Smear tactics in Ottawa

Fortunata · May 20, 2008

Why not hold a whine and cheese party to discuss the discomfort of some that the natural governing party is out of power.

That's funny - the only whining we hear from the CPC and from the herd here, and some are more herdier than others - is ..... but the Liberals.

It's either attack or whine from these clowns.

Fortunata · May 20, 2008

The Tories are probably hoping to bankrupt the Liberals with the lawsuit now.

Earlier on in his tenure Harper did say he wanted to destroy the Liberals (like no opposition is good for the country, but that doesn't seem to concern him). I guess bankruptcy is a good enough way, much more civilized than in other countries where they jail or kill their opposition. Just another one of our Steve's endearing qualities.

Michael Bluth · May 20, 2008

Earlier on in his tenure Harper did say he wanted to destroy the Liberals (like no opposition is good for the country, but that doesn't seem to concern him). I guess bankruptcy is a good enough way, much more civilized than in other countries where they jail or kill their opposition. Just another one of our Steve's endearing qualities.

The Liberals aren't an opposition party. They are Canada's Natural Governing party - gotta keep the hogs at the trough.

The looming bankruptcy of the Liberal Party of Canada is due to their terrible compromise choice of wee Steph as leader. A man with no endearing qualities.

jbg · May 20, 2008

The Liberals aren't an opposition party. They are Canada's Natural Governing party - gotta keep the hogs at the trough.
The looming bankruptcy of the Liberal Party of Canada is due to their terrible compromise choice of wee Steph as leader. A man with no endearing qualities.

No party that stands down on repeated confidence votes, well into a mandate, is an "opposition party". Whilte there is no obligation to harpoon the Government on their opening Speech from the Thron, this round of abstentions, walkouts and votes with the Government is a bit much.

BubberMiley · May 20, 2008

Would embody or personify be appropriate adjectives?

Of course not. They're verbs. :lol:

capricorn · May 20, 2008

Earlier on in his tenure Harper did say he wanted to destroy the Liberals (like no opposition is good for the country, but that doesn't seem to concern him).

I think that's precisely how many Canadians felt after being fleeced by the then governing Liberals. I was a Liberal supporter but I ended up wanting the demise of the party. Now I'm just sad and frustrated that the Liberals are not acting as a proper opposition and government-in-waiting. IMO only a new Liberal leader will give hope that Parliament will work for the people. Unless Dion stepped down, which he won't, that can't happen until after the next election.

Michael Bluth · May 20, 2008

I think that's precisely how many Canadians felt after being fleeced by the then governing Liberals. I was a Liberal supporter but I ended up wanting the demise of the party. Now I'm just sad and frustrated that the Liberals are not acting as a proper opposition and government-in-waiting. IMO only a new Liberal leader will give hope that Parliament will work for the people. Unless Dion stepped down, which he won't, that can't happen until after the next election.

Destruction of the Liberal party of Canada would be a good thing.

Isn't it interesting how the Liberals maintain their arrogance even in opposition? When the topic of the destruction of the LPC comes up it is equated with the elimination of opposition in Canada. Hello? The NDP and the Bloc exist too....

jdobbin · May 20, 2008

No you just pointed out the arrogance of the liberal party.

Ah, the old... "but the Liberals" argument.

When will the right wing recognize that this doesn't help their cause?

jdobbin · May 20, 2008

Blessed are they that go round in circles, for they shall be called wheels -

Blessed are the right wing who go along for the ride because they can't resist from jumping on.

The Conservatives just keep tarnishing their own image each time they lash out at their critics. It is why they are stuck in the polls even with a wounded Liberal party.

Keepitsimple · May 20, 2008

Ah, the old... "but the Liberals" argument.
When will the right wing recognize that this doesn't help their cause?

The Conservative approach indeed seems to be working. Here's a video with Nick Nanos' latest poll on Leadership, Competence and Vision. The breakdown shows that Harper maintains a commanding and unwavering lead in all three areas - but the real interesting part is that all three of the opposition leaders see a significant drop in their numbers (Harper stays the same) - while the unsure/undecided goes up by an almost identical number. I can't see any other reasoning other than voters are getting upset with either an ineffective opposition, their constant tempests in teapots - or a combination of both.

Nik on the Numbers Video: http://www.nikonthenumbers.com/topics/show/67

Edited May 20, 2008 by Keepitsimple

Michael Bluth · May 20, 2008

Ah, the old... "but the Liberals" argument.
When will the right wing recognize that this doesn't help their cause?

Dunno seems like the left wing is still using *scary* *scary* *scary*, although that one hasn't worked for four years.

Guess it's a good thing the Liberals still have the same 'braintrust' running things. A good thing for the Conservatives that is. :lol:

jdobbin · May 21, 2008

The Conservative approach indeed seems to be working. Here's a video with Nick Nanos' latest poll on Leadership, Competence and Vision. The breakdown shows that Harper maintains a commanding and unwavering lead in all three areas - but the real interesting part is that all three of the opposition leaders see a significant drop in their numbers (Harper stays the same) - while the unsure/undecided goes up by an almost identical number. I can't see any other reasoning other than voters are getting upset with either an ineffective opposition, their constant tempests in teapots - or a combination of both.

I've seen this poll. I believe it is already posted in the polls thread.

The same week it came out, Strategic Counsel reported that the Tories were ahead of the Liberals 34 to 31. It would seem the only thing keeping the Tories ahead is Harper.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...tional/Ontario/

So is the Conservative approach working if the Tories are in a static position after the last election?

Keepitsimple · May 21, 2008

I've seen this poll. I believe it is already posted in the polls thread.
The same week it came out, Strategic Counsel reported that the Tories were ahead of the Liberals 34 to 31. It would seem the only thing keeping the Tories ahead is Harper.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...tional/Ontario/

So is the Conservative approach working if the Tories are in a static position after the last election?

In between elections, it's easy to continue to park your vote with your favourite/usual party.....but when these people go to the polls, I would think the leadership, competence and vision will add to Harper's numbers - and that's why the Nanos survey is so interesting. Put it another way, the Nanos numbers show that Harper is holding his own and can clearly tap into the undecided/unsure. The opposition parties are losing ground to the undecid/unsure. You are right that it's not yet showing up in the party numbers but when an election is held - it's all about the leader - always has been and nothing will change that. Either the voters want to vote a leader in or they want to kick a leader out.......so when the rubber hits the road, people seriously consider the Nanos poll attributes - and right now, that bodes well for the Conservatives.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Keepitsimple

jdobbin · May 21, 2008

In between elections, it's easy to continue to park your vote with your favourite/usual party.....but when these people go to the polls, I would think the leadership, competence and vision will add to Harper's numbers - and that's why the Nanos survey is so interesting. Put it another way, the Nanos numbers show that Harper is holding his own and can clearly tap into the undecided/unsure. The opposition parties are losing ground to the undecid/unsure. You are right that it's not yet showing up in the party numbers but when an election is held - it's all about the leader - always has been and nothing will change that. Either the voters want to vote a leader in or they want to kick a leader out.......so when the rubber hits the road, people seriously consider the Nanos poll attributes - and right now, that bodes well for the Conservatives.

I keep hearing how it is going to be big win for the Tories because of leadership and while I think the Tories are going to win again, I don't think it will be a majority. I just have seen those type of numbers. Harper has not carried the party into majority territory.

BubberMiley · May 21, 2008

I keep hearing how it is going to be big win for the Tories because of leadership and while I think the Tories are going to win again, I don't think it will be a majority. I just have seen those type of numbers. Harper has not carried the party into majority territory.

I think you're very charitable. I think most Liberals don't believe that they can win with such a seemingly weak leader, but I think Dion would do well with the exposure of an election. Once he becomes more familiar with Canadians, his idiosyncracies will come across as more likable and endearing than Harper's serial killer demeanour. And since the CPC vote is largely concentrated in rural and Alberta ridings, my guess is the Liberals would squeak through with a minority.

And then the whining will become excruciating.

capricorn · May 21, 2008

I think Dion would do well with the exposure of an election.

You're such a dreamer bubber.

Harper's serial killer demeanour.

First time I've heard this one. A bit over the top, don't you think? It sort of places you in the "desperate smear" category.

And since the CPC vote is largely concentrated in rural and Alberta ridings, my guess is the Liberals would squeak through with a minority.

Earth to bubber, Earth to bubber.....

BubberMiley · May 21, 2008

A bit over the top, don't you think? It sort of places you in the "desperate smear" category.

Don't get me wrong---I'm not saying he's a serial killer. I'm sure he's a swell guy, but his eyes are off-putting. It's more a biological than a character trait. Nevertheless, those cold blue eyes scare off voters, particularly women.

But when two parties generally poll within the margin of error of each other and one of the parties has large concentrations of votes in particular ridings, I don't think I need to be called back to earth to think the Liberals have a better chance than they think.

Michael Bluth · May 21, 2008

Nevertheless, those cold blue eyes scare off voters, particularly women.

So Harper should get coloured contacts to advance his cause with women?

But when two parties generally poll within the margin of error of each other and one of the parties has large concentrations of votes in particular ridings, I don't think I need to be called back to earth to think the Liberals have a better chance than they think.

Large concentrations of votes in particular ridings?

You mean the Liberals in Central Toronto, Brampton and Mississauga?

You think the Liberals have a better chance than they think they do?

Is this because of a greater level of political sophistication on your part? Perhaps the Liberal Party of Canada should hire you. You seem pretty sure of yourself...

Who's Doing What? · May 21, 2008

This story broke more than a year after Cadman died.
Seems like the perfect setup for a pseudo-scandal. Create a scandal that is sensational, but cannot be proved. Sadly for the Liberals the public has grown wise to their 'Barney the Dinosaur' tactics which were seen as 'successful' despite the fact that Stockwell Day is the second worst OLO ever! (At least Steph has knocked Stock outta the number one spot )

The only reason the story broke was because the tape was leaked to get exposure for the book. Don't you understand how the world works?

What better way to get exposure for your book than to have a juicy piece of it splashed across every TV and Newspaper for a week?

IF the publisher/author hadn't leaked the tape there would be nothing. This was no "pseudo-scandal" of the Liberals making.

jdobbin · May 21, 2008

But when two parties generally poll within the margin of error of each other and one of the parties has large concentrations of votes in particular ridings, I don't think I need to be called back to earth to think the Liberals have a better chance than they think.

The Tories can't win anymore seats in Alberta and only one more in Saskatchewan. They need to win Ontario and when ministers like Finley are fighting for their lives, you have to wonder how they are going to achieve a majority.

capricorn · May 21, 2008

I'm sure he's a swell guy, but his eyes are off-putting. It's more a biological than a character trait. Nevertheless, those cold blue eyes scare off voters, particularly women.

Chretien had a twinkle in his eye and look where that got us and the Liberal party. :lol:

But when two parties generally poll within the margin of error of each other and one of the parties has large concentrations of votes in particular ridings, I don't think I need to be called back to earth to think the Liberals have a better chance than they think.

keepitsimple said it well. When it comes time to vote, the leader's appeal or lack thereof often sways the undecided voters. In that regard, Harper's numbers say it all.

Who's Doing What? · May 21, 2008

No sense in actually thinking these guys would be honest about whatwas offered. Further evidence of non transparency and non openess!
It may well come back to haunt them.

No, I have no illusions about CPC honesty and integrity, however the smartest thing for them to do is keep quiet. As long as they do, the cops can't prove anything.

Michael Bluth · May 21, 2008

keepitsimple said it well. When it comes time to vote, the leader's appeal or lack thereof often sways the undecided voters. In that regard, Harper's numbers say it all.

If Steph and the gang who couldn't shoot straight want to make it a campaign about leadership ... bring it on!

Alta4ever · May 21, 2008

Ah, the old... "but the Liberals" argument.
When will the right wing recognize that this doesn't help their cause?

Well well well look who likes to sling the mud, but can't take it when slung back.

Look who thinks they know what will help or hinder the center right. Ah for the days of a weak divided right wing, when any fool could take the liberals to a majority even with only 36% of the popular vote.

Alta4ever · May 21, 2008

Don't get me wrong---I'm not saying he's a serial killer. I'm sure he's a swell guy, but his eyes are off-putting. It's more a biological than a character trait. Nevertheless, those cold blue eyes scare off voters, particularly women.
But when two parties generally poll within the margin of error of each other and one of the parties has large concentrations of votes in particular ridings, I don't think I need to be called back to earth to think the Liberals have a better chance than they think.

If you didn't mean it that way why would you say it that way? Or is it that whole thing of trying to paint the center right as scary?

Nice Spin