Russell by-law spat sparks bilingual study

[Argus]

Trying the old `French-speakers are more likely to be able to speak english than Ènglish-speakers are able to speak french, so official binlingualims unfairly favour the first over the second`? But that mesure, Anglophones in Quebec are unfairly favored at the expense of Quebec French-speakers, since they are way more likely to be fluent in the other language even without leaving the province. Needless to say, I find the argument unconvincing.

Anglophones who live in Quebec are the most bilingual people in Canada, but they are a far smaller population than that of Francophones in Canada, and mostly they are centered around Montreal. Thus they aren't that likely to be applying for federal government jobs in Ottawa. Most of the French speakers in the federal government live in western Quebec, and thus are Francophones. Although significant numbers of have migrated to Ottawa in response to the continuing demand for French speakers both in the Federal government and in local governmental organizations such as the hospitals and city government.

Incidentally, the high bilingualism level of Quebec Anglophones cuts zero ice with the Quebec government, which hires virtually none of them.

And as requiring bilingualism as a condition of employment is illegal without a permit it doesn't necessarily help them find employment in Quebec either.

[Argus]

The Official Languages Act did no such thing. It stipulated that all federal department headquarters were to offer services in both official languages and the percentage of either language used in branch offices was to reflect how language was used by the local population.

You forgot the part added in later, which said all employees have the right to work and be supervised in the language of their choice.

The affect of this is simple. Say you have an office which very occasionally has a francophone calling in. You hire someone bilingual to man the phone, and that person is a Francophone. Well now his manager has to be bilingual. The IT guy who services his computer has to be bilingual. The staffing people have to be bilingual. The training clerk has to be bilingual. The payroll clerk has to be bilingual. And of course, most of those jobs will go to Francophones, which then requires a new round of hiring of bilingual people.

The amount of time and money spent is unbelievable. Billions of dollars wasted on a program which has no function other than to try to politically assuage Quebec separatists.

[Argus]

Many government jobs will train you in French if you don't speak it.

That's simply not true. A very, very small number of jobs might, but only if they can't find someone bilingual.

Very little in the way of language training is now offered by the government below the managerial level, and there is a long waiting list for that. I think they're something like 2 or 3 years behind.

[Leafless]

Correction. There qare many language spoken in Canada and the English language is the primary business language of business and communications of most canadians. Yet, another Canadian language, French, is the primary language and communications.

Yeah sure, maybe in Quebec that is.

The English language is the Lingua Franca of Canada and of the world.....get used to it.

BTW, nice way of avoiding the FACT, which you approve of, of past violation of the linguistic rights of Canadians.

What provincial rights are those?

Corrction (no 2) What Canadian language(s) are used for the services provided by provincial governments is the responsibility of each provincial Legislature, like in Ontario where the ELECTED Legislative Assembly rightfully decided that provincial services should be offered in English and French. Similarly, what Canadian language(s) are used for the services provided by the federal government is the responsibility of the Federal parliament. Time you brush up on the actual working of the Constitution.

It will be a long time if ever, I get used to Nazism and racist language policies.

Correction (no 3). The propagation of the English language in Canada is nation building to the extent that it does not infringe on the rights of Canadians to choose another Canadian language.

English never infringed on the rights of Canadians to chose another language. That is if you are stupid enough to chose another language other than the English language.

Only a bigoted ignorant mind would think that defending the rights of Canadian is divisive. But then, we are talking about you.

If you think troublesome segregated, fractionated linguistic cultural societies are the right of Canadians, then I think Canada is headed for major problems, if we are not already there to a large extent.

I wonder what is the worse in this statemnt of yours: its hypocrisy, or the sheer stupidity of said hypocrisy.

Most immigrants come over to Canada to work and contribute to the Canadian way of life unlike the French who have been nothing more than a cancer on society.

Both English and french are Canadian languages that are sufficiently spoken throughout this country to warrant official status,

And that is the official problem ....OFFICIAL STATUS dictated by mere politicians rather than decided by Canadian citizens themselves by referendum.

Why should other provincial governments refuse to imitate discriminatory polcies enacted by the Quebec government? Duh. Because they are discriminatory, that's it.

Because the federal government will not allow it. The federal government has been shackled by Trudeau's language policies since they were implemented and must uphold them ..for now that is.

But I predicate when the feds abolish costly transfer payments and the provinces will have to look after their own programs and policies, bilingualism will no longer exist and French will be contained only in Quebec.

And if that fails look at all the English kids in English speaking provinces in French immersion ....they will have the jump on anything coming out of unilingual Quebec. Think of all those federal jobs out of reach from unilingual Quebecers.

Correction (no 4). The difference between then and now is that federal legislation recognizes Canadians as equal. Only the cluessless (meaning you) sees that as racism.

And only the stupid meaning you would not recognize a language policy as corrupt and discriminatory because your minority French and think that is perfectly acceptable.

Correction (no. 6). You have CLAIMED that there is language discrimination by the federal government, but have yet to provide any proof of it before your ramblings and those of otherbigoted ignoramus.

A lot of this has already been covered in this thread and a reply would be quite lengthily. There are also other threads on the same subject.

Why don't you initiate a new topic on the subject.

As for your demonstration of language discrimination by the Quebec Government, it is mostly a tool to express your jealousy that similar m*nure does not exist in Ontario.

It is not that I am envious but am angered and disappointed, as to why the federal government would allow Quebec to flaunt their own linguistic rules while disallowing English speaking provinces the same right.

Correction (no 7) and big laugh I am not miffed by the fact that more Canadians speak English than French. Is anyone is miffed, it is YOU because this is 2011, French-speaking Canadians are not second class citizens in this country and you don't have laws that would virtually ban French.

You better see some one about your serious inferiority complex as it is apparent you cannot handle topics of this nature.

[CANADIEN]

Yeah sure, maybe in Quebec that is.

The English language is the Lingua Franca of Canada and of the world.....get used to it.

Correction (no 8 - of myself). I should have specified that French is the main language of business and communications of more than one Canadian in 5.

Correction (no. 9) Whether or not English is THE lingua franca of the world could be an interesting subject for a thread (with people who have a clue, that is), but is irrelevant here.

Quebec is, and will remain, a part of Canada, and French is the primary business and communications language of more than 1 Canadian in 5. Get used to it.

It will be a long time if ever, I get used to Nazism and racist language policies.

Indeed. I too would take a long time to get used to something (racist language policies) that does not exist.

English never infringed on the rights of Canadians to chose another language.

Correction (no. 10). Provincial governments in the past, and one today - namely, that of Quebec, have violated the rights of Canadians.

That is if you are stupid enough to chose another language other than the English language.

Thank you for demonstrating your bigotry and ignorance once again.

If you think troublesome segregated, fractionated linguistic cultural societies are the right of Canadians, then I think Canada is headed for major problems, if we are not already there to a large extent.

Well... as those with a clue know full well, I think, or more exactly I know, that choosing what Canadian language they use is the rights of Canadians.

Most immigrants come over to Canada to work and contribute to the Canadian way of life unlike the French who have been nothing more than a cancer on society.

First bigotry, now just plain hatred. I haven't thought even you could sank so low. The fact we are talking about French-speaking CANADIENS, not citizens from France, and that French-speaking Canadians are not immigrants to their own country are things you will never get a clue about. But the use of the word cancer is something that would have made Goebbels think "why didn't I think of that one". Not that I would consider your ideology to be Nazi... after all, like most people and unlike you, I understand what nazi means, which is why I won't misuse the word.

And that is the official problem ....OFFICIAL STATUS dictated by mere politicians rather than decided by Canadian citizens themselves by referendum.

Correction (no 11). Official language status was enacted following a vote by the federal Parliament, a legitime institution in our democracy. And no federal party promoting that it be scrapped has ever, or will ever, win a general election.

Because the federal government will not allow it. The federal government has been shackled by Trudeau's language policies since they were implemented and must uphold them ..for now that is.

Correction (no 12). If provincial governments outside Quebec fulfilled their dream of enacted their own version of the m*nure known as Quebec language laws, there is nothing the federal government could do about it. In fact, the Government of Manioba clearly violated the Constitution for more than 90 years by refusing to even enact its laws in English and French - and the federal government did not do a thing.

Fortunately enough, that kind of thing is unlikely to happen again. The provincial party that came the closest to be in a position to fulfill your dream, namely New Brunswick`s Confederation of Regions Party, could not manage to get more than an third of the English-speaking vote, and crumbled after one term.

But I predicate when the feds abolish costly transfer payments and the provinces will have to look after their own programs and policies, bilingualism will no longer exist and French will be contained only in Quebec.

Correction (no. 13). The provincial governments already look after their own programs, and the federal program looks after its programs. Also, most ELECTED provincial legislatures have voted laws providing for at least a certain level of service in French. I haven't checked the other provinces, but none of the main provincial parties in Ontario has a repeal of the French Language Services Act on its program.

And if that fails look at all the English kids in English speaking provinces in French immersion ....they will have the jump on anything coming out of unilingual Quebec. Think of all those federal jobs out of reach from unilingual Quebecers.

Correction (no. 14) and Kids coming out of French immersion can function in English.

And only the stupid meaning you would not recognize a language policy as corrupt and discriminatory because your minority French and think that is perfectly acceptable.

Correction (no. 15) By your definition, you must be pretty stupid because YOU promote a language policy (namely, an Ontario version of Quebec's language laws) that would be clearly discriminatory.

And try to build ENGLISH sentences, will you?

A lot of this has already been covered in this thread and a reply would be quite lengthily. There are also other threads on the same subject.

Why don't you initiate a new topic on the subject.

A lot has already been covered. Mostly by you. Don't blame other for the fact that you still have not proven your claims nor can you prove them.

There is no need to create yet another thread on this.

It is not that I am envious but am angered and disappointed, as to why the federal government would allow Quebec to flaunt their own linguistic rules while disallowing English speaking provinces the same right.

Feel free to try to demonstrate your claim with actual wording from the Constitution or federal law.

You better see some one about your serious inferiority complex as it is apparent you cannot handle topics of this nature.

You mean, I cannot sink to your level of cluelessness, ignorance and bigotry.

As for my so-called inferiority complex, you obviously (no surprise here) do not have a clue. As a French-speaking Canadian, I have no reason to feel inferior, or superior, to any other Canadian because of my Canadian language of choice.

Edited January 24, 2011 by CANADIEN

[g_bambino]

You forgot the part added in later, which said all employees have the right to work and be supervised in the language of their choice.

Can you cite that part, please?