Harper pays tribute to Holocaust victims

[jbg]

It is nice to see that Canada now has a PM who doesn't hedge his true feelings, and moral feelings about people and historical events. The Jewish Holocaust was, without question, one of the worst atrocities of modern times and perhaps all times. People, with ruthless efficiency, set up the mechanics for killing people, primarily though not entirely Jews, and pursued it with ruthless, grim efficiency. With a few sterling exceptions such as Anne Frank's family, the Danish people and some shining stars elsewhere, much of Europe was happy to be rid of its "Jewish Problem" and its fickle love/hate relationship with the Jews.

Of course, to their perception, Hitler was clearing out other "undesirables" as well; gays, gypsies, and others. Many were hoping that Europe would get the closed, whitebread society it was hankering for. Excerpts (link) follow:

Harper pays tribute to Holocaust victims

STEVEN CHASE

Globe and Mail Update

April 5, 2008 at 10:46 AM EDT

AUSCHWITZ — A visibly moved Stephen Harper paid homage to the victims of the Holocaust today with a visit to the former Nazi death camp of Auschwitz in southern Poland.

His visit to Auschwitz — capping a five-day trip to Europe — included a visit to a wall commemorating the thousands of people shot to death in an Auschwitz courtyard, many of whom were Polish political prisoners.

The Prime Minister left his retinue and walked alone to the Auschwitz execution wall where the Canadian government had placed a bouquet of red and flowers.

Mr. Harper knelt down at the wall and bowed his head as if in prayer, pausing in that position for about 30 seconds.

When he got up the Prime Minister turned around and appeared to swallow hard as if the event had significantly affected him emotionally.

Later, the Conservative leader signed a book of remembrance at Auschwitz, leaving a sombre and respectful message that called on God to protect humankind.

"We are witness here to the vestiges of unspeakable cruelty, horror and death. Let us never forget these things and work always to prevent their repetition," Mr. Harper wrote.

"Lord bless the souls of those who suffered and perished here and deliver us from evil."

*************

He (Bernie Farber, head of Canadian Jewish Congress) said the trip reflects Mr. Harper's "keen awareness of the need for vigilance and the use of the tool of memory to fight intolerance" today.

"An individual act by a world leader to visit this place of darkness becomes a beacon of light and gives voice to the ghosts of Auschwitz when they cry out 'Never again'. Canadians should be proud of a Prime Minister who took it upon himself to make this visit to this place at this time."

[eyeball]

Many were hoping that Europe would get the closed, whitebread society it was hankering for.

Yup, kind of like the hankering you see amongst some of Harper's rank and file supporters.

"An individual act by a world leader to visit this place of darkness becomes a beacon of light and gives voice to the ghosts of Auschwitz when they cry out 'Never again'.

I wonder if this means we're going to Darfur? On the other hand perhaps we could rescue as many Darfuri as we can and let them immigrate here. I bet that's what Jesus would do, I'd bet ya anything at all.

Edited April 5, 2008 by eyeball

[capricorn]

Yup, kind of like the hankering you see amongst some of Harper's rank and file supporters.

I wonder if this means we're going to Darfur? On the other hand perhaps we could rescue as many Darfuri as we can and let them immigrate here. I bet that's what Jesus would do, I'd bet ya anything at all.

You're nothing but a troll.

[Borg]

If someone gets a chance to visit a place like this, and they are not moved - well, I would wonder about them - and not in a positive way.

The fact is that a visit to Auschwitz, Dachau, Buchenwald - the area or the remaining buildings - or any other killing factory opens ones eyes to how bad things really were.

Makes one talk in whispers when they walk around those sites.

Borg

[Borg]

You're nothing but a troll.

In this case - and I am seldom one to not make a sensational or pointed comment - I would agree with you.

Simply not on.

Borg

[capricorn]

It is nice to see that Canada now has a PM who doesn't hedge his true feelings, and moral feelings about people and historical events.

Thanks for this post jbg. I'm certain PM Harper's demonstrative actions during this momentous visit were heartfelt and genuine. I'm glad it was so well reported.

[MontyBurns]

If someone gets a chance to visit a place like this, and they are not moved - well, I would wonder about them - and not in a positive way.

The fact is that a visit to Auschwitz, Dachau, Buchenwald - the area or the remaining buildings - or any other killing factory opens ones eyes to how bad things really were.

Makes one talk in whispers when they walk around those sites.

Borg

I felt similar to this when I travelled to the Czech Republic one time and visited some of the memorials/museams of communism. People in Canada have no idea what a totalitarian state is like. Communism is an ideology that very thoroughly destroys ones spirit. I thought communism was bad but I had no idea how bad it really was.

[eyeball]

You're nothing but a troll.

Sez you maybe.

With a few sterling exceptions such as Anne Frank's family, the Danish people and some shining stars elsewhere, much of Europe was happy to be rid of its "Jewish Problem" and its fickle love/hate relationship with the Jews.

Of course, to their perception, Hitler was clearing out other "undesirables" as well; gays, gypsies, and others. Many were hoping that Europe would get the closed, whitebread society it was hankering for.

In light of the thread's title was the corresponding post the appropriate place for the quoted observations? They were what I was responding to. What was it you didn't like, my reference to Jesus or immigration? Have you seen what some of Harper's rank and file supporters have been saying in other threads on immigration or the Christian basis of Canadian society or homosexuality and of course what Canadian society should aspire to?

Is this the appropriate forum for a thread that celebrates Harper's morality? Perhaps I should have asked what the ghosts of Auschwitz would do and just left Jesus out of it.

Edited April 6, 2008 by eyeball

[scribblet]

It is nice to see that Canada now has a PM who doesn't hedge his true feelings, and moral feelings about people and historical events. The Jewish Holocaust was, without question, one of the worst atrocities of modern times and perhaps all times. People, with ruthless efficiency, set up the mechanics for killing people, primarily though not entirely Jews, and pursued it with ruthless, grim efficiency. With a few sterling exceptions such as Anne Frank's family, the Danish people and some shining stars elsewhere, much of Europe was happy to be rid of its "Jewish Problem" and its fickle love/hate relationship with the Jews.

----

*************

He (Bernie Farber, head of Canadian Jewish Congress) said the trip reflects Mr. Harper's "keen awareness of the need for vigilance and the use of the tool of memory to fight intolerance" today.

"An individual act by a world leader to visit this place of darkness becomes a beacon of light and gives voice to the ghosts of Auschwitz when they cry out 'Never again'. Canadians should be proud of a Prime Minister who took it upon himself to make this visit to this place at this time."[/color][/indent]

Great post, thanks !!!

[M.Dancer]

Sez you maybe.

In light of the thread's title was the corresponding post the appropriate place for the quoted observations? They were what I was responding to. What was it you didn't like, my reference to Jesus or immigration? Have you seen what some of Harper's rank and file supporters have been saying in other threads on immigration or the Christian basis of Canadian society or homosexuality and of course what Canadian society should aspire to?

Is this the appropriate forum for a thread that celebrates Harper's morality? Perhaps I should have asked what the ghosts of Auschwitz would do and just left Jesus out of it.

Such sincere backpedaling and bovine excrement ....

[scribblet]

Such sincere backpedaling and bovine excrement ....

Is that the same as El Toro Poopoo

[guyser]

It is nice to see that Canada now has a PM who doesn't hedge his true feelings, and moral feelings about people and historical events.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to which PM has hedged their feelings?

He (Bernie Farber, head of Canadian Jewish Congress) said the trip reflects Mr. Harper's "keen awareness of the need for vigilance and the use of the tool of memory to fight intolerance" today.

"An individual act by a world leader to visit this place of darkness becomes a beacon of light and gives voice to the ghosts of Auschwitz when they cry out 'Never again'. Canadians should be proud of a Prime Minister who took it upon himself to make this visit to this place at this time."[/color][/indent]

Bernie was saying probably the same when Chretien visited. (ooopsie!)

National Post

Mr. Harper became the second Canadian prime minister after Jean Chretien in 1999 to visit Auschwitz, one of the worst killing grounds of the Holocaust.

His visit Saturday was sombre and low key, in comparison with the tears and raw emotion of the Holocaust survivors and descendents that accompanied Chretien

[jbg]

Yup, kind of like the hankering you see amongst some of Harper's rank and file supporters.

Any remote comparison of Americans or Canadians to pre-WW II Europeans is offensive and downright wrong. The fact is that the bigotry and swirling chaos of Europe created a tidal wave of emigrants, not all Jewish, as soon as the glories of the New World became generally known. This started as a trickle almost as soon as the US gained independence, mostly among Germans, and rose steadily through the 1800's, in the wake of the (deliberately caused) Irish potato famine and then in surging force after the 1880's. European common people were pushing for the end to barriers imposed by the royals to persecution of the Jews, who in many cases were their creditors. When these people got their way, we all know the results. Your comparison of Canadians and Americans who want immigrants who are willing to work and assimilate, and not others, to people who mounted a Holocaust is simply horrific.

I wonder if this means we're going to Darfur? On the other hand perhaps we could rescue as many Darfuri as we can and let them immigrate here. I bet that's what Jesus would do, I'd bet ya anything at all.

Indiana has some successful Dharfuri communities.

[sunsettommy]

Thank You Prime Minister!

[Shakeyhands]

Thank You Prime Minister!

????? For what exactly?

[Shakeyhands]

Thanks for this post jbg. I'm certain PM Harper's demonstrative actions during this momentous visit were heartfelt and genuine. I'm glad it was so well reported.

I really don't understand why this is a big deal let alone momentous?

[jbg]

I really don't understand why this is a big deal let alone momentous?

Learn some world history. It's a good thing to learn.

"Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it".

[Peter F]

I really don't understand why this is a big deal let alone momentous?

Neither do I. My daughter took a trip to there too. So have many many people. But, apparently, now that a second Canadian Prime Minister has visited, the Ghosts of Auschwitz can rest easy...

[WIP]

It is nice to see that Canada now has a PM who doesn't hedge his true feelings, and moral feelings about people and historical events. The Jewish Holocaust was, without question, one of the worst atrocities of modern times and perhaps all times. People, with ruthless efficiency, set up the mechanics for killing people, primarily though not entirely Jews, and pursued it with ruthless, grim efficiency.

Thanks for pointing out your thread, but are you that naive that you wouldn't consider that the primary purpose of the visit could be to provide a photo-op for a politician looking to turn his minority government into a majority and secure his term in office?

With a few sterling exceptions such as Anne Frank's family, the Danish people and some shining stars elsewhere, much of Europe was happy to be rid of its "Jewish Problem" and its fickle love/hate relationship with the Jews.

What love/hate relationship? Check your European history books, it was a hate, but ignore/ hate and kill relationship! At best, Jews were only tolerated for the skills they possessed that were usually in short supply during the Dark Ages and the Renaissance.

[jbg]

Thanks for pointing out your thread, but are you that naive that you wouldn't consider that the primary purpose of the visit could be to provide a photo-op for a politician looking to turn his minority government into a majority and secure his term in office?

Let's get one thing clear. The "Jewish ridings" are in 514 and 416, places where Harper is never going to pick up any help "to turn his minority government into a majority and secure his term in office".

What love/hate relationship? Check your European history books, it was a hate, but ignore/ hate and kill relationship! At best, Jews were only tolerated for the skills they possessed that were usually in short supply during the Dark Ages and the Renaissance.

So true.

[Argus]

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to which PM has hedged their feelings?

Bernie was saying probably the same when Chretien visited. (ooopsie!)

Chretien made the appropriate mouth noises, but when it came to Canadian policy he did indeed "hedge". Canada often sided with the Muslim world during its routine and pointless anti-Israeli motions, and kept quiet about their hypocrisy and bigotry. In fact, he kept pretty much quiet about human rights abuses in the world except in a very few, very small places where there were no Canadian economic interests.

I think Chretien was more of a lackey of wealthy corporate interests than any PM in history.

[Shakeyhands]

Learn some world history. It's a good thing to learn.

"Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it".

Condesending much? I'm very familiar with world history, thanks. I still fail to see why this is a big deal, thousands of people visit the camps and memorials every year, whats so special about Harper doing it?

[eyeball]

Any remote comparison of Americans or Canadians to pre-WW II Europeans is offensive and downright wrong. The fact is that the bigotry and swirling chaos of Europe created a tidal wave of emigrants, not all Jewish, as soon as the glories of the New World became generally known.

If the comparison is offensive its because no one like having their nose rubbed in their own poop. The fact is a lot of the bigotry is still with us.

This started as a trickle almost as soon as the US gained independence, mostly among Germans, and rose steadily through the 1800's, in the wake of the (deliberately caused) Irish potato famine and then in surging force after the 1880's.

Virtually every wave of immigrants who came over here faced bigotry on their arrival, just as often from the preceding wave as anyone.

European common people were pushing for the end to barriers imposed by the royals to persecution of the Jews, who in many cases were their creditors.

This doesn't square very well with your observation that - With a few sterling exceptions such as Anne Frank's family, the Danish people and some shining stars elsewhere, much of Europe was happy to be rid of its "Jewish Problem" and its fickle love/hate relationship with the Jews.

When these people got their way, we all know the results.

Which people, the royals who persecuted Jews, or the people throughout much of Europe who were happy to be rid of them? I think its fair to say that "much of" Europe is the same as saying "European common people" don't you"? "A few sterling exceptions" and "some shining stars" don't add up to much or indicate something that is common.

Your comparison of Canadians and Americans who want immigrants who are willing to work and assimilate, and not others, to people who mounted a Holocaust is simply horrific

Not as horrific as your fumbled attempt to cast "a few sterling exceptions" and "some shining stars" as also being something that was common to much of Europe. These clearly weren't according to you.

Indiana has some successful Dharfuri communities.

Good for Indiana.

[guyser]

Chretien made the appropriate mouth noises, but when it came to Canadian policy he did indeed "hedge". Canada often sided with the Muslim world during its routine and pointless anti-Israeli motions, and kept quiet about their hypocrisy and bigotry. In fact, he kept pretty much quiet about human rights abuses in the world except in a very few, very small places where there were no Canadian economic interests.

I think Chretien was more of a lackey of wealthy corporate interests than any PM in history.

Harper made appropriate mouth noises in his visit. The same as Chretien.

The point was two PMs have visited , yet it was made to appear as only one had and that the "one" was deserving of extraordinary kudos.

So Muslims, human rights ,lackey are merely filler here.

[capricorn]

Harper made appropriate mouth noises in his visit.

Actually, it is reported he did not speak to reporters at all. He conducted himself with decorum as required on such a momentous visit.

The wall where Harper laid a wreath and prayer is where thousands of prisoners had been lined up and shot.

A book of remembrance is located in what was an early version of the camp's gas chambers.

"We are witnesses to the vestiges of unspeakable cruelty, horror and death. Let us never forget these things and work always to prevent their repetition. Lord, bless the souls of those who suffered and perished here and deliver them from evil," Harper wrote. He didn't speak to reporters.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...80405?hub=World

(bolding is mine)

But of course, his detractors coined this visit a photo-op. What else would you expect.