Alta4ever Posted May 19, 2008 Report Posted May 19, 2008 Why give it up while there many questions left to be answered?http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/426725 The questions were answered, you just didn't like the answers. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
jdobbin Posted May 19, 2008 Report Posted May 19, 2008 (edited) The questions were answered, you just didn't like the answers. Really. What were the financial details? How much? Covering what? And why didn't the family seem to know about Cadman running again? What was the $1 million policy all about? Edited May 19, 2008 by jdobbin Quote
Alta4ever Posted May 19, 2008 Report Posted May 19, 2008 (edited) Really. What were the financial details? How much? Covering what? And why didn't the family seem to know about Cadman running again? What was the $1 million policy all about? The million dollar policy didn't exist/wasn't offered. The details about the campaign help were released to the media. The questions were answered you just didn't like the answer. Admit you were wrong. Edited May 20, 2008 by Alta4ever Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
jdobbin Posted May 19, 2008 Report Posted May 19, 2008 (edited) The million dollar policy didn't exist/wasn't offered. The details about the campaign help we released to the media.The questions were answered you just didn't like the answer. Admit you were wrong. Seems to me that the recording of Harper indicates some sort of knowledge to the contrary. Why can't the right wing admit that Cadman's widow said there was a policy? Edited May 19, 2008 by jdobbin Quote
Who's Doing What? Posted May 19, 2008 Report Posted May 19, 2008 Seems to me that the recording of Harper indicates some sort of knowledge to the contrary.Why can't the right wing admit that Cadman's widow said there was a policy? The bottom line and sad fact of this matter is that with Cadman dead everything he told his wife and daughter is just hearsay. Unfortunately as long as the CPC keep quiet there simply is not enough evidence to lay charges or go to trial. Quote Harper differed with his party on some key policy issues; in 1995, for example, he was one of only two Reform MPs to vote in favour of federal legislation requiring owners to register their guns. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/election/bio/harper.html "You've got to remember that west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into western Canadian society." (Stephen Harper, Report Newsmagazine, January 22, 2001)
Michael Bluth Posted May 19, 2008 Report Posted May 19, 2008 The bottom line and sad fact of this matter is that with Cadman dead everything he told his wife and daughter is just hearsay. This story broke more than a year after Cadman died. Seems like the perfect setup for a pseudo-scandal. Create a scandal that is sensational, but cannot be proved. Sadly for the Liberals the public has grown wise to their 'Barney the Dinosaur' tactics which were seen as 'successful' despite the fact that Stockwell Day is the second worst OLO ever! (At least Steph has knocked Stock outta the number one spot ) Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
Shakeyhands Posted May 19, 2008 Report Posted May 19, 2008 The bottom line and sad fact of this matter is that with Cadman dead everything he told his wife and daughter is just hearsay. Unfortunately as long as the CPC keep quiet there simply is not enough evidence to lay charges or go to trial. No sense in actually thinking these guys would be honest about whatwas offered. Further evidence of non transparency and non openess! It may well come back to haunt them. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
jdobbin Posted May 19, 2008 Report Posted May 19, 2008 The bottom line and sad fact of this matter is that with Cadman dead everything he told his wife and daughter is just hearsay. I agree. I still thought it was important for the RCMP to investigate the claim which the Tories were adamant against. The right wing keep claiming the bribery charge came from the Liberals when clearly it didn't. When witnesses die, it is usually difficult to build a case or find evidence. However, there is a lot of smoke around which usually means there was a fire. Unfortunately as long as the CPC keep quiet there simply is not enough evidence to lay charges or go to trial. However, the libel charges that the Tories say they will go through no matter what the Liberal response is will give the Liberals the opportunity to put Harper on the stand to answer questions. I doubt very much that the judge is going to allow prevarication and insults to be the response. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted May 19, 2008 Report Posted May 19, 2008 I agree. I still thought it was important for the RCMP to investigate the claim which the Tories were adamant against.The right wing keep claiming the bribery charge came from the Liberals when clearly it didn't. When witnesses die, it is usually difficult to build a case or find evidence. However, there is a lot of smoke around which usually means there was a fire. However, the libel charges that the Tories say they will go through no matter what the Liberal response is will give the Liberals the opportunity to put Harper on the stand to answer questions. I doubt very much that the judge is going to allow prevarication and insults to be the response. I'm hoping that somehow, the trial will force the original tape of Harper's conversation with Tom. Z. out into the open. Clearly, the tape that was provided to the media does not start at the beginning and as such, loses all context. I have not heard any reasoning as to why the publisher will not release it. It's mind-boggling (or is it?) that the media have not put pressure on the publisher or at least continually raised that point. Dobbin, you're a smart guy - and pretty thorough - so I'm sure you've heard the recording....there's absolutely no way that the recording provided to the media is complete. As I said....I hope the trial will get to the bottom of it. Having said that, it may not. The issue at hand in the lawsuit relates to the inflammatory remarks from the Liberal website (immoral, unethical, illegal, etc). Those remarks are so over the top that there may be no need to hear the full recording. Quote Back to Basics
jdobbin Posted May 19, 2008 Report Posted May 19, 2008 I'm hoping that somehow, the trial will force the original tape of Harper's conversation with Tom. Z. out into the open. Clearly, the tape that was provided to the media does not start at the beginning and as such, loses all context. I have not heard any reasoning as to why the publisher will not release it. It's mind-boggling (or is it?) that the media have not put pressure on the publisher or at least continually raised that point. Dobbin, you're a smart guy - and pretty thorough - so I'm sure you've heard the recording....there's absolutely no way that the recording provided to the media is complete. I have no idea what the extent of the tape is. It is why I thought it was important for Parliament to find out. The charge pf bribery is one that the Cadman family made and it is why I thought the RCMP should look into it. The Tories have been adamant that neither was necessary. As I said....I hope the trial will get to the bottom of it. Having said that, it may not. The issue at hand in the lawsuit relates to the inflammatory remarks from the Liberal website (immoral, unethical, illegal, etc). Those remarks are so over the top that there may be no need to hear the full recording. We'll have to see what the judge decides. The Tories are probably hoping to bankrupt the Liberals with the lawsuit now. The Liberals will have to argue political free speech as well as put the Tories on the defensive about the whole issue of Cadman and what they did to try and convince him. That will likely entail calling Harper, the individuals who made the offer and the family to testify. It could get very messy. Quote
capricorn Posted May 19, 2008 Report Posted May 19, 2008 The Tories are probably hoping to bankrupt the Liberals with the lawsuit now. The Liberals will have to argue political free speech as well as put the Tories on the defensive about the whole issue of Cadman and what they did to try and convince him. That will likely entail calling Harper, the individuals who made the offer and the family to testify. It could get very messy. Maybe the Liberals will settle out of court making all speculation moot. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
jdobbin Posted May 19, 2008 Report Posted May 19, 2008 (edited) Maybe the Liberals will settle out of court making all speculation moot. The Tories have already said they won't do that or accept an apology. It is a bit of a gambit on their part and it ensures the Liberal party lawyers will ask that Harper testifies. Edited May 19, 2008 by jdobbin Quote
Keepitsimple Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 The Tories have already said they won't do that or accept an apology. It is a bit of a gambit on their part and it ensures the Liberal party lawyers will ask that Harper testifies. Harper has no choice. If in fact a shady offer was actually made, Dona Cadman believes that Harper didn't know about it - and that is backed up by the fact she is running for the Tories.......and Harper has steadfastly said that he knew that two high-ranking officials were going to talk with Cadman but he didn't know the details except that maybe they would make sure that he didn't end up in debt for running in an election. As a result, he just cannot allow accusations of complicity in bribery, unethical conduct, immoral conduct and illegal conduct to hang in the air with an out-of-court settlement. Nothing short of a complete, public unqualified apology will suffice. Quote Back to Basics
jdobbin Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) Nothing short of a complete, public unqualified apology will suffice. Which the Tories say they won't accept anyway. They are hoping that if this goes against the Liberal party, it will bankrupt the party. The Liberal lawyers are going to tear Harper apart on the stand to fight this. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...hub=CTVNewsAt11 Conservative James Moore told reporters Friday that Harper intends to push forward with the lawsuit, even if the Liberals apologize. So much for the apology talk we have heard here. The Liberal defence is going to have to play hardball if it goes to court. Everyone loses. Decima has already indicated what the polling has shown in regards to the civil lawsuit route. Edited May 20, 2008 by jdobbin Quote
Michael Bluth Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 Nothing short of a complete, public unqualified apology will suffice. Exactly. Despite any unsubstantiated Liberal cheerleader claims to the opposite that would suffice. Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
jbg Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 The Liberals will have to argue political free speech as well as put the Tories on the defensive about the whole issue of Cadman and what they did to try and convince him.Maybe this has a happy ending, with the Liberals understanding the value of American-style pure free speech. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Alta4ever Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 Which the Tories say they won't accept anyway. They are hoping that if this goes against the Liberal party, it will bankrupt the party. The Liberal lawyers are going to tear Harper apart on the stand to fight this. Are their any liberal lawyers left who haven't been given a supreme court post? Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
jdobbin Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) Are their any liberal lawyers left who haven't been given a supreme court post? Plenty. However, Harper has to appoint former Tory ministers of justice to the courts first. He's already done it once with a New Brunswick former minister in April. Edited May 20, 2008 by jdobbin Quote
Alta4ever Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 Plenty. However, Harper has to appoint former Tory ministers of justice to the courts first. He's already done it once with a New Brunswick former minister in April. I maybe understand your complaining when there are more tories then liberals on the supreme court benches, until that time your whining will fall on deaf ears. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
jbg Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 I maybe understand your complaining when there are more tories then liberals on the supreme court benches, until that time your whining will fall on deaf ears.Why not hold a whine and cheese party to discuss the discomfort of some that the natural governing party is out of power. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Shakeyhands Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 (edited) Why not hold a whine and cheese party to discuss the discomfort of some that the natural governing party is out of power. good one! EDIT: Forgot to add the sarcasm tag. Edited May 20, 2008 by Shakeyhands Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
scribblet Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 Why not hold a whine and cheese party to discuss the discomfort of some that the natural governing party is out of power. LOL Blessed are they that go round in circles, for they shall be called wheels - Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
jdobbin Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 I maybe understand your complaining when there are more tories then liberals on the supreme court benches, until that time your whining will fall on deaf ears. No complaints on my part. Just love pointing out the hypocrisy of the Conservatives of Canada. Quote
Alta4ever Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 No complaints on my part. Just love pointing out the hypocrisy of the Conservatives of Canada. No you just pointed out the arrogance of the liberal party. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Michael Bluth Posted May 20, 2008 Report Posted May 20, 2008 No you just pointed out the arrogance of the liberal party. Would embody or personify be appropriate adjectives? Quote No one has ever defeated the Liberals with a divided conservative family. - Hon. Jim Prentice
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