I am proud to be white!

[Peter F]

Sorry, what was that? "Haven't advanced as far as most native societies."? Who fills your naive mind with such nonsense? History clearly demonstrates who was and still is more advanced than the other. Moreover, the arrival of Europeans was exploited by the Indians in an attempt to increase wealth and power; unfortunately, the kinds of things that denoted status in Indian cultures happened to be things like beads and other shiney objects, which meant that Europeans could attain truly valuable items/materials for a mere pitance.

I didn't realize the Spanish were trading beads for Gold and Silver.

[kimmy]

see how much nonsense this is? Feeling pride for something we have no control over ourselves. It's so silly.

Culture (and religion or lack thereof) plays much more of a role in shaping a person's attitude, education, and intelligence than the level of one's melatonin.

I'm guessing you're white, Drea? (or, if you insist on saying that we're all one big happy brown family, you have less melanin in your skin than most of your brothers and sisters?)

Somebody who would say that skin color isn't a big deal is probably white. Because what I have heard from all sorts of "brown" people is that skin color IS a big deal and affects their lives on a daily basis. In their perception, at least.

However, I can't help but wonder at the accuracy of that perception.

In my own experience with "people of color", I have found that race seems to often be interpretted into situations that didn't actually have anything to do with race. ("I didn't bump into you because you're asian. I bumped into you because you're blocking the whole doorway." "I'm not honking at you because you're brown. I'm honking at you because you're driving like an idiot." "I'm not rejecting your proposal because you're black. I'm rejecting it because I'm already spoken for. And because you're an obnoxious jackass.")

-k

[kimmy]

Anyone can attend.

Anyone can attend.

Anyone can attend.

Many people love the idea of focusing on afro-centric topics and culture using modified teaching methods to reach kids that would otherwise be left out of the system. Maybe they'll even teach "gang-speak" (or whatever they call it) as a second language. Cool huh?

The fact that you've dropped the description of the idea as an "All Black School" and are now touting it as an alternative educational program for "kids that would be left behind" that "anyone can attend" speaks to the flimsiness of your earlier position. However, the vocal proponents of the idea certainly envision this as a program for black kids, and they'd certainly also scoff at the suggestion that race isn't a big deal.

"Ebonics" as a second language? Great idea. I wonder if that'll qualify them for government jobs designated "bilingual"?

-k

[charter.rights]

The fact that you've dropped the description of the idea as an "All Black School" and are now touting it as an alternative educational program for "kids that would be left behind" that "anyone can attend" speaks to the flimsiness of your earlier position. However, the vocal proponents of the idea certainly envision this as a program for black kids, and they'd certainly also scoff at the suggestion that race isn't a big deal.

"Ebonics" as a second language? Great idea. I wonder if that'll qualify them for government jobs designated "bilingual"?

-k

The kids from an Afro-centric background make up about 60% of that 28% drop-out rate. So really people of colour don't have the same opportunities through school that mainstream kids do. The move to Afro-centric schooling (which the media calls "All Black") is an attempt to reduce those numbers and provide more adoption of the school curriculum by teaching subjects from a perspective of how it affects them and their family history. There really is an over emphasis on British cultural dominance in the school curriculum. In history we were taught that the British won the American Revolution by beating the Americans back to Washington, and the War of 1812 that saw the Americans brought to their knees. Of course Americans have a slightly different version of this. But what of the Buffalo Soldiers and the people of colour (Natives, Blacks, Asians and others) that fought along side the British? I know from my own research how pivotal the Native participation was in both these and later wars in defending the British empire but none of it was taught to me in school.

I know an elementary teacher - a friend of the family who is now retired - who had a hard time trying teach a young kid about math. He came from a farm background and really had no interest in "learnin' no numbers". The boy couldn't see any purpose in math. So after struggling almost a half year with him see came in one day and started to put the math questions too him in terms of farm production. "If a hog brings $2.25 a pound at auction, then how much money does his dad get from a 250 pound boar?" The kid had the answer in a snap. So she put more questions using cost of grain versus production etc and the kid passed math with a B average - a huge success!

So the point is that kids learn more readily when they can relate to the subject. In most schools 72% of the kids "get it" reasonably well. However, 28% cannot relate and have no interest in British Colonial history. Instead by providing an Afro-centric school it may give 60% of those drop-out neighbourhood kids an opportunity to see learning in a different light and maybe, just maybe 40 or 50% of them will go on to graduate.

[jbg]

The kids from an Afro-centric background make up about 60% of that 28% drop-out rate. So really people of colour don't have the same opportunities through school that mainstream kids do. The move to Afro-centric schooling (which the media calls "All Black") is an attempt to reduce those numbers and provide more adoption of the school curriculum by teaching subjects from a perspective of how it affects them and their family history. There really is an over emphasis on British cultural dominance in the school curriculum. In history we were taught that the British won the American Revolution by beating the Americans back to Washington, and the War of 1812 that saw the Americans brought to their knees. Of course Americans have a slightly different version of this. But what of the Buffalo Soldiers and the people of colour (Natives, Blacks, Asians and others) that fought along side the British? I know from my own research how pivotal the Native participation was in both these and later wars in defending the British empire but none of it was taught to me in school.

Are you saying that dding "Buffalo Soldiers" to the War of 1812 curriculum is going to save a significant number of students from dropping out. What a steaming load!!!

[Rue]

Cybercoma, do you generally react to someone who says they are proud to be black?

Actually Jefferiah if you read Cyber's stuff he would if when saying they were proud to be black they said hateful things about anyone else. From what I see Cyber (and myself) hate everyone equally when they are being bigoted.

[Rue]

I'm not at all ashamed of being an old white guy. I had no control over the genes which spawned me so the idea of pride or shame seems kinda silly.

I AM proud of what I've done and what I can do!

Particularly the fact that I can make a bitchin' tube guitar amp to make ANY style of guitarist sound his best!

Racial pride to me seems just another form of tribalism, where you take your pride from the accomplishments of your tribe 'cuz you kinda lack any accomplishments of your own.

As usual you hit it smack dab on the head. That God for the old geezers on this board.

[Rue]

My Jewishness is something I keep inside. I would feel uncomfortable bragging about it or acting boastful about it. Its something that makes me feel I am imperfect and should have humility and have an obligation to try heal the world and strive to be positive. So I would not go around showing pride-hopefully just a humiluty about it. I am not comfortable with displays of pride. I often find people full of pride actually compensating for not feeling good about themselves.

I know pride is important to instill in young people who feel ashamed of themselves or people who have self-esteem issues or negative self-destructive behaviour and self-limiting behaviour but I think that kind of pride is not meant to get such people to feel arrogant, just good about themselves-you have to feel positive about yourself if you want to be healthy I think. But that kind of pride, I like to think of more as positive thinking not this screaming I am great stuff.

I know who I am. Its part of me. I must live up to its legacy but it does not mean I goa round thinking I am better then anyone else or feel the need to compete and say I am superior to them-but the exact opposite, it means I should resist arrogance and when I hear people screaming out their pride, just be quiet and smile. Its what we do in our actions, not what we scream out that counts.

[Argus]

I don't think we're all merely shades of brown, if that's what you're asking.

But I was pointing out a common misconception-- that AA programs are all based on race, making them totally unfair to whites.

In Canada they are based on race, and to some degree gender.

[Argus]

My wife is Metis and I'm proud of her heritage too.

Nothing in particular against the Metis but - what exactly have they done, as a people, to be proud of?

[Argus]

I'm not saying it's not OK to be proud to be white. I'm saying it's ridiculous because white people don't face the same kind of adversity that black or ethnic people do in this country.

Bullshit.

Skin pigmentation is not really much of a hindrance in this country.

[margrace]

Our neighbour is a really good man but for some reason he has this hate of black people. Where it comes from and what causes it is really hard to understand. He had a very serious operation in Toronto recently and when he was coming out of the anesthetic he saw a black nurse. He started yelling and ordering her out of the room.

How did this treatment affect this woman? Not too good I would think.

Oprah took a trip across American, somewhere in central America one of her camera men went into a hotel, he obviously was white, and I quote Oprah, he was asked "Are you travelling with that N#### Oprah" Evidently his immediate reaction was to say no. Oprah commented on it so it must have bothered her.

What makes people think this way, how are they raised different than me for instance?

[kengs333]

The kids from an Afro-centric background make up about 60% of that 28% drop-out rate. So really people of colour don't have the same opportunities through school that mainstream kids do. The move to Afro-centric schooling (which the media calls "All Black") is an attempt to reduce those numbers and provide more adoption of the school curriculum by teaching subjects from a perspective of how it affects them and their family history. There really is an over emphasis on British cultural dominance in the school curriculum. In history we were taught that the British won the American Revolution by beating the Americans back to Washington, and the War of 1812 that saw the Americans brought to their knees. Of course Americans have a slightly different version of this. But what of the Buffalo Soldiers and the people of colour (Natives, Blacks, Asians and others) that fought along side the British? I know from my own research how pivotal the Native participation was in both these and later wars in defending the British empire but none of it was taught to me in school.

I don't recall being taught that the British won the American Revolution, rather that the Loyalists came to Canada and settled this fine land and made it prosperous after the Americans prevailed. I also don't recall that I was ever tought that during the War of 1812 "brought [the Americans] to their knees," rather that the outcome was indecisive, essentially ending in a draw because neither side lost territory. On the other hand, the role of the Brant and the Iroquois during the Revolution, men like Tecumseh during the War of 1812 was hardly something that has been overlooked; their stories have been told--often in an overidealized/romanticized manner--from the very beginning. I wouldn't call their participation "pivotal" since the British did not previal; Indians, incidently, were used to raid isolated farms and settlements and eliminate the locals.

Incidently, "Asians and others" didn't "[fight] along side the British" unless some of the regiments picked up southeast Asians while they were stationed in India or thereabouts. The Buffalo Soldiers" were Post American Civil War (1861-1865) black United States army troopers who served on the American frontier during the Plains Wars, and were used to combat Indians that were not submitting to the American government. They did a pretty good job of it, too, and earned a fine reputation.

Edited January 28, 2008 by kengs333

[kengs333]

Being proud to be Christian means being proud to be Christian, whether you are in North America or Atlantis or Iran.

Some denominations emphasize the fact that "pride" is a sin. One really shouldn't "take pride" in being Christian because being a follower of Christ and abiding by God's Will is simply the way it should be. Pride is something that non-Christians attribute to worldly things, and there's no better example of this than the concept of "gay pride".

[kengs333]

I didn't realize the Spanish were trading beads for Gold and Silver.

Her arguments usually revolve around the Iroquois/Six Nations, and in her posts she takes of "most" Indian societies which suggests that she's referring to all of the groups of Indians that all the Europeans came into contact with.

[Argus]

MOST whites still haven't advanced as far as most natives societies..

Well, I suppose we could try to increase our child abuse, rape and spousal assault rates, but it might be expensive to try and increase our alcoholism and drug abuse rates to match those of native "societies".

[Argus]

The kids from an Afro-centric background make up about 60% of that 28% drop-out rate. So really people of colour don't have the same opportunities through school that mainstream kids do.

They have the same opportunity. They can study and attend classes. That's opportunity. What you're aiming at is equality of results, and that, unfortunately, due to problems within the Black community, isn't happening.

[kuzadd]

white anglo-saxon?

or the new white?

like Italians, they weren't considered 'white' at one time, but now they are, so which 'white' are we talking about.

If I am not mistaken the irish were barely considered white enough for the british whites at one time.

Now there are the Japanese, who are pretty much considered 'white' now also, but previously were not.

Ditto for Jewish people

So what "whites" are we speaking of that some are alleged to be proud of being

[M.Dancer]

Im sick of the double standards and am proud to be white.

I am proud of nothing I didn't accomplish on my own. But if you haven't accomplished anything....being born left handed, near sighted or white is a good as anything....

[charter.rights]

Sorry, what was that? "Haven't advanced as far as most native societies."? Who fills your naive mind with such nonsense? History clearly demonstrates who was and still is more advanced than the other. Moreover, the arrival of Europeans was exploited by the Indians in an attempt to increase wealth and power; unfortunately, the kinds of things that denoted status in Indian cultures happened to be things like beads and other shiney objects, which meant that Europeans could attain truly valuable items/materials for a mere pitance.

Unless you can provide a link proving your "History clearly demonstrates...." it is nothing but an ill-conceived opinion.

New Twist: Archaeologists have long thought that people in the Old World were planting, watering, weeding, and harvesting for a good 5,000 years before anyone in the New World did such things.

Not so.

[kengs333]

Unless you can provide a link proving your "History clearly demonstrates...." it is nothing but an ill-conceived opinion.

New Twist: Archaeologists have long thought that people in the Old World were planting, watering, weeding, and harvesting for a good 5,000 years before anyone in the New World did such things.

Not so.

Big deal. First you about being "advanced" in the present tense, and now you're supporting it with a theory that agriculture developments in the Old and New World were "nearly concurrent". Advanced means socially, politically, technologically--every aspect of civilization. And history clearly demonstrates that European civilization was more advanced at the time of first contact, which is why Europeans conquered the Indians and settled the continent. It's as simple as that.

[charter.rights]

Big deal. First you about being "advanced" in the present tense, and now you're supporting it with a theory that agriculture developments in the Old and New World were "nearly concurrent". Advanced means socially, politically, technologically--every aspect of civilization. And history clearly demonstrates that European civilization was more advanced at the time of first contact, which is why Europeans conquered the Indians and settled the continent. It's as simple as that.

And history clearly demonstrates that European civilization.....

Prove it by providing links. At the time the first Europeans arrived here many of them died from scurvy in the first winter. This was eventually cured by a relatively simple treatment.

If not for the Natives, Europeans never would have survived, being inferior to the original inhabitants.

Edited January 28, 2008 by charter.rights

[kengs333]

And history clearly demonstrates that European civilization.....

Proven it by providing links.

You need proof that Europeans came to the Americas, conquered and settled it?

[jefferiah]

Some denominations emphasize the fact that "pride" is a sin. One really shouldn't "take pride" in being Christian because being a follower of Christ and abiding by God's Will is simply the way it should be.

I agree. But nonetheless my statement stands. Being proud of being Christian in America is the same as being proud of being Christian in Iran---whether or not that is a good or bad thing. Pride is pride, no matter where it is. Salt is salt. Take Canadian salt to Timbuktu and its still salt.

Edited January 28, 2008 by jefferiah

[M.Dancer]

Pride goeth before destruction and a haugty spirit before a fall.

---ancient white culture proverb