Fuel Prices Displaces Environment as #1 Issue (Poll)

[madmax]

Have a look at this BC poll. If one wants to look at the "Hockey Stick" effect. Here is one charging up from the bottom of the Charts to the top. Displacing the Environment, Health Care and the Economy.

http://www.mustelgroup.com/pdf/20080626.pdf

[stevoh]

Have a look at this BC poll. If one wants to look at the "Hockey Stick" effect. Here is one charging up from the bottom of the Charts to the top. Displacing the Environment, Health Care and the Economy.

http://www.mustelgroup.com/pdf/20080626.pdf

Yep, we are all paying at the pump right now and feeling that pain. I believe that a carbon tax implemented now is simply not necessary, market forces are doing considerably more than the 4-8 cent carbon tax will.

[Topaz]

Well. get ready, on the news I heard that by next year, if not sooner, we'll be paying 1.80 or $7.00 gal for gas. The cost of water and milk is also up there. I see our local gas station are being very cautious when pricing gas....132.1?? Have anyone ever seen a .1 before?

[guyser]

...132.1?? Have anyone ever seen a .1 before?

Only as long as I can remember.

[M.Dancer]

Yep, we are all paying at the pump right now and feeling that pain. I believe that a carbon tax implemented now is simply not necessary, market forces are doing considerably more than the 4-8 cent carbon tax will.

Um..yeah back when it was 68.1......or 76.1....

[guyser]

Um..yeah back when it was 68.1......or 76.1....

FYI....I expect my marina will be charging about $1.80 maybe $2 a litre.

No tubing for my nieces unless my brother wants to cough up the dough.

[jdobbin]

Have a look at this BC poll. If one wants to look at the "Hockey Stick" effect. Here is one charging up from the bottom of the Charts to the top. Displacing the Environment, Health Care and the Economy.

How much is the Campbell policy expected to add to pump prices?

I see the Liberals remain comfortably in first place in B.C..

What is the provincial NDP policy on emissions? Will it raise fuel prices?

Edited June 27, 2008 by jdobbin

[madmax]

How much is the Campbell policy expected to add to pump prices?

I see the Liberals remain comfortably in first place in B.C..

I don't believe the Campbell policy is even in place yet. Nor do I believe the question is tied to any of the Liberal Policies in BC. Often questions are asked singularly on their own merits, even if other questions concerning political support are on the same questionaire. But hey, I just looked at the graph and went WOW!

..............

The part I find interesting is how an issue has risen so dramatically in short a short span to the #1 position.

To see that the Environment, Health Care and the ECONOMY have been displaced by one issue (Gas) is quite remarkable.

[jdobbin]

I don't believe the Campbell policy is even in place yet. Nor do I believe the question is tied to any of the Liberal Policies in BC. Often questions are asked singularly on their own merits, even if other questions concerning political support are on the same questionaire. But hey, I just looked at the graph and went WOW!

..............

The part I find interesting is how an issue has risen so dramatically in short a short span to the #1 position.

To see that the Environment, Health Care and the ECONOMY have been displaced by one issue (Gas) is quite remarkable.

I agree that gas is rising fast. There are now some analysts who say it is resembling a bubble but I can't speak to that. Like others, I think that world demand will remain steady. I just don't know if a couple of dollars rise in oil each day is sustainable. Something will break and soon. Recession comes to mind.

As far as Campbell's carbon tax goes, is it more significant than how fast oil is rising? I wonder.

Even without imposing a carbon tax, does it mean that we need to soften all our environmental programs to massive investment in oil, gas, nuclear, coal and the like to compensate.

[Wilber]

Double post.

Edited June 27, 2008 by Wilber

[Wilber]

How much is the Campbell policy expected to add to pump prices?

I see the Liberals remain comfortably in first place in B.C..

What is the provincial NDP policy on emissions? Will it raise fuel prices?

2.4 cents on gas 2.7 cents on diesel. Takes effect on July 1. It increases to 7 cents over the period of the bill. The Liberals have dropped 2 points in the poles and the NDP has gained 2, a four point change between poles. The comfort zone is proving not quite so comfortable and Campbell is in the process of trying to sell a pig. He will have to be really good about it because so far he is not getting much sympathy. When the full impact of higher energy prices really starts to bite, it will get even more difficult. People are watching their standard of living deteriorate already and the government is seen as piling on. Higher tax bracket folks in Vancouver and Burnaby which have good transit options and can take best advantage of the income tax cuts will be the best off with Campbell's program, everyone else, not so much.

Glad I live close to the border and have some recreational property just on the other side. That combined with the fact we spend most of our other vacations south of the border because of lower costs, I don't imagine we will be buying fuel in Canada for at least 6 months of the year. We took our $100 cheques from the government and changed them into USD because that is where it will be spent.

[jdobbin]

2.4 cents on gas 2.7 cents on diesel. Takes effect on July 1. It increases to 7 cents over the period of the bill. The Liberals have dropped 2 points in the poles and the NDP has gained 2, a four point change between poles. The comfort zone is proving not quite so comfortable and Campbell is in the process of trying to sell a pig. He will have to be really good about it because so far he is not getting much sympathy. When the full impact of higher energy prices really starts to bite, it will get even more difficult. People are watching their standard of living deteriorate already and the government is seen as piling on. Higher tax bracket folks in Vancouver and Burnaby which have good transit options and can take best advantage of the income tax cuts will be the best off with Campbell's program, everyone else, not so much.

Glad I live close to the border and have some recreational property just on the other side. That combined with the fact we spend most of our other vacations south of the border because of lower costs, I don't imagine we will be buying fuel in Canada for at least 6 months of the year. We took our $100 cheques from the government and changed them into USD because that is where it will be spent.

Latest Decima poll showed Canadians are looking to dump vacation property because of the costs of energy.

We'll see if the Campbell plan ends up being a major problem. I have a feeling that governments will take the heat on gas prices even if they are not the ones doing the price hikes.

[Wilber]

Latest Decima poll showed Canadians are looking to dump vacation property because of the costs of energy.

We'll see if the Campbell plan ends up being a major problem. I have a feeling that governments will take the heat on gas prices even if they are not the ones doing the price hikes.

Not US properties close to the border, where we are they have never been worth more in the 22 years we have had it. The combination of high Canadian prices, taxes and dollar have made them quite desirable.

Certainly government isn't responsible for the huge increase in fuel prices but people have no sense of humour when they see government adding to the pain they are already receiving while being told it is good for them. It's insulting and there is no reason for it.

[jdobbin]

Not US properties close to the border, where we are they have never been worth more in the 22 years we have had it. The combination of high Canadian prices, taxes and dollar have made them quite desirable.

Sounds like you might have a better situation than some.

Here is the story on the cottage situation.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080627/...prices_cottages

An increasing number of cottage owners across Canada are mulling the sale of their summer properties to reduce the strain on their wallets brought on by soaring gas prices, reports a leading real estate firm.

A poll by Royal LePage showed that about two in 10 respondents might get out of the cottage lifestyle if gas prices were to go way up, Phil Soper, CEO and president of Royal LePage, said in an interview.

I was incorrect about the poll being from Decima. It looks like it was Royal Lepage.

This all seems linked to gas prices. I'm assuming that transportation costs each weekend and high prices for boating fans must be having an effect.

Certainly government isn't responsible for the huge increase in fuel prices but people have no sense of humour when they see government adding to the pain they are already receiving while being told it is good for them. It's insulting and there is no reason for it.

We'll see if it has a major impact. If the Campbell government also lowers other taxes this year, it might lose some of the bite.

[Wilber]

Sounds like you might have a better situation than some.

Here is the story on the cottage situation.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080627/...prices_cottages

I was incorrect about the poll being from Decima. It looks like it was Royal Lepage.

This all seems linked to gas prices. I'm assuming that transportation costs each weekend and high prices for boating fans must be having an effect.

We'll see if it has a major impact. If the Campbell government also lowers other taxes this year, it might lose some of the bite.

I don't dispute the poll but do you think people are going to feel favourable to a government that makes it even more difficult to hang on to their cottages?

[jdobbin]

I don't dispute the poll but do you think people are going to feel favourable to a government that makes it even more difficult to hang on to their cottages?

It probably won't help the popularity but is it enough to defeat the government?

You have to consider people's fears as well. Will climate fears temper anger.

When the Liberals were cutting like crazy in the 1990s there was a lot anger but there was resignation about the deficit as well. The anger at the cuts was not enough for the Opposition to defeat the government. In fact, there was support for the hard-headed policy.

[Wilber]

It probably won't help the popularity but is it enough to defeat the government?

You have to consider people's fears as well. Will climate fears temper anger.

When the Liberals were cutting like crazy in the 1990s there was a lot anger but there was resignation about the deficit as well. The anger at the cuts was not enough for the Opposition to defeat the government. In fact, there was support for the hard-headed policy.

The country was on the verge of bankruptcy at the time but we had control over our own future. It depends on how many people believe that Dion and Canada can single handedly save the planet by merely applying a tax. Not many methinks.

The thing about a tax is that it sets no targets or has any vision about how to meet targets. Simply imposing a tax requires no smart people and no hard work, it just says we'll take your money and it's up to you to figure out how to live with it and by the way, you will have less money to work with in order to do it.

[jdobbin]

The country was on the verge of bankruptcy at the time but we had control over our own future. It depends on how many people believe that Dion and Canada can single handedly save the planet by merely applying a tax. Not many methinks.

The thing about a tax is that it sets no targets or has any vision about how to meet targets. Simply imposing a tax requires no smart people and no hard work, it just says we'll take your money and it's up to you to figure out how to live with it and by the way, you will have less money to work with in order to do it.

A lot of smart minds say that carbon taxes does work and does change habits.

If people dismiss climate change then Dion's plan will go up in smoke. If they accept climate change then they will have various policies of the parties to compare.

[Wilber]

A lot of smart minds say that carbon taxes does work and does change habits.

If people dismiss climate change then Dion's plan will go up in smoke. If they accept climate change then they will have various policies of the parties to compare.

And one policy is doing nothing, understanding that market forces are already doing what carbon tax proponents want. Energy prices have doubled in the past year with no end in sight. Kind of makes a tax redundant don't you think? Dion is taking a big political gamble and his timing couldn't be worse but carry on.

[Wild Bill]

It probably won't help the popularity but is it enough to defeat the government?

You have to consider people's fears as well. Will climate fears temper anger.

When the Liberals were cutting like crazy in the 1990s there was a lot anger but there was resignation about the deficit as well. The anger at the cuts was not enough for the Opposition to defeat the government. In fact, there was support for the hard-headed policy.

Is that what you saw? At the time my feeling was that the Liberals could do pretty well whatever they wanted with such a split opposition. Chretien/Martin cut so deep because we were on the verge of having the "gnomes in Zurich" yank our national credit rating right out from under us! They had no choice, with no opposition to stop them.

Is this good reason to give them credit? Methinks you're just being partisan again.

[jdobbin]

And one policy is doing nothing, understanding that market forces are already doing what carbon tax proponents want. Energy prices have doubled in the past year with no end in sight. Kind of makes a tax redundant don't you think? Dion is taking a big political gamble and his timing couldn't be worse but carry on.

Dion is taking a chance on putting a price on carbon. However, the policy leaves room for people and business to get tax relief elsewhere. It also rewards people faster for changing their exposure to the carbon tax.

Market forces fluctuate but in recent years emissions have continued to rise steadily.

I guess it will come down to whether people bite the bullet and change their habits because of concern over the environment and their exposure to the tax.

[jdobbin]

Is this good reason to give them credit? Methinks you're just being partisan again.

You're certainly welcome to think they had no choice. However, it is also clear that the policy was popular based on fears despite the anger at the pain it cost.

I certainly can't help the split opposition. Call it the legacy of Mulroney and blame Manning and Harper who were among the driving forces behind it.

[Wilber]

Dion is taking a chance on putting a price on carbon. However, the policy leaves room for people and business to get tax relief elsewhere. It also rewards people faster for changing their exposure to the carbon tax.

Market forces fluctuate but in recent years emissions have continued to rise steadily.

I guess it will come down to whether people bite the bullet and change their habits because of concern over the environment and their exposure to the tax.

It doesn't reward anyone except those who are given relief from the tax. I'll go back to basic math skills, if government takes 4 dollars from you and gives 1 dollar to someone else to give them relief from that tax, how are they going to give you the opportunity for 4 dollars in tax relief without cutting spending somewhere else?

What we have been seeing in the past year is not a market fluctuation but a fundamental change in the market and the economy. If the people running for office can't figure that out, heaven help us if they get elected.

People are already biting the bullet and having to change. Name one politician who would have campaigned on a 40 to 45 cent per liter carbon tax on fuel this time last year, yet it has happened without them. I can see why a politician would be miffed as it throws a wrench in their own spending plans because the money is going to energy producers instead of government, but crap happens and the bottom line is the same for the consumer.

[jdobbin]

What we have been seeing in the past year is not a market fluctuation but a fundamental change in the market and the economy. If the people running for office can't figure that out, heaven help us if they get elected.

People are already biting the bullet and having to change. Name one politician who would have campaigned on a 40 to 45 cent per liter carbon tax on fuel this time last year, yet it has happened without them. I can see why a politician would be miffed as it throws a wrench in their own spending plans because the money is going to energy producers instead of government, but crap happens and the bottom line is the same for the consumer.

Harper seems to be running on that promise with his cap. As I've said, the expert panels expected his cap was going to tack on about 40 cents a lite on the price of fuel. Seems to me that the Liberal plan has less of an impact on the pumps.

[Wilber]

Harper seems to be running on that promise with his cap. As I've said, the expert panels expected his cap was going to tack on about 40 cents a lite on the price of fuel. Seems to me that the Liberal plan has less of an impact on the pumps.

Well if the Liberals can make that argument to the public or it actually happens, he will have some splainin to do but a consumption tax puts no onus on industry only the consumer.