Russell by-law spat sparks bilingual study

[Leafless]

BTW, I was just trying to abide by YOUR standard. Remember,? If ones talks about Quebec, the whole of the country's population should, according to YOU, be taken into acount.

That depends on whatever the claim may be. So spit it out CANADIEN and quote the full statement relating to what I said, that the whole of the country's population should be taken into account.

Or if it is not, then one is justified in thinking that you are either an hypocrite, or too clueless to remember what you said. Or, as I suspect, both.

That is a false assertion. You can suspect what you want.

You know very well that you are suppose to quote what was actually said in its entirety, which is something you rarely ever do in an effort to purposely confuse the issue.

[Leafless]

News to you. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion were a forgery; the Protocols of the Elders of the Chateau Frontenac is a figment of your imagination.

"Discrimination is not a figment of the imagination of English speaking people in Canada."

Excerpt taken from a presentation to the standing joint committee of the Senate and of the House of Commons on official languages, Ottawa, presented by the Alliance for the Preservation of English in Canada (APEC), March 28, 1990.

In 1978, the government created pools of jobs for "Francophones", especially "Francophones from colleges and universities", for areas where Francophone participation is low. Departments of government were issued instructions to increase the number and percentage of jobs labeled "French essential" thus it became no longer boat bilingual employees.

In November 1977, the Department of Supplies and Services was moved to Hull, Québec. In June of 1978, Jean-Pierre Goyer instructed his 4500 employees that they must communicate in French with the people of Hull and the merchants ... NOT IN ENGLISH.

Over 90% of the visitors to the House of Commons speak English. However, in 1982, the government, in hiring tour guides, required that all persons hired were to be fluent in both official languages. It was estimated this excluded over three quarters of the student population of Canada from the hiring process. In 1977, the federal government decided serving French-speaking or English-speaking people in the language of their choice wasn't enough ... French-speaking civil servants were encouraged to work in the French language. The Official Languages Act does not give any legislative support for this practice.

The most outrageous situation was the establishment of a "Francobank". This was a policy development Ministry of Energy, Mines and Resources. Staff members were paid to seek out Francophones for employment in the civil service. Staff were to be paid $10,000 per Francophone recruit, for expenses and seeking of such persons. A Francobank person is a Francophone who is hired as a government employee but for whom there is no position available at time of hiring. Such person was to be paid a salary of $25,000 until such time as position was established for him or her. The ministry was committed to hiring 30 such recruits per year, commencing in 1982 and running to 1988. The directive further stated that the 30 persons per year " are to be over and above the operational units normal resource establishment". A memorandum on the subject written on October 6, 1981, states in part, the PSC (Public Service Commission) has cleared EMR (Energy, Mines and Resources) to hire directly, only "exceptional Francophone" candidates. From now on, all French-speaking candidates should be considered exceptional and, therefore, subject to clear track hiring ... managers should feel free to hire Francophones without clearance. Clear Track Hiring means that they should be able to go through the hiring process without the normal screening and efficiency tests. This last incident was the action of Marcel Masse when he was the Minister of Energy, Mines and Resources. These are but a minute fraction of situations and facts that smack of discrimination against English speaking people in Canada.

I totally agree that anyone with a pea for a brains knows that. Anyone with an actual BRAIN for a brain knows otherwise.

Then you would agree with this statement:

"Language legislation is utterly insane and is designed to encourage bigotry. There is no precedence anywhere for unity being enhanced through a policy of two official languages". Peter Worthington, Financial Post, July 1988.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Leafless

[CANADIEN]

Being a majority in Quebec means nothing.

If Quebec is part of Canada all provinces must be included in calculating majorities/minorities relating to English speaking Canadians and Francophones.

Then it will be seen Francophones are the minority in Canada.

To treat English speaking Canadians in Quebec as a minority is absolute insanity and could possibly be seen by some as grounds for a legal uprising, protest or whatever.

Your words, remember?

[CANADIEN]

"Discrimination is not a figment of the imagination of English speaking people in Canada."

Certainly not all of them. Only the small number of reality-challenged people amongst them

Then you would agree with this statement:

"Language legislation is utterly insane and is designed to encourage bigotry. There is no precedence anywhere for unity being enhanced through a policy of two official languages". Peter Worthington, Financial Post, July 1988.

Why would I agree with such nonsense?

Edited November 13, 2010 by CANADIEN

[jbg]

Certainly not all of them. Only the small number of reality-challenged people amongst them

Why would I agree with such nonsense?

If you truly believe in bilingualism do you think that Quebec City's and Montreal's highway signs should be in French and English?

[CANADIEN]

If you truly believe in bilingualism do you think that Quebec City's and Montreal's highway signs should be in French and English?

As I said before, and you would know it if you took the time to actually read the thread, the place of English in Quebec's provincial legislation and services should be equal to that of French in Ontario`s provincial legislation and services. And guess what languages Provincial highway signs are in Ontario? Surely, if are interested in the facts, instead of occasionnally engaging in the childish "let's grill the Frenchie" little game, you'll know what the answer to that one is, don't you?

Now, to my question - what do YOU think about blingualism at the federal or provincial level in Canada? That's a good idea, or a bad one? A yes or a no will suffice.

[Leafless]

And guess what languages Provincial highway signs are in Ontario?

Provincial highways in Ontario that are located in French-designated areas require bilingual signs but are subject to municiple regulations.

Bilingual signs appear on provincial highways in Ontario, Canada, where there is a sizable French population in the area, although signs in Quebec are generally unilingual in French throughout the province. Commercial signs in Quebec can include text in languages other than French as long as French is "markedly predominant"[1] In the Greater Toronto Area, 400 series highways now have bilingual signs posted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilingual_sign

[Leafless]

Your words, remember?

No matter how you slice it, Quebec and the French language is a confirmed minority ANYWHERE in Canada.

[Leafless]

Certainly not all of them. Only the small number of reality-challenged people amongst them

That is a false claim as we never did have a national referendum on any of Trudeau's linguistic policies relating to our constitution. This is shameful.

Why would I agree with such nonsense?

It must be fact.

Posters have used the word bigot against other posters who were in disagreement relating to official languages and other imposed linguistic policies by Trudeau.

[guyser]

No matter how you slice it, Quebec and the French language is a confirmed minority ANYWHERE in Canada.

...ya well...'cept Quebec. And Northern Ontario (you know that place you've never been)and not to mention some towns in New Brunswick...but apart from that you might be right.

[jbg]

And guess what languages Provincial highway signs are in Ontario? Surely, if are interested in the facts, instead of occasionnally engaging in the childish "let's grill the Frenchie" little game, you'll know what the answer to that one is, don't you?

I believe that in Russell and Ottawa it's both languages. And I learn from the Board that the 400 series is in both languages. I am not playing "grill the Frenchie".

Now, to my question - what do YOU think about blingualism at the federal or provincial level in Canada? That's a good idea, or a bad one? A yes or a no will suffice.

I think that full bilingualism is a terrible idea. I think that in areas of the country where French predominates services should be in both languages. I think that Parliament should be conducted in English, with abundant translators available. I think that Courts should be in English, French, or bilingual depending on where they are.

[CANADIEN]

No matter how you slice it, Quebec and the French language is a confirmed minority ANYWHERE in Canada.

Leafless' maths... Put 1 Anglophone in a room with 500 Francophones, and automatically there are more Anglophones than Francophones.

[CANADIEN]

That is a false claim as we never did have a national referendum on any of Trudeau's linguistic policies relating to our constitution. This is shameful.

No more false than this quote of yours:

"Discrimination is not a figment of the imagination of English speaking people in Canada."

Unless of course you have the referendum results that prove otherwise

Posters have used the word bigot against other posters who were in disagreement relating to official languages and other imposed linguistic policies by Trudeau.

Forgetting about your own use of the words Nazi, fascist, gay, or the personal insults that come regularly from you against people favour equal language rights for Canadians?

That being said, responsibilty for any "language problem" in this great country of ours rests primarily with YOU and the likes of you (such as those people who oppose the rights of English-speakers in Quebec).

[CANADIEN]

I am not playing "grill the Frenchie".

except that the only one in this thread that is asked to show is "bilingual credentials" is the one Frenchie. Interesting.

I think that full bilingualism is a terrible idea. I think that in areas of the country where French predominates services should be in both languages. I think that Parliament should be conducted in English, with abundant translators available. I think that Courts should be in English, French, or bilingual depending on where they are.

Of course it is a bad idea, except in Quebec of course. Because it is about the rights of English-speaking Canadians first and foremost. As for the French-speaking Canadians, I guess having second-class language rights is good enough...

Interesting, btw, that what you promote, French-language services where French is predominent (which would be nowhere, according to Leafless, but I digress) happens to be exactly the standard for the level of municipal and provincial services provided in English in Quebec. Looks like Quebec's language legislation is bad, unless the words French and English are switched.

[jbg]

Of course it is a bad idea, except in Quebec of course. Because it is about the rights of English-speaking Canadians first and foremost. As for the French-speaking Canadians, I guess having second-class language rights is good enough...

The difference is that Montreal has historically been a fully bilingual city as has Gatineau. The rights of the English-speaking residents in those cities and environs is being trammeled.

With the exception of certain enclaves, such as St. Boniface in Winnipeg and limited areas of northern Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta, and parts of New Brunswick there is little natural use of French. Those areas should rightly be and continue to be bilingual. My problem is that if all government employees have to be bilingual that, as a practical matter, gives discrepant opportunities to the French population and fewer to the English population in government employment.

As for evolving them into French-only bastions that at risks at least Montreal's standing as an international city of the kind that London and New York are. In other words Montreal's need for "English" derives at least in part from aspects other than their location in Canada.

[Leafless]

Leafless' maths... Put 1 Anglophone in a room with 500 Francophones, and automatically there are more Anglophones than Francophones.

To bad you have never heard of 'Francophone minority communities' with some being larger than the other.

The reality is English speaking Canadians are the majority anywhere in Canada period.

You are a regular Dr.Francostein, trying to manufacture majorities out of minorities.

[g_bambino]

The reality is English speaking Canadians are the majority anywhere in Canada period.

Except Quebec, and parts of New Brunswick, and parts of northern Ontario, and parts of Saskatchewan.

[Leafless]

Forgetting about your own use of the words Nazi, fascist, gay, or the personal insults that come regularly from you against people favour equal language rights for Canadians?

Firstly what you mean by "equal language rights for Canadians" in reality applies ONLY to Francophones....so say it rather than imply equal language rights are applicable to ALL Canadians when in fact all other Canadians be damned...right.

Be honest and admit that what you favour is language rights backed by corrupt, oppressive language policies that make English speaking Canadians subservient linguistic slaves to minority Francophones.

That being said, responsibilty for any "language problem" in this great country of ours rests primarily with YOU and the likes of you (such as those people who oppose the rights of English-speakers in Quebec).

You mean Canada was a great country before the arrival of Trudeau coupled with Quebec Nazism.

[Leafless]

Except Quebec, and parts of New Brunswick, and parts of northern Ontario, and parts of Saskatchewan.

They are still French minority communities.

[Shwa]

Except Quebec, and parts of New Brunswick, and parts of northern Ontario, and parts of Saskatchewan.

And some neighbourhoods in Toronto and Vancouver too.

[CANADIEN]

Firstly what you mean by "equal language rights for Canadians" in reality applies ONLY to Francophones (....)

(...) and Anglophones, and all Canadians. No need to thank me for correcting it for you.

Be honest and admit that what you favour is language rights backed by corrupt, oppressive language policies that make English speaking Canadians subservient linguistic slaves to minority Francophones.

Admitting that would be as honest as stating I am a Klingon.

You mean Canada was a great country before the arrival of Trudeau coupled with Quebec Nazism.

Nope. I mean Canada IS a great country.

Edited November 19, 2010 by CANADIEN

[guyser]

They are still French minority communities.

Yeah, its a minority that most of them speak French in those places.

For someone who is worried about English, you really do suck at (1) understanding it and (2)writing it.

[CANADIEN]

To bad you have never heard of 'Francophone minority communities' with some being larger than the other.

I have heard about them. what would be too bad if it wasn't so hilarious is that you have never heard of English-speaking minorities - which anybody with a CLUE knows exist - and that you have no graps of basic mathematical concepts.

The reality is English speaking Canadians are the majority anywhere in Canada period.

You delusion is not the reality. Unless...

(warning: the following is aimed at making fun of you, and as usual you will not get that)

... Francophones are a minority anywhere in canada. which must mean that, even I am single, I am a minority in my own house. Great - now if only I could find the two Anglophone roomates I didn't know I had snd start charging them rent. On the other end, if they have the looks of Shania Twain and the intellect of Condi Rice...

Edited November 19, 2010 by CANADIEN

[g_bambino]

They are still French minority communities.

No, they are majority French-speaking communities; that's why I mentioned them.

[Leafless]

I have heard about them. what would be too bad if it wasn't so hilarious is that you have never heard of English-speaking minorities - which anybody with a CLUE knows exist - and that you have no graps of basic mathematical concepts.

My basic mathematical concepts tell me that English speaking Canadians are the large majority in Canada.

According to the 2006 census, English and French are the preferred language ("home language", or language spoken most often in the home) of 67.1% and 21.5% of Canadians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Canada

If you wish to continue using the word 'majority' as applicable to groups of Francophones in areas where they outnumber English speaking Canadians, you can at least use the proper terminology and use 'sub-majority'in reference to French speaking majorities.