in general.

Where's the referendum showing Canadians support the immigration immolation taking place? Produce it to prove Canadians support this!!

Just because YOU don't like immigrants and YOU are white doesn't mean all white people think like you do.

If anti-immigration was an ideal held by as many Canadians as you claim, and none of the parties are catering to to that "majority of old Canadians" than surely after +30 years there would be a strong, organized anti-immigration movement filled with lobbying groups, activist groups, and even political parties - but there isn't, in fact, such a movement is relegated to the extreme margins of society.

Canada has engaged and is engaging in the politics of divide and conquer. The old divide was the English/French and in this divide the sell out politicians took advantage of this and is driving Canada into culture immolation. There is a party that caters to the old Canadians, it's the Bloc Quebecois and the Parti Quebecois. When a Country puts immigrants before it's own people, brings in immigrants who can't speak english or French - dumps those people onto the Canada's population, and gives these people the right to vote in a move to further the campaign of culture destruction set about by the Liberals and the Conservatives is problematic.

Prove to me that immigrants are "nulifying" my voice - prove to me they're taking away job opportunities and driving down wages.

It's a fact. The conservatives work permit policy is to allow employers to claim they can't find the people in Canada and in turn are enabled to recruit outside of Canada and bypass Canadian jobseekers. Once here these new recruits are fast tracked to permanent resident status by the conservatives and that translates into voting rights. How do you think this new happy economic resident of Canada is going to be and will they vote?? Get your head out of your ass.

So far you're doing nothing that a whole slew of xenophobes in this post have already done - make wild claims and accusations without any facts to back them up.

I said it before and I'll say it again - you people don't have an argument to stand on - all you do is make wild claims and create false realities in your head that aren't based on any factual information.

This is the reality created by the Conservatives. http://www.workpermit.com/news/2005_09_30/...immigration.htm Read that link buddy.

Do you REALLY expect anyone to believe you on the basis of "immigrants are bad, trust me!" you've got to SHOW us why they're so bad - the fact you can't do so with factual information demonstrates how bunk your whole position is.

When economic migrants displace and mutes Canadians political voice is problematic. When economic migrants are given priority and access to the jobs of Canada over Canadians is troublesome. When economic migrants have no common language or historical basis but are comming to Canada only because Canada offers them a better economic situation than when they came from and this comes at Canadians expense is a problem.

There is no reasoning with the political and bureacratic trash that has polluted the values of Canada. The only reasoning will have to be an appeal to the Queens offices. A queen who happens to be a Christian Queen. Any immigrant who comes to Canada has to swear allegiance to the Queen. What this demonstrates and affirms is that the queen is the sovereign of Canada and she ultimately speaks for Canada. The bible (old and new) is filled with alot of things and Canada's actions since 1982 is revealing of the Canada being sold out for the benefit of a small minority. Actions contrary to the principles set forward in those books

The Queens office of Canada is the Governor General and the leftenant governors of each province. The people have the power to veto and squash all actions that are not in the interests of her and Canada's interest. Her office has the power to protect Canada from the immolation being inflicted on Canada by the bureacratic and political trash. If people want to protest, petition her office.

Since 1970 all matters involving the British monarchy can be brought before the International Court of Justice for a ruling. The fact is, Canada's politicians and bureacrats are abusing Canada's democracy for their own monetary gain. There are two paths, appeal to the Queen to repeal the statue of westminister and put Canada back under the supervision of the UK parliament or the Pre 1982 Canadians and their generations can bring the matter before the International Court of Justice and seek to have the Statue of Westminister repealed to bring Canada back under the supervison of the UK parliament.

Either of these ways will translate to Canada into becoming apart of the Eurozone and Canadians will have the freedom to protect their beliefs, their historical roots and culture.

So yes, I am a Euro white judeo Christian Canadian. Don't like it, go eff urselves.

[CANADIEN]

I so needed a good Sunday morning laugh.

the US is increasing its population internally and naturally.

And we shall ignore that 1/8 of U.S. residents are foreign born and 1/20 of U.S. residents are illegal ECONOMIC migrants.

There is a party that caters to the old Canadians, it's the Bloc Quebecois and the Parti Quebecois.

Don't tell people on this thread thst the Bloc and the PQ stand against the breaking-up of Canada. Tell them. For 40 years now they have acted under the false belief that their aim was to break-up Canada.

The bible (old and new) is filled with alot of things and Canada's actions since 1982 is revealing of the Canada being sold out for the benefit of a small minority. Actions contrary to the principles set forward in those books

First the Bible was proof that First Nations didn't have languages. Now, welcoming foreigners is contrary to principles set in the Bible, including the passage in Matthew where Jesus says that everything we do to others (including welcoming foreigners) is done to him? Whatever

Since 1970 all matters involving the British monarchy can be brought before the International Court of Justice for a ruling. The fact is, Canada's politicians and bureacrats are abusing Canada's democracy for their own monetary gain. There are two paths, appeal to the Queen to repeal the statue of westminister and put Canada back under the supervision of the UK parliament or the Pre 1982 Canadians and their generations can bring the matter before the International Court of Justice and seek to have the Statue of Westminister repealed to bring Canada back under the supervison of the UK parliament.

The role of the International Court of Justice is to decide legal disputes between countries or to provide advice on legal issues brought forward by the UN or its agencies. Only COUNTRIES can take their legal disputes with other countries to the Court. I wonder what countries are willing to step to the plate and claim that they are in dispute with Canada over its immigration policies, or that said policies violate international law, any treaty signed by Canada, or the Statute of Westminster. And there is of course the little matter that the ICJ would say that an issue that is strictly internal is outside its jurisdiction.

You also try the International Criminal Court. Of course you would have to convince the prosecutor's office, then the court, that Canada's immigration policy constitute a war crime or a crime against humanity. In the very improbable case you succeed, you would then have to convince the Court that it is not sufficient to punish the individuals guilty of such a crime, that indeed the entire country should no longer be allowed to exist.

And there's the United Nation's Human Rights Tribunal. You would have of course to prove that Canada's immigration policies violate human rights.

But feel free to try. I think it should go on TV - they'll need a replacement for "This hour has 22 minutes".

Edited August 31, 2008 by CANADIEN

[Argus]

The thing is - there's a huge difference between reforming the immigration system, and xenophobia. Just because someone wants to fix the immigration system, doesn't automatically mean they don't like people from different ethnic groups from their own.

You're confusing support for immigration reform with an anti-immigrant, xenophobic agenda.

No, you're confusing the inherent desire of people to live among their own as xenophibic. When it's Italians or Somalians or Chinese you're fine with it. When it's Canadians you scream racism and xenophobia.

And as I showed you earlier, the majority of Canadians support Multiculturalism, so sorry to break it to you - but you're in the minority on this one, based on your political views

I don't think you're actually smart enough to discern my political views. And opinon polls paid for by the Heritage Department don't really impress me.

.

The vast majority of Canadians are not outraged at the prospect of living next to a non-white neighbor.

Nor do I. On the other hand, do they want to live in a neighborhood which is 70% Somalian?

What is this? A dozen posts without a source cited? Without a study referenced?

Yeah, well, that's what you get when you're dealing with someone to whom discussing political issues is merely a hobby. He rarely wants to put in hours of research to back up his opinins. People with no lives, on the other hand, who are desperately insecure and need to "prove" their point will go to almost any lengths.

I mean, do you WANT me to put you in the "hack" category of posters or not? I'm giving you a lot of chances here to make a rational argument based on solid data - but you just keep ranting.

[Argus]

Men and women praying separately is about as sexist as men and women having different bathrooms.

So you'd be okay with, say, forcing Blacks to pray from a seperate area behind a screen so the white folks don't have to look at them?

[DogOnPorch]

No, you're confusing the inherent desire of people to live among their own as xenophibic. When it's Italians or Somalians or Chinese you're fine with it. When it's Canadians you scream racism and xenophobia.

Pretty much sums it up...doesn't it? To be fair, many these days are often too young to recall a time before multiculturalism. Not sure of the age groups we're working with here, but it sounds like born in the 70s.

-----------------------------------------

Britons seem to have given up on assimilating their Muslim population, with many British elites patting themselves on the back for their tolerance and multiculturalism.

---Linda Chavez

[JB Globe]

One only needs to give xenophobes a rope in debate like this, they'll be more than happy to hang themselves . . .

My earlier statement still stands:

NO ONE HAS PROVEN THE INITIAL CLAIM BY JBG TO BE TRUE USING FACTUAL INFORMATION.

Not one analysis by a historian has been referenced, not one study, nothing.

So far, the only "proof" that "old immigrants were saints and new immigrants are devils" comes in the form of unsubstantiated ranting from the people supporting that argument.

I'm sorry that you all missed that part of high school where it was taught that - you must PROVE something to be true using factual information, because otherwise, no matter how BADLY you want it to be true, it isn't.

The only thing this myth tells us is how xenophobes view the past and how they use it to justify their agenda in the present.

Oh, and the fact that they are too lazy / unable to find sources that support their position.

If I'm wrong about this, and there are in fact studies and analysis which support your positions, by all means - GO AHEAD AND POST THEM. You've only had what is it? Two weeks to find them? I found a study for my side of the argument in a few minutes, what's the hold up on your end?

[Ontario Loyalist]

So far, the only "proof" that "old immigrants were saints and new immigrants are devils" comes in the form of unsubstantiated ranting from the people supporting that argument.

I think that the argument can be made that the immigrants who came here a century ago understood that what they were embarking upon was likely permanent. There was some return flow, that's indisputable, but these immigrants were largely committed to making a go of it in Canada. I'm not sure about the "assimilation" part; I think that many of these groups believed that they could maintain their distinctness, but were slowly pressured by the government into assimilation. This is certainly what happened to German-Canadians starting well before WWI.

Immigrants nowadays tend not to want to work their way up from the bottom, or spend much of their time back in the homeland. Not all are like this, but seriously when we have to evacuate 50,000 "Canadians" from Lebanon only to see the vast majority return once the fighting ended is a little ridiculous. People who come to Canada have to put Canada first--no exceptions. The way things are now work to a certain extent since Canada is fairly stable, but if we should ever face some sort of a crisis, Canadian society is so fragmented that I fear that Canada couldn't overcome it.

[DogOnPorch]

JB Globe: NO ONE HAS PROVEN THE INITIAL CLAIM BY JBG TO BE TRUE USING FACTUAL INFORMATION.

Not one analysis by a historian has been referenced, not one study, nothing.

I'll point out that nobody has proven the initial claim by jbg to be false using factual information, either.

------------------------------------------------

Object in mirror is, no doubt, closer than it seems.

---Larson Cartoon

[Guest American Woman]

QUOTE=JB Globe: NO ONE HAS PROVEN THE INITIAL CLAIM BY JBG TO BE TRUE USING FACTUAL INFORMATION.

Not one analysis by a historian has been referenced, not one study, nothing.

I'll point out that nobody has proven the initial claim by jbg to be false using factual information, either.

And I'll point out that when someone makes a claim, the onus is on them to prove it factual, not on others to disprove it.

[DogOnPorch]

And I'll point out that when someone makes a claim, the onus is on them to prove it factual, not on others to disprove it.

Maybe jbg...but not me. I look up my own posts, as do you AW.

Good morning, btw.

-------------------------------

Boy, the way Glenn Miller played. Songs that made the Hit Parade.

Guys like us, we had it made. Those were the days.

Didn't need no welfare state. Everybody pulled his weight.

Gee, our old LaSalle ran great. Those were the days.

---Lee Adams and Charles Strouse

[JB Globe]

Hey JBG,

Good to see you're still checking around this post - when are you going to attempt factually back up that myth of yours? I'm going to Vancouver for two weeks, does that sound like a reasonable amount of time for you to find a study or two that proves your claims?

Or shall we assume this is another baseless rant-post?

Orthodox Jews segregate women and men during prayer. The difference is that women are not degraded and treated as beasts.

Actually, sorry to break it do you, but observant Jews DO in fact degrade women and use Torah to justify it.

We're not automatically angels just because we're chosen.