Alberta: Francophone scores key win in court

Leafless · July 3, 2008

A francophone truck driver beat a $54 traffic ticket yesterday and in the process won an early victory in his fight to secure official recognition of French-language rights in Alberta. Provincial court Judge Leo Wenden ruled Gilles Caron's constitutional rights were breached in December 2003, when he was ticketed for making an unsafe left turn.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/n...05-62dcbafe09c0

And the cultural hijack continues.

Why do all Quebec's star bigot politicians Trudeau, Bourassa, Chretien, Parizeau, Mulroney, Bouchard, Charest support anti-English laws in Quebec while forcing French language rights outside Quebec?

CANADIEN · July 3, 2008

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/n...05-62dcbafe09c0
And the cultural hijack continues.

Which to anyone not blinded by your hatred means in fact... another strike for equality. One more of those charter rights you want upheld. Next stop, bilingual tickets in Montreal.

Why do all Quebec's star bigot politicians Trudeau, Bourassa, Chretien, Parizeau, Mulroney, Bouchard, Charest support anti-English laws in Quebec while forcing French language rights outside Quebec?

For the same reason you want to eradicate all languages other than English... bigotry.

Argus · July 4, 2008

Which to anyone not blinded by your hatred means in fact... another strike for equality.

How many Frenchmen are in Alberta anyway? How many aren't completely fluent in English? I'm guessing roundabout - none. So you want the taxpayer to start paying to have everything government related translated into French? For what purpose, exactly? Oh never mind. I already know. The French language is sacred and holy and the essence of your entire being. You cry every time you think about it.

Next stop, bilingual tickets in Montreal.
For the same reason you want to eradicate all languages other than English... bigotry.

Ah yes, except, of course, if he were a Francophone ranting and screaming against English, and calling Anglophones pigs and worse, no one would call him a bigot. Instead he would be called a "Nationalist "or a "Quebecois" or a "language activist". That seems to be the duality of language discussions. No matter how chauvenistic, bigoted and anti-English the Francophones are who want to "protect French" no one seems to think anything ill of them. But the minute an Anglo questions French everywhere he's a bigot.

CANADIEN · July 4, 2008

How many Frenchmen are in Alberta anyway?

And how relevant is it? We are talking about the rights of Canadians, anyway, not people from France.

How many aren't completely fluent in English? I'm guessing roundabout - none.

About as relevant as the number of English-speaking Montrealers able or unable to speak French. Which is absolutely irrelevant in regards to the rights they should enjoy as Canadians. They, like any Canadian, are the sole judges, individually, of which Canadian language they will use when dealing with their government.

So you want the taxpayer to start paying to have everything government related translated into French?

You must be Albertan, I am not. So you sure can point out the piece of Alberta legislation that exempt French-speaking Albertans from paying taxes? Since according to you they are not taxpayers.

Besides, the court decision is not about translating documents. It is about the clearly guaranteed rights of any Canadian to a court hearing in either English or French, A right also enjoyed by English-speaking Quebecers, and that even the Quebec government cannot take away.

BTW, OF course I still want parking tickers in Montreal to be in English and French.

For what purpose, exactly? Oh never mind. I already know. The French language is sacred and holy and the essence of your entire being. You cry every time you think about it.

:lol: ¸It does neither of it, but it surely part of my Canadian identity. I am Canadian after all, and with it comes my rights as a Canadian. You can`t deal with it, you problem, not mine.

Ah yes, except, of course, if he were a Francophone ranting and screaming against English, and calling Anglophones pigs and worse, no one would call him a bigot. Instead he would be called a "Nationalist "or a "Quebecois" or a "language activist".

I would call a bigot and more anyone posting half of the m*nure about English-speaking Canadians that Leafless uses against non-English-speaking Canadians.

Edited July 4, 2008 by CANADIEN

Wilber · July 4, 2008

I guess for all practical purposes Francophones are now immune from traffic tickets in many western provinces. In BC we have a big need for officers who speak Chinese dialects, Hindi, Punjabi and other Asian languages but need damn few who speak French. Equality my ass.

Argus · July 5, 2008

And how relevant is it? We are talking about the rights of Canadians, anyway, not people from France.
About as relevant as the number of English-speaking Montrealers able or unable to speak French. Which is absolutely irrelevant in regards to the rights they should enjoy as Canadians.

Okay, I realize the very ideas of practicality and common sense mystify you. But We Anglos are rather attached to them. Also, while you clearly have never been in the unfortunate position of being economically successful, and thus have never paid taxes, those of us who are required to fork over a considerable amount to various levels of government every year don't like to see it wasted on satisfying the forlorn pride of ethnic groups.

If a sizeable percentage of the population is unable to comprehend official correspondance in one official language then I can see having everything translated. If that numbers is extremely minimal then no, I see no practical reason to translate documents. That costs money and I don't like to waste money. As for this guy, he knew he was speeding. He could easily read the ticket. Yet he gets off because of this? Just another illustration of how ridiculous and absurd lawyers are, as well as the incompetent, ludicrously expensive legal system they have constructed.

They, like any Canadian, are the sole judges, individually, of which Canadian language they will use when dealing with their government.

Except where large groups of Francophones are in charge, as in Quebec, and they immediately decide to deny such rights to anyone but themselves, regardless of numbers.

Besides, the court decision is not about translating documents. It is about the clearly guaranteed rights of any Canadian to a court hearing in either English or French, A right also enjoyed by English-speaking Quebecers, and that even the Quebec government cannot take away.

Personally, I'd give him the hearing in both languages, then when he's found guilty force him to pay for the translation, and all court costs. You see, the massive waste of money built into our legal system is a pet peeve of mine, and I despise self-serving weasels who do their best to make it even more complex and expensive for no real purpose.

BTW, OF course I still want parking tickers in Montreal to be in English and French.

Most of your fellow francophones disagree - violently.

I would call a bigot and more anyone posting half of the m*nure about English-speaking Canadians that Leafless uses against non-English-speaking Canadians.

Then would you agree that the majority of Francophones, including virtually all Quebec politicians, media, union, artistic and cultural personalities are bigots?

Because the opinions expressed by him are echoed in reverse by most Francophones.

CANADIEN · July 6, 2008

I guess for all practical purposes Francophones are now immune from traffic tickets in many western provinces. In BC we have a big need for officers who speak Chinese dialects, Hindi, Punjabi and other Asian languages but need damn few who speak French. Equality my ass.

Nobody is immune from anything. And the judgement said nothing about the language(s) spoken by the officer issuing the tickets, or the languages on the tickets. It had to do with the language of court proceedings.

CANADIEN · July 6, 2008

Okay, I realize the very ideas of practicality and common sense mystify you.

Less we forget, the rights of Canadians are neither practical nor common sensical.

Also, while you clearly have never been in the unfortunate position of being economically successful, and thus have never paid taxes(...)

I am still waiting for you to show me how I can avoid paying taxes as a Franco-Ontarian. Or where you got the information you use as a basis for the belief I am economically disadvantaged. Gotta know, since I do pay taxes and I have very few economic worries.

those of us who are required to fork over a considerable amount to various levels of government every year don't like to see it wasted on satisfying the forlorn pride of ethnic groups.

I can take of my pride in anything I take pride in. From the government, I expect good government, law and order, and respect of the rights of ALL Canadians.

If a sizeable percentage of the population is unable to comprehend official correspondance in one official language then I can see having everything translated. If that numbers is extremely minimal then no, I see no practical reason to translate documents. That costs money and I don't like to waste money.

So, is it good bye translation of offficial documents in English by the government of Quebec?

As for this guy, he knew he was speeding. He could easily read the ticket. Yet he gets off because of this? Just another illustration of how ridiculous and absurd lawyers are, as well as the incompetent, ludicrously expensive legal system they have constructed.

The guy broke the law, and so did the government. .

Except where large groups of Francophones are in charge, as in Quebec, and they immediately decide to deny such rights to anyone but themselves, regardless of numbers.

And except when YOU (personnally) seek to deny the rights of other Canadians.

Personally, I'd give him the hearing in both languages, then when he's found guilty force him to pay for the translation, and all court costs.

Of course, an English-speaking Albertan in the same situation would not have to pay court costs. That's common sense indeed.

madmax · July 7, 2008

I guess for all practical purposes Francophones are now immune from traffic tickets in many western provinces. In BC we have a big need for officers who speak Chinese dialects, Hindi, Punjabi and other Asian languages but need damn few who speak French. Equality my ass.

Apparently BC needs (English or French) as a 2nd language course for all these immigrants that speak neither language. If I were to live in another country, I would learn the language of that country. Obviously, if living in BC, french wouldn't be a first choice. But if the immigrant came to Quebec, it could well be their first choice.

We have two official languages. The people above are free to keep their language, but they should learn at least one of the two languages of our country.

Leafless · July 7, 2008

We have two official languages. The people above are free to keep their language, but they should learn at least one of the two languages of our country.

Why?

English and French as official languages only fall under federal jurisdiction and do not fall under provincial jurisdiction.

What is the purpose when official languages is the brainchild of the federal government and has nothing to do with the reality of the natural evolved de-facto language of Canada being the English language.

In Canada language is a provincial responsibility and up to now no other province outside of Quebec has made official any language as the official language of commerce outside of Quebec, which as made its official language French.

Since Canada is an official multicultural country I hope other provinces take advantage of this when the linguistic opportunity arises to make official what ever OTHER language suits their province.

Languages currently spoken in Canada:

English 20,584,775 (67.1%)
French 6,608,125 (19.1%)

Chinese[4] 790,035 (2.6%)

Punjabi 278,500 (1.9%)

Spanish 209,955 (0.7%)

Italian 170,330 (0.6%)

Arabic 144,745 (0.5%)

German 128,350 (0.4%)

Tagalog 119,345 (0.4%)

Vietnamese 111,440 (0.4%)

Portuguese 103,875 (0.3%)

Urdu 102,805 (0.3%)

Polish 101,575 (0.3%)

Korean 101,500 (0.3%)

Persian 97,220 (0.3%)

Russian 93,805 (0.3%)

Tamil 92,680 (0.3%)

Greek 55,100 (0.2%)

Gujarati 52,715 (0.2%)

Romanian 51,060 (0.2%)

Berber 25,000 (0.1%)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Canada

guyser · July 7, 2008

In Canada language is a provincial responsibility and up to now no other province outside of Quebec has made official any language as the official language of commerce outside of Quebec, which as made its official language French.

Can you translate that into english please?

Languages currently spoken in Canada:

There is no way that is a valid chart.

170,633 speak Italian? Maybe three times that many .

Leafless · July 8, 2008

Can you translate that into english please?

If you posted the rest of what was said, you probably would understand.

Since Canada is an official multicultural country I hope other provinces take advantage of this when the linguistic opportunity arises to make official what ever OTHER language suits their province.

IOW-I am in favour of official multilingual provinces for a reason.

If the provincial governments of this country are that lame and do not have the foresight to recognize that English is the dominant language of Canada, then let it recognize, officially, any other minority language that becomes popular in any particular province.

There is no way that is a valid chart.
170,633 speak Italian? Maybe three times that many .

Then post your own valid chart.

geoffrey · July 12, 2008

Would I (if I didn't speak French) be let off of a similar ticket in Quebec if the officer didn't speak English or my ticket was not in English?

Leafless · July 15, 2008

Would I (if I didn't speak French) be let off of a similar ticket in Quebec if the officer didn't speak English or my ticket was not in English?

Alberta, unlike Quebec has no provincial language law or act designating the English language has the official language of the province of Alberta.

Alberta currently recognizes the federal governments two official languages English and French.

I believe it is only the RCMP that are legally required to speak both English and French in Quebec.

Most tickets though is something else and it appears your only recourse in Quebec is to have your ticket translated into English.

But this takes time unless you intend to fight the ticket which could be an additional source of time and trouble.

Most Québec tickets in Québec are in French only (thank the language laws for that!) - but you have the right to get an English translation of your ticket. Make sure you ask when you send in your plea!

http://www.quebecticket.com/non-coupable/

In 1979, the Supreme Court of Canada declared Chapter III of the Charter of the French Language unconstitutional, citing it contrary to section 133 of the British North America Act of 1867. The highest court in Canada judged that the enacting and passing of laws had to be done in both French and English in the parliaments of Quebec and Canada.
Sections 7 to 13 of the Charter of the French Language had made French the only language of legislation and only provided for a translation of laws in English at the end of the legislative process.

The Quebec government responded by re-enacting the charter (and all other acts enacted since 1977) in French and English. Sections 7 to 13 of the Charter were however left untouched.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_dispute...language_policy

Language rights
Although the 1867 law did not establish English and French as Canada's official languages, it did provide some rights for both languages in some institutions of the federal and Quebec governments.

Section 133 allowed bilingualism in Parliament and the Quebec legislature, allowed for records to be kept in both languages, and allowed bilingualism in federal and Quebec courts. Interpretation of this section has found that this provision requires that all statutes and delegated legislation be in both languages and be of equal force.[4] Likewise, it has been found that the meaning of "courts" in section 133 includes all federal and provincial courts as well as all tribunals that exercise an adjudicative function.[5]

These rights are duplicated in respect to the federal government, but not Quebec, and extended to New Brunswick, by section 17, section 18, and section 19 of the Charter of Rights; section 16 and section 20 of the Charter elaborate by declaring English and French to be the official languages and allowing for bilingual public services.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Act,_1867

guyser · July 15, 2008

Would I (if I didn't speak French) be let off of a similar ticket in Quebec if the officer didn't speak English or my ticket was not in English?

Dont know.

Of course this guy wasnt let off for lack of a french speaking officer. In fact the ticket was valid , it was the courts treatment that got him off the charge.

Leafless · July 15, 2008

Dont know.
Of course this guy wasnt let off for lack of a french speaking officer. In fact the ticket was valid , it was the courts treatment that got him off the charge.

So designating a provinces majority language as an 'official language' allows a province to ignore a Canadian citizens certain constitutional rights such as the case in Quebec.

Then all majority English speaking provinces should wake up to this fact and save their taxpayers a bundle.

Discrimination pays off and earns respect, don't you think, guyser?

M.Dancer · July 15, 2008

Anglophones can get full service in english .. no rights are infringed.

NorthGuard · July 16, 2008

For greater clarification, as stated in the previous exerpt from Wikipedia, Official Bilingualism is constitutionally enforced only at the Federal Level (which it has been determined includes all courts). Provinces choose their own official language(s) - New Brunswick is the *only* bilingual province, Quebec's official language is French, and it is English everywhere else.

As a result of court rulings and subsequent legislation, all provincial buisiness in New Brunswick must be able to be conducted in either French or English, at the request of the citizen. This has had the interesting effect (among others) that RCMP working in NB *must* be bilingual, and every interaction with the police must be conducted in the official language of the citizen's preference.

In other provinces, except Quebec, the police (and other provincial servants) can conduct their buisiness in English only, if that is there choice, and it is perfectly constitutional, no matter how much someone might wish it were not so.

Leafless · July 18, 2008

For greater clarification, as stated in the previous exerpt from Wikipedia, Official Bilingualism is constitutionally enforced only at the Federal Level (which it has been determined includes all courts). Provinces choose their own official language(s) - New Brunswick is the *only* bilingual province, Quebec's official language is French, and it is English everywhere else.

If you are saying English is provincially official everywhere else in Canada, this is incorrect.

There is not a single Canadian province that has designated the English language as the only official language of commerce. They should do so to protect the de facto status of the English language in majority English speaking provinces.

Quebec is the only province in Canada that has designated the French language as the official language of commerce in their province.

CANADIEN · July 19, 2008

If you are saying English is provincially official everywhere else in Canada, this is incorrect.

A rare event, you got something right.

There is not a single Canadian province that has designated the English language as the only official language of commerce. They should do so to protect the de facto status of the English language in majority English speaking provinces.

Now, you know that I will remind you of that one next time you try to deny you want to impose language as the sole language of commerce :lol: :lol:

BTW, the status of English as the first language of the majority of Canadians, and as the main language of commercial in public life in provinces other than Quebec is not under any threat, and any logical person knows it.

Leafless · July 20, 2008

Now, you know that I will remind you of that one next time you try to deny you want to impose language as the sole language of commerce

You reminding me means nothing.

The fact is the English language in the ROC is being hijacked by Francophones.

The weapon Francophones use is federal style bilingualism, primarily used to STEAL English speaking jobs and gain undeserved rights.

BTW, the status of English as the first language of the majority of Canadians, and as the main language of commercial in public life in provinces other than Quebec is not under any threat, and any logical person knows it.

This proves that you are in fact are illogical.

Just check out Eastern Ontario and the federal official minority French language that is being propagated FALSELY as some SORT of provincially official French language.

How about spreading some logic in Quebec and report back here after you have succeeded propagating the English language in Quebec to include the same linguistic ammendities Francophones enjoy in Ontario.

BWA-Ah-Ah-Ah-Ah.

CANADIEN · July 20, 2008

You reminding me means nothing.
The fact is the English language in the ROC is being hijacked by Francophones.

The weapon Francophones use is federal style bilingualism, primarily used to STEAL English speaking jobs and gain undeserved rights.

This proves that you are in fact are illogical.

Just check out Eastern Ontario and the federal official minority French language that is being propagated FALSELY as some SORT of provincially official French language.

How about spreading some logic in Quebec and report back here after you have succeeded propagating the English language in Quebec to include the same linguistic ammendities Francophones enjoy in Ontario.

BWA-Ah-Ah-Ah-Ah.

I would be happy to do so if I was in Quebec and if I were not dealing with your m*nure.

Nice to see, btw, that you demonstrate once again that in your bigoted mind equal language rights is wrong and illogical in Ontario but would be right in Quebec. I of course, believe that it would be right in both provinces.

Edited July 20, 2008 by CANADIEN

CANADIEN · July 20, 2008

Just check out Eastern Ontario and the federal official minority French language that is being propagated FALSELY as some SORT of provincially official French language.

I've checked. For years. Which is why I know there is no provincial legislation or official document stating that French is an official language at the provincial level in Ontario, or a sort of provincial language. The few politicians who have made such claims are ignorant, and for the most part are English-speaking politicians propagating (not wilfully, I hope) falsehoods in the vain hope of stirring francophobic sentiments.

Most Franco-Ontarian organizations and politicians are in fact not CLAIMING that French is an official language at the provincial level, but saying it should be. I, for one, disagree with them o that account, as it is not necessary in order to maintain the linguistic rights I rightfully enjoy.

seabee · July 20, 2008

Tourists from France who come here are all amazed at the thought that the Brits spent so much money, blood and efforts to conquer this freezing colony, with all the problems associated with dealing with the conquered nation(s). :lol:

Conquering a people is the easy part. Keepiing it conquered is a never-ending time- and money-consuming tasks which is frequently detrimental to its political stability.

CANADIEN · July 20, 2008

Tourists from France who come here are all amazed at the thought that the Brits spent so much money, blood and efforts to conquer this freezing colony, with all the problems associated with dealing with the conquered nation(s).
Conquering a people is the easy part. Keepiing it conquered is a never-ending time- and money-consuming tasks which is frequently detrimental to its political stability.

We're in 2008. Those of us who have joined the 21th century (forgive me if I believe it includes you) are passed the Conqueror-conquered mentality.

Edited July 20, 2008 by CANADIEN