Aboriginal Self-Government

[guyser]

LMAO...REALLY? great grammar by the way.

You recognizing success is about as likely as it landing in your mirror. But you can always hope!

Hmm..."land in your mirror" ?

or...

government and the 'citizens' they favor..

Favour, not favor. There are more, but the point is made.

Something about glass houses.....

Carry on.

[charter.rights]

All I know is British Columbia and in the 1970's in BRITISH COLUMBIA I went to school with numerous natives (rural school not "urban" school).

I grew up in the sparsely populated Cariboo.

The kids would be bussed from Alexis Creek, Anaham (sp) Reserve, the Chilkoot (sp) etc. Some of those kids even had to spend the week away from their families in order to attend school. As far as I know there was no "dorm" at the school and those kids just stayed with other families. My bus ride was only 45 minutes so I got to go home everyday.

But no doubt you believe those kids should not have been ferretted out to other families, but remain uneducated but at home on the rez right.

I have lived in areas of natives and not one, NOT ONE has had an immediate relative who had any experience with residential schools. And those who do mention it (like here on the interet) it's always my uncle's cousin's step sister's half brother's aunt or something like that.

SO yes, I was going on my personal experience. Like the Jews, there is no "real" history regarding natives.... its so muddied by propaganda that it is virtually impossible to find out (link or no link) what is real history and what is made up.

I may be ignorant of the residential housing issue but I know success when I see it and it ain't on no rez that's for sure.

You still don't get it. What happens in isolation isn't what is happening in the real world. You just proved that. Yet in the 70's there was a movement afoot to resist the spiriting away of children from reserves, it was still taking place in remote reserves. They weren't "ferreted out to other families" either they were stolen, stripped of any visible or audible signs of being native and institutionalized under guard in dormitories. They were there not only against their will but also the will of their families and communities. Prior to the 70s their parents were never told where they went.

You assume that children don't get an education when they are home schooled. Of course they do. The problem for the government was that it wasn't a "colonial" education and without the myths taught in our schools they couldn't be conditioned like the rest of us have been. Without conditioning native people might resent being taken advantage of, or balk at being relocated to make way for diamond mines and oil exploration. The whole goal of the government was to subjugate native people, and when they didn't come willingly, they stole their children and in many cases beat them, raped them and even murdered them. You can't fathom 50,000 dead 5 to 13 year olds can you? There were probably more children buried in unmarked graves than all of the people in the nearest town to where you grew up. ...and you call natives ignorant....

As to the foster care, the genocide is still going on. These children are not taken out of their homes and put in relatives homes. They are taken off the reserve in many cases and placed with non-native families because the Child Care Workers don't believe that native people can take care of their own. They put them with nice church ladies that scrub the backs of their hands raw because they look dirty. They use all forms of corporal punishment because the children don't understand that they must obey absolutely -even when the foster father has his pants around his knees and is teaching the kids about "love". The child welfare system is no less corrupt and abusive than the residential school priests were. Native children don't NEED that kind of education and it is better that they remain ignorant and free than to be physically, emotionally and sexually abused to become "socialized".

The main problem in society is that the same kind of thinking that created residential schools with all its abuse and paternalistic attitudes is alive and well in Canada. One need only visit here for a couple of days and read the crap of the right wing to realize that.

If we truly want what is best for natives then we leave them alone and give them the resources that we would have otherwise wasted on bureaucracies, policies and useless programs. There are enough well-adjusted native people to figure out how to solve their own problems and in fact as far as I know they have been working on it in spite of government and do-gooder's interference. Hell we can't even solve our own societal problems. What gives us the right to decide what is best for them?

Edited March 28, 2008 by charter.rights

[charter.rights]

Hmm..."land in your mirror" ?

or...

Favour, not favor. There are more, but the point is made.

Something about glass houses.....

Carry on.

"Favour" is British. "Favor" is American. Since native people are neither American or Canadian, they get to choose which word they prefer.

[soowas]

"Favour" is British. "Favor" is American. Since native people are neither American or Canadian, they get to choose which word they prefer.

Typical of the response innit, when a thoughtful reponse cannot be put forth towards the post, the poster attacks the grammtacial fortitude or lack thereof, or the person temselves are attcked with no remorse.

How typical!

[Melanie_]

As to the foster care, the genocide is still going on. These children are not taken out of their homes and put in relatives homes. They are taken off the reserve in many cases and placed with non-native families because the Child Care Workers don't believe that native people can take care of their own. They put them with nice church ladies that scrub the backs of their hands raw because they look dirty. They use all forms of corporal punishment because the children don't understand that they must obey absolutely -even when the foster father has his pants around his knees and is teaching the kids about "love". The child welfare system is no less corrupt and abusive than the residential school priests were. Native children don't NEED that kind of education and it is better that they remain ignorant and free than to be physically, emotionally and sexually abused to become "socialized".

Today Manitoba recognized where the real priority has to be - the safety of the children. Safety comes before culture, safety comes before family, safety comes before community. Whenever possible, family, culture and community can be kept as intact as possible, but only if the safety of the child is reasonably certain.

Law will protect kids in care

The safety of children will take precedence over all other considerations -- including cultural and family ties -- for kids in care in Manitoba's child welfare system, through legislation expected this spring.

After investigations into the deaths of Gage Guimond and Tracia Owen suggested their safety wasn't always the No.1 consideration, Family Services Minister Gord Mackintosh plans to amend the Child and Family Services Act to send the message to everyone in the system that nothing trumps the safety of a child when determining where they should live.

~snip~

The amendment will send a strong message to all child welfare authorities that returning children to extended families or culturally appropriate settings is not acceptable if it also puts them at risk.

Tracia Owen, 14, hanged herself in 2005. She had been involved with the child welfare system her entire life and was returned repeatedly to her parents, even though from the time she was born there were warning signs the parents were unable to care for her.

Her inquest report was a scathing indictment of Manitoba's child welfare system.

Two-year-old Gage Guimond was killed in July 2007 after having been removed from a safe foster family and sent to live, along with his sister, first to his grandmother and then to a great-aunt, even though social workers were aware the grandmother had addictions issues and the great-aunt had a criminal record.

The great-aunt is now charged with manslaughter in the toddler's death.

Gage Guimond's death was a tragedy - here was a happy, well loved toddler who was removed from his stable and caring foster family and given to extended family who told the social workers they didn't want him. His death is a direct result of placing family and culture ahead of children's safety, and unfortunately that is what it took to wake this province up to the injustice we were doing to our children.

[charter.rights]

Today Manitoba recognized where the real priority has to be - the safety of the children. Safety comes before culture, safety comes before family, safety comes before community. Whenever possible, family, culture and community can be kept as intact as possible, but only if the safety of the child is reasonably certain.

Law will protect kids in care

Gage Guimond's death was a tragedy - here was a happy, well loved toddler who was removed from his stable and caring foster family and given to extended family who told the social workers they didn't want him. His death is a direct result of placing family and culture ahead of children's safety, and unfortunately that is what it took to wake this province up to the injustice we were doing to our children.

Safety is not an issue. However, when is not sending children to school, or being poor a safety issue? The majority of cases where children are removed are the result of poverty. It is still genocide regardless of any rationalizations you put on it.

[Melanie_]

Safety is not an issue. However, when is not sending children to school, or being poor a safety issue? The majority of cases where children are removed are the result of poverty. It is still genocide regardless of any rationalizations you put on it.

Safety is the most important issue. I'm not sure what you mean when you say it isn't important? If you read the article, you'll see that there was a lot more to the story of Gage Guimond and Tracia Owens than not sending a child to school or being poor. Children are removed from homes because the parents can't care for them adequately - this happens to all types of families, not just Native families. But Native families are overrepresented in the Child Welfare System, and that is likely to be the legacy of the residential schools. It will take a long time and a lot of healing for the dysfunction caused by residential schools to be overcome, but in the meantime we have to stop more kids from becoming victims.

Pathways to the Overrepresentation of Aboriginal Children in Care

From the website Centre of Excellence for Child Welfare

[charter.rights]

Safety is the most important issue. I'm not sure what you mean when you say it isn't important? If you read the article, you'll see that there was a lot more to the story of Gage Guimond and Tracia Owens than not sending a child to school or being poor. Children are removed from homes because the parents can't care for them adequately - this happens to all types of families, not just Native families. But Native families are overrepresented in the Child Welfare System, and that is likely to be the legacy of the residential schools. It will take a long time and a lot of healing for the dysfunction caused by residential schools to be overcome, but in the meantime we have to stop more kids from becoming victims.

Pathways to the Overrepresentation of Aboriginal Children in Care

From the website Centre of Excellence for Child Welfare

Native children are removed from their homes AND communities for minor reasons. Native children are best raised in their home communities and in homes of their friends and relatives. Saying that the children's safety is an issue is a ruse to interfere in their upbringing and instill the colonial way into their minds. There are some legitimate reasons for removing children from their parental homes. However, it is not the case in the majority of situations.

I have a friend whose grandson is in foster care. He was put there because his parents were arguing over his discipline (his siblings are still in the family home). While he was at the care home, he was arrested (yes by the police) for disobeying the group home rules. They said the same thing you are - that the rules are there for his safety. The judge (jes a provincial court judge) found him guilty and sentenced him to probation.

The "rule" broke was that he climbed a tree. He is 13 years old.

Safety issues are a ruse. Child care workers can successfully argue that parents aren't properly taking their kids if they let them play road hockey, or swing on swing sets unsupervised. IN the case of aboriginal children the root cause for taking children out of their homes are purported poverty issues - not legitimate safety issues or concern for the children. These are continuing acts of genocide and child care workers lie and fudge paperwork to make their cases.

I would suggest that the actual number of aboriginal children in foster care is much higher since many do not identify themselves as aboriginal to government agencies.

[Melanie_]

You have your head in the sand, if you think children are removed for minor reasons. The Child Welfare System leaves children in their homes whenever possible - there just aren't enough foster families to remove all the children who are in danger. Many children who can't be left in their homes end up in hotels with a revolving door of respite workers, whoever is on call that night, because there are no foster families to take them in.

Here are some names for you to look up, when you say children aren't in danger:

Gage Guimond

Tracia Owens

Fonessa Bruyere

Pheonix Sinclair

These are just the first few that come to me off the top of my head, and they are just the high profile deaths here in Manitoba. We only read about the deaths in the paper, but there are also so many kids who fly under the radar, living lives of abuse and neglect that never get reported. I'm not saying they are all Native, by the way - abuse and neglect occur in every type of family - but as the previous link showed there is a higher proportion of Native children in care. There are social reasons for this - it isn't because they are Native, it has more to do with the living conditions and family dysfunction that has resulted from government policy towards Canada's aboriginals. So you and I are on the same page there. But to deny the truth, that children are being victimized, is to perpetuate the problem rather than dealing with it.

[Rue]

What guilt? You are attemtping to install something in me unjustly. I have not profited though the persecution of others! Perhaps you have? My conscience is clear - and I am ready to judge and do not fear being judged ..before you jump on me you had better understand who you are trying to attempt to convert into an advesary..You are barking up the wrong tree and your typical conservative liberal reverse and vacilation of realtiy will not fly with me - I have seen it all and really don't what to play - besides..you subtly threaten - I don't like that - you don't threated because someone tells you the truth? Or do you?

Oleg not to worry. Its like an artist who sculpts something and some pedestrian has walked by and says-its shit. You now respond, of course its shit, that is what I work with, but he thinks you are being a smart ass. He won't slow down long enough to notice it is shit you work with.

I must confess Oleg, the only guys I knew who worked with shit, tended to me in the mental hospital where I was an orderly once. They used to eat it to. They had issues I guess. Lol. I could have used you to help me hose them down.

Oleg ee might get it when he gets a bit older and stops trying to jam his concepts into rights and wrongs, blacks and whites and is able to laugh the righteousness away. Too much anger right now.

I suspect in his case, it would actually frighten him to know why you don't have the luxury to feel guilt.

As well Oleg, I have no doubt your son will inherit your unique insights and the world will be a better place for it. I admire your ability to resist being angry when you see it for what it is worth and yes you do make good sculptures out of it. Its just you know they smell so the smell bothers people. I have no idea how to sugar coat them any more then you do.

[Slim MacSquinty]

Here is something that may interest you, if you're a squeemish guilt ridden lefty this may make you feel better, if your relatively normal it will at least give you pause for thought.

http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/recgen/txt/72-eng.html

Go to PDF document of federal transfer payments.

Some stats for those who are impatient:

Federal transfers payments made by Ministry:

Indian Affairs 5,334,520,927.

Health 2,133,705,475.

veterans 2,125,287,137.

Transportation 1,721,344,093.

Defence 195,718,956.

Environment 62,190,015.

Public Works 45,112,986.

I will keep my judgement to myself, draw your own conclusions.

[charter.rights]

Here is something that may interest you, if you're a squeemish guilt ridden lefty this may make you feel better, if your relatively normal it will at least give you pause for thought.

http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/recgen/txt/72-eng.html

Go to PDF document of federal transfer payments.

Some stats for those who are impatient:

Federal transfers payments made by Ministry:

Indian Affairs 5,334,520,927.

Health 2,133,705,475.

veterans 2,125,287,137.

Transportation 1,721,344,093.

Defence 195,718,956.

Environment 62,190,015.

Public Works 45,112,986.

I will keep my judgement to myself, draw your own conclusions.

So Six nations received roughly $300 per person in transfers for health and band administration last year. This makes you feel normal? Could you put grandma in the hospital for $300 and how long would she last?

[Slim MacSquinty]

So Six nations received roughly $300 per person in transfers for health and band administration last year. This makes you feel normal? Could you put grandma in the hospital for $300 and how long would she last?

Don't be jumping to conclusions, read a little more carefully, do you fund your own hospital?

Six nations (Oshweken) recieved funding from numerous other ministries, such as health 5,008,258, Public safety 1,919,296, candian heritage founations 300,850 and I'm sure there was more money in other places, that really is not the point though. We transferred more federal money to indian affairs than the healthcare for all citizens of Canada, natives included, what does it accomplish?

The sheer magnitude is astonishing, and the more you read, about all the handouts, the more frightening it becomes.

[charter.rights]

Don't be jumping to conclusions, read a little more carefully, do you fund your own hospital?

Six nations (Oshweken) recieved funding from numerous other ministries, such as health 5,008,258, Public safety 1,919,296, candian heritage founations 300,850 and I'm sure there was more money in other places, that really is not the point though. We transferred more federal money to indian affairs than the healthcare for all citizens of Canada, natives included, what does it accomplish?

The sheer magnitude is astonishing, and the more you read, about all the handouts, the more frightening it becomes.

The health transfer results in $228 per person for one whole year. Do you think that is a lot? On the other hand the transfers to towns and cities equates to about $13,000 per year per person in Ontario. I'm not sure you are making the point you think you are. So let's take all of Six Nations as an example. I added up all the transfers that Six Nations recieved from policing to education to health etc. and it comes to $36,267,804 and with a band membership of about 22000 people that comes to about $1648.54 per person to cover all their infrastructure, health care, policing and educational costs. That represents 1/8 of the funding that mainstream communities receive AND on top of that cities and town have property tax to take care of other incidentials. Six Nations can't tax property because as a reserve land ownership in prohibited under the Indian Act and how can you tax someone for something they don't own?

On the other side of the coin, Canada holds a misplaced trust fund that belongs to Six Nations that over the years has been misappropriated, stolen and embezzled. Not including any value of land under claim or any other claims, the appraised value of that fund (using INAC set interest rates from 1840 on) puts the trust worth over $80 billion. At 4.5% (compounded semi-annually) the interest alone equates to $3.163 billion per year that is not being paid AND is accruing interest at a phenomenal rate (compounded).

So do you still have a point or has it been lost in the facts?

[Who's Doing What?]

And how much native tax dollars went into these transfer payments that you say are so inadequate?

[charter.rights]

And how much native tax dollars went into these transfer payments that you say are so inadequate?

Last year Grand River Enterprises paid $120 million in excise taxes alone. Of course this doesn't include the approximately 12,000 Six Nations people (4,000 employable - the rest children) who are living in urban areas and paying all forms of tax. Still think they are getting a deal?

Edited April 1, 2008 by charter.rights