U.S. to reopen deportation case

[Leafless]

United States immigration officials who detained Canadian engineer Maher Arar in 2002 concluded his deportation to Syria would "more likely than not result in his torture," but removed him anyway despite receiving "ambiguous" assurances of his safety, according to a new U.S. government report into the case.

There are many questions to be answered in the Arar case, basically a case born out of Canada's open immigration system and 'Fundamental Freedoms' given to "Everyone" in Canada.

His international movements (to Pakistan and possibly Afghanistan, with indirect flight routes through Tunisia) were suspicious, and he met under suspicious circumstances with Abdullah Almalki (a fellow computer expert being tracked as a supplier of hardware and software into Talibani Afghanistan, and as a link to financing through a Pakistani "charity"), as well as with others unnamed. Mr. Arar left Canada suddenly, and his family cleared house and moved, in both cases immediately after Canadian security searched or interviewed a colleague; then seemed to be returning to Canada only after the dust had settled.

So with this info and Mr Arar's selective memory of Almalki, the INS agents were quite suspicious. Not having enough to actually hold him but believing him to be a part of a conspiracy with El-Maati and Almalki, they looked to deport Arar.

The US government then asks the Canadian government if it's ok to deport Arar:

"However, U.S. government officials we spoke to say they told Canadian intelligence that they were sending Arar to Syria – and the Canadians signed off on the decision."

The US government then double checks with Syria to make certain that Arar won't be tortured, a fear as we list Syria as a torturing state:

Before deporting Arar to Syria, American officials involved in the case told 60 Minutes II they had obtained assurances from the Syrian government that Arar would not be tortured –- that he would “be treated humanely”

So with the blessing of the Canadian government and assurances from Syria, the suspicious dual Canadian-Syrian citizen is packed off to Syria (by way of Jordan) where Arer says he was tortured (like Warren, there's no corroborating source of info here, but it seems plausible in Syria).

http://polyscifi.blogspot.com/2005/02/mahmad-arar.html

The U.S must think Canada is a genuine pain with their immigrant problems in which many Canadians surely think likewise.

[guyser]

'Fundamental Freedoms' given to "Everyone" in Canada.

Yup. Thats what being a citizen , landed or otherwise, entails.

So, you would like to pick and choose which citizens dont get their rights ?

Oh by the way, Ill bet he is enjoying his millions of dollars. He says thanks for your contribution.

The U.S must think Canada is a genuine pain with their immigrant problems in which many Canadians surely think likewise.

Probably not. IN fact , no they dont.

They have enough issues with the 20 million illegals in their country.

Many canadians think otherwise too.

[Leafless]

Yup. Thats what being a citizen , landed or otherwise, entails.

So, you would like to pick and choose which citizens dont get their rights ?

As usual you are off topic.

"Which citizens dont get their rights"

Then obviously you are not familiar with the word 'everyone' which does not mean you even have to be a citizen of Canada. This includes foreign terrorist, foreign murders, enemy combatants etc.

Guyser thinks this is a good thing.

Yes, and also I support a Canadian citizenship policy that guarantees these rights in Canada only and is not applicable to anyone that is not a Canadian citizen.

Non-desirable immigrants is another area of immigration I currently feel is tremendously lax and should be considerably tightened up.

Oh by the way, Ill bet he is enjoying his millions of dollars.

I'll bet he is to.

They have enough issues with the 20 million illegals in their country.

And NOT a single one launched a civil suit against their U.S. government.

Many canadians think otherwise too.

Being morally stupid is nothing to be proud of.

[guyser]

As usual you are off topic.

Re-reading what I posted , you may be right. (tuck it away for prosperity)

Then obviously you are not familiar with the word 'everyone' which does not mean you even have to be a citizen of Canada. This includes foreign terrorist, foreign murders, enemy combatants etc.

Same as pretty much everywhere. For sure the US is this way. Why would we have different laws for people visiting here?

Guyser thinks this is a good thing.

Sho' do !

Non-desirable immigrants is another area of immigration I currently feel is tremendously lax and should be considerably tightened up.

True. But irrelevant to the discussion.

And NOT a single one launched a civil suit against their U.S. government.

Uh....about that point, are you sure. Actually I will save you some time, you're wrong. Not only about that but about Arar . He was not an illegal, so again, moot and irrelevant.

Being morally stupid is nothing to be proud of.

I'll take being morally stupid over being just plain stupid anyday.

Whoopsie now!

There are many questions to be answered in the Arar case, basically a case born out of Canada's open immigration system and 'Fundamental Freedoms' given to "Everyone" in Canada

It was not a "case born out of Canada's open immigration system" , not one bit.

This may be hard , but he was a citizen. And he has $10M to enjoy his country of Canada . I hear he is taking french lessons, the language of love , not to mention commerce in Quebec.

Edited June 6, 2008 by guyser

[Leafless]

It was not a "case born out of Canada's open immigration system" , not one bit.

This may be hard , but he was a citizen. And he has $10M to enjoy his country of Canada . I hear he is taking french lessons, the language of love , not to mention commerce in Quebec.

Glad to hear Arar has an emotional attachment with Quebec.

Karla Homolka felt the same way about Quebec:

Particularly transparent and cynical was Homolka's attempt to appeal to French sensibilities in Quebec, saying that she had such a rough time with the English media with regard to her part in the rape, torture, and murder of teenage girls in Ontario. Quebeckers are so much more forgiving -- or oblivious, or something -- she seemed to be saying.

http://hotdogfactory.blogspot.com/2005/07/...w-neighbor.html

[guyser]

Homolka in an Arar thread?

There must be an equivalent "Godwins law" that applies here.

Methinks you are grasping at straws. Karla????? You might need more than Aleve.

[Leafless]

Homolka in an Arar thread?

There must be an equivalent "Godwins law" that applies here.

Methinks you are grasping at straws. Karla????? You might need more than Aleve.

I don't have to grasp.

A proof is a proof.

Have you checked 'Charter of the French Language'.

Edited June 7, 2008 by Leafless

[CANADIEN]

Looks like the US Government may finally get to the TRUTH a Canadian inquiry got to... that maher Arar, a CANADIAN citizen, was detained by the US Government, then deported to Syria where he was tortured, even though he had committed NO crime. That our security apparatus first bungled its job by fingering Arar, then engaged in a smear campaign against him upon his return. And that there is very good likehood that the US sent him to Syria because they expected he would be tortured.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... And that there is very good likehood that the US sent him to Syria because they expected he would be tortured.

Being imprisoned for not complying with mandatory military service in his native Syria is not torture. If Arar shows up in the US again, send him back to Syria!

[CANADIEN]

Being imprisoned for not complying with mandatory military service in his native Syria is not torture. If Arar shows up in the US again, send him back to Syria!

Being held in a rat-infested cell aand beaten regularly in an attempt to obtain confession of alleged terrorist acts IS torture. The US Government did not ship Arar to Syria because they suspected him of having skipped military service over there. It shipped him there because it expected the Syrian authorities to do its dirty work for him.

[HisSelf]

So Syria promised the US not to torture him? Why was one foreign government left with the task of negotiating the fate of a Canadian citizen with another foreign government? Pee-you.

Arar should have been sent back to Canada first so Canadian officials could handle him.

Thank heavens Arar had somebody on his side - his wife. Were it not for her, I have no doubt he would have died in Syria, along with what I am sure are a lot of people treated similarly by the US.

[bush_cheney2004]

Being held in a rat-infested cell aand beaten regularly in an attempt to obtain confession of alleged terrorist acts IS torture. The US Government did not ship Arar to Syria because they suspected him of having skipped military service over there. It shipped him there because it expected the Syrian authorities to do its dirty work for him.

No, the US shipped million dollar lottery winner Arar to Jordan because the RCMP fingered him as a perp.....the rest was easy! Next time he will not have to be so cheap and book a connecting flight through New York.

Arar was not tortured...he was imprisoned.

[bush_cheney2004]

So Syria promised the US not to torture him? Why was one foreign government left with the task of negotiating the fate of a Canadian citizen with another foreign government? Pee-you.

Because a third foreign government effed up.

Arar should have been sent back to Canada first so Canadian officials could handle him.

He was...eventually.....for time served in Syria as a deserter.

Thank heavens Arar had somebody on his side - his wife. Were it not for her, I have no doubt he would have died in Syria, along with what I am sure are a lot of people treated similarly by the US.

Lots of people die in Syria....what makes Syrian Arar so special?

[CANADIEN]

So Syria promised the US not to torture him? Why was one foreign government left with the task of negotiating the fate of a Canadian citizen with another foreign government? Pee-you.

Arar should have been sent back to Canada first so Canadian officials could handle him.

Thank heavens Arar had somebody on his side - his wife. Were it not for her, I have no doubt he would have died in Syria, along with what I am sure are a lot of people treated similarly by the US.

The Canadian government does not do torture, that's why he was not sent back here

[CANADIEN]

Because a third foreign government effed up.

He was...eventually.....for time served in Syria as a deserter.

Lots of people die in Syria....what makes Syrian Arar so special?

No amount of your total personal lack of morality will change the fact that an innocent man was tortured and that the US Government wanted it to happen.

Edited June 7, 2008 by CANADIEN

[JB Globe]

There are many questions to be answered in the Arar case, basically a case born out of Canada's open immigration system and 'Fundamental Freedoms' given to "Everyone" in Canada.

How so? Explain.

[bush_cheney2004]

No amount of your total personal lack of morality will change the fact that an innocent man was tortured and that the US Government wanted it to happen.

Of course not...it's not intended to change anything. I am the evil voice of.....reality. All "innocent men" please wait in hell, except for the darling anti-USA pawn Muher Arar.

[JB Globe]

Arar was not tortured...he was imprisoned.

That's your own personal "hunch," and nothing more, sorry.

The O'Conner inquiry found that he was tortured, and the Conservatives, Liberals, NDP, Bloc & Greens have all accepted these findings, as well as the Canadian public.

I mean, really - do you know something Harper doesn't? Do you have access to information O'Conner didn't?

Or did you arrive at this conclusion because you dismissed all evidence to the contrary as "lies?"

[HisSelf]

No amount of your total personal lack of morality ...

Have you tried the ignore feature? I find it works wonders for weeding out the chafe.

[bush_cheney2004]

That's your own personal "hunch," and nothing more, sorry.

The O'Conner inquiry found that he was tortured, and the Conservatives, Liberals, NDP, Bloc & Greens have all accepted these findings, as well as the Canadian public.

They had too....Canada screwed up!

I mean, really - do you know something Harper doesn't? Do you have access to information O'Conner didn't?

Or did you arrive at this conclusion because you dismissed all evidence to the contrary as "lies?"

Works for me....lies seem to be quite popular on all sides. The conditions for prison life in Syria may not meet your standards.

[CANADIEN]

That's your own personal "hunch," and nothing more, sorry.

The O'Conner inquiry found that he was tortured, and the Conservatives, Liberals, NDP, Bloc & Greens have all accepted these findings, as well as the Canadian public.

I mean, really - do you know something Harper doesn't? Do you have access to information O'Conner didn't?

Or did you arrive at this conclusion because you dismissed all evidence to the contrary as "lies?"

IN BC's world, the US government can do no wrong.

[bush_cheney2004]

IN BC's world, the US government can do no wrong.

It has nothing to do with right or wrong. A Syrian-Canadian national lands in the USA at the height of post 9/11 hysteria and the RCMP fingers him as a perp, and Canada does nothing to repatriate him.

This decision was an administrative no brainer.....deport his ass back to nation of birth via Jordan, as happens to thousands of other nationals each year.

What makes Arar's case so special? Alleged (unproven) torture?

From Wiki:

The Canadian government had concluded that he was tortured based upon unsworn interviews with Arar and others.[7] Standards set down by the Istanbul Protocol for determining the effects of torture were not used.

[CANADIEN]

It has nothing to do with right or wrong. A Syrian-Canadian national lands in the USA at the height of post 9/11 hysteria and the RCMP fingers him as a perp, and Canada does nothing to repatriate him.

This decision was an administrative no brainer.....deport his ass back to nation of birth via Jordan, as happens to thousands of other nationals each year.

What makes Arar's case so special? Alleged (unproven) torture?

From Wiki:

The Canadian government had concluded that he was tortured based upon unsworn interviews with Arar and others.[7] Standards set down by the Istanbul Protocol for determining the effects of torture were not used.

I forgot... right and wrong are concepts you ignore on purpose. And Canada has admitted its role in Arar's ordeal... does not mitigate one bit the US's government own responsibility.

I would ask what makes Arar's case so special to YOU that you will ignore facts because they point to wrongdoings But you would a conscience to even get that.

You're on ignore.

[bush_cheney2004]

I forgot... right and wrong are concepts you ignore on purpose. And Canada has admitted its role in Arar's ordeal... does not mitigate one bit the US's government own responsibility.

I would ask what makes Arar's case so special to YOU that you will ignore facts because they point to wrongdoings But you would a conscience to even get that.

You're on ignore.

Ding ding! Another winner. "Ignore" is a badge of honor.

The "facts" are very straightforward...except for the allegations of torture. But you also want to "ignore" that.

The US government is not responsible for the collective guilt-fest exhibited by many (but not all) Canadians. Mr. Arar is free to pursue claims against the US government in court, but has already failed to prevail. Your tax dollars may fund another run at Uncle Sam.

Arar remains on the no-fly watch list simply because he has no right to enter or transit US air space. Why would he wish to return to the land of "wrongdoing" anyway? Perhaps he wishes to land another lottery ticket?

Edited June 7, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[HisSelf]

O man. Get a life.