Russell by-law spat sparks bilingual study

[Leafless]

Being called a bigot by someone who (doesn't like that the Governor-General was born in Haiti and claims that true Canadians only raise their children in English.

I don't care where the GG was born, just as long as her political interest lie in the interest of Canadians and not the interest of a potentially troubling foreign country supporting Quebec Canadien-francais separatist fantasies.

But it is a fact, majority Canadians raise their children English and communicate themselves via the English language.

You seem to have a problem separating the political aspirations of majority Canadians vs Quebec Canadien-francais.

[CANADIEN]

I don't care where the GG was born, just as long as her political interest lie in the interest of Canadians and not the interest of a potentially troubling foreign country supporting Quebec Canadien-francais separatist fantasies.

But it is a fact, majority Canadians raise their children English and communicate themselves via the English language.

You seem to have a problem separating the political aspirations of majority Canadians vs Quebec Canadien-francais.

Nice try. The fact that you start almost all your comments about the Governor General by rambling about her being an immigrant from Haiti is a clear enough indication that it bothers you. That, your non-sense about how some Canadians are truer than others, and the way you keep reading facts about the GG's recent to France through the lense of your prejudice and ignorance instead of reality prove of much of a joke you are.

In case you did not figure it out yet, I know a majority of Canadians choose to raise their kids and use English, a Canadian language. And that it is their right as Canadians. And there is one thing you are too racist (to use your own word) to get - there are other CANADIANS who chose to raise their kids and French, ANOTHER Canadian language, as is their right as CANADIANS.

You don't like it, keep whining while I live according to my rights as a Canadian.

And no worry, I know the political aspirations of a majority of Canadians are NOT motivated by your brand of racism.

Edited May 13, 2008 by CANADIEN

[Leafless]

Nice try. The fact that you start almost all your comments about the Governor General by rambling about her being an immigrant from Haiti is a clear enough indication that it bothers you.

True.

Normally someone being an immigrant from Haiti does not bother me.

But in the position of GG does in fact rather disturbs me.

How a women from a dysfunctional country such as Haiti carry out her duties in a politically dysfunctional country such as Canada, without showing or demonstrating a prejudice or political leaning is near impossible. And she has demonstrated this prejudice by clearly ignoring loyalties normally associated with a country.

The political party that chose her also misjudged her appointment by discounting her personal associations.

That, your non-sense about how some Canadians are truer than others,

Canadians from provinces that do not racially discriminate and continually threaten separation are more loyal to their country.

and the way you keep reading facts about the GG's recent to France through the lense of your prejudice and ignorance instead of reality prove of much of a joke you are.

There is a vast political difference of opinion, namely the real reason to celebrate the anniversary of Quebec city. Why should Canadians be forced to read between the mumble jumble of political opinion and who's interest does it favour Canada's or Quebec's. Make up your mind, are you with Canada or are you with Quebec?

In case you did not figure it out yet, I know a majority of Canadians choose to raise their kids and use English, a Canadian language. And that it is their right as Canadians. And there is one thing you are too racist (to use your own word) to get - there are other CANADIANS who chose to raise their kids and French, ANOTHER Canadian language, as is their right as CANADIANS.

The least you can do is use the full quote.

This was not a racist comment but one to establish the fact to raise your children in the English language, you do not agree with Quebec political ideologies. This good for Canada, NON?

I also know immigrant Canadians that teach their children the foreign language of the country they immigrated from.

You don't like it, keep whining while I live according to my rights as a Canadian.

You can live the life you choose to live, but again I think you forgot what we are debating which is not your democratic right. Outside of Quebec language rights are not dictated. Canada is not a communist country.

And no worry, I know the political aspirations of a majority of Canadians are NOT motivated by your brand of racism.

Prove that I harbour racist sentiments or retract your allegation.

Note: Labelling someone racist is ALSO against forum rules.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Leafless

[CANADIEN]

If you were truly Canadian, you would put no cultural emphasis on the minority French language and simply raise your children and speak the majority 'de-facto' language, English.

Hence, there would be no argument from you in this thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Canadian

Here's the proof that to you I am not a true Canadian, Leafless... The proof that apart from the methods there is no difference between you and someone who believe that pile of m*anure called Quebec's language laws is a good thing. Any word YOU use to describe them is therefore appropriate to describe you. Including the r word.

[CANADIEN]

True.

Normally someone being an immigrant from Haiti does not bother me.

But in the position of GG does in fact rather disturbs me.

How a women from a dysfunctional country such as Haiti carry out her duties in a politically dysfunctional country such as Canada, without showing or demonstrating a prejudice or political leaning is near impossible. And she has demonstrated this prejudice by clearly ignoring loyalties normally associated with a country.

The political party that chose her also misjudged her appointment by discounting her personal associations.

Thank you for proving my point.

Canadians from provinces that do not racially discriminate and continually threaten separation are more loyal to their country.

A bit different from your earlier statement that to be truly Canadian I would need to raise my children (if I had any) in English, isn't it? But since you want to try that one...

I am from Ontario (of course, I do not mean that Ontarians are more Canadian) and, unlike you or those who believe in that pile of m*nure called the Quebec language laws, I don't claim that people need to use any particular language to be truly this or that. Would that make me more loyal than you? :lol:

There is a vast political difference of opinion, namely the real reason to celebrate the anniversary of Quebec city.

And there is you, whose claim about the GG's position is not based on anything she said or did, but on your prejudice and ignorance.

Why should Canadians be forced to read between the mumble jumble of political opinion and who's interest does it favour Canada's or Quebec's. Make up your mind, are you with Canada or are you with Quebec?

I am a Canadian, and my Canada includes Quebec, the good and the bad. It includes all Canadians, the good and the bad.

The least you can do is use the full quote.

The least you could do is to make up your mind and settle on one spin for your claim that to be truly Canadian I should use English and not French.

This was not a racist comment but one to establish the fact to raise your children in the English language, you do not agree with Quebec political ideologies. This good for Canada, NON?

As you can see from my postings, my choice of the French language does not prvvent me from having a low opinion of Quebec's language laws. And as I can see from your postings, choosing English is not an antidote against prejudice.

I also know immigrant Canadians that teach their children the foreign language of the country they immigrated from.

They are not raising their children in English? Does that mean that they are not truly Canadians, or that they support Quebec's language policy?

You can live the life you choose to live, but again I think you forgot what we are debating which is not your democratic right. Outside of Quebec language rights are not dictated. Canada is not a communist country.

You forget that YOU expended the topic the moment YOU started whining about where the GG comes from, and the moment YOU questioned how truly Canadian I am because of the Canadian language I choose. You cannot resist the opportunity to demonstrate your prejudice, don't blame me for it.

Edited May 13, 2008 by CANADIEN

[Leafless]

Here's the proof that to you I am not a true Canadian, Leafless... The proof that apart from the methods there is no difference between you and someone who believe that pile of m*anure called Quebec's language laws is a good thing. Any word YOU use to describe them is therefore appropriate to describe you. Including the r word.

Another cheap personal attack by you, who cannot differentiate the racial discriminating policies of the government of Quebec vs. a personal racist allegation.

It is obvious you AGREE with the racial discriminating Quebec policies and in turn level a personal charge of racism against me to defend Quebec's racist language policies.

[Leafless]

Thank you for proving my point.

Proving what point.

That the women is incompetent as a representative of the Queen?

A bit different from your earlier statement that to be truly Canadian I would need to raise my children (if I had any) in English, isn't it? But since you want to try that one...

The two are totally different comparisons, one being a personal loyal Canadian, and the other being a provincially loyal Canadian in comparison to the nationalistic aspirations of Quebecers.

In the future quote what was actually said.

I am from Ontario (of course, I do not mean that Ontarians are more Canadian) and, unlike you or those who believe in that pile of m*nure called the Quebec language laws, I don't claim that people need to use any particular language to be truly this or that. Would that make me more loyal than you?

Language laws in Quebec are not a pile of horse manure. They are real and legal, in Quebec that is.

If you are French living in Ontario, no one really knows the level of your Quebec nationalistic ideological support.

Therefore, if I am English living in Ontario I would be more of loyal Canadian than you as I am not bothered by nationalistic Quebec cultural issues influencing my loyalty to Canada as a country. And simply being francophone outside of Quebec you are nevertheless used statiscally to bolster Canada's French population, that includes Quebec.

And there is you, whose claim about the GG's position is not based on anything she said or did, but on your prejudice and ignorance.

The GG is incompetent in not recognizing the fact the anniversary of Quebec city is not in the interest of Canadians. Canada was not even a country when Quebec was founded and the Bloc made ity clear, they don't want a representative of the Queen invoved in these celebrations.

The GG patronizing to France is posing another conflict of interest situation.

Let the GG show and demonstrate her loyalties to Canada by remaining impartial to situations that potentially create a conflict of interest and show disloyalty to the country that gave us our constitution, Britain. She is the Queen's representative.

I am a Canadian, and my Canada includes Quebec, the good and the bad. It includes all Canadians, the good and the bad.

The good and the bad is totally inappropriate in describing aspirations that include traitorism.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Leafless

[guyser]

Language laws in Quebec are not a pile of horse manure. They are real and legal, in Quebec that is.

Ya just dont get it do you?

Grab a dictionary and look up the word "euphemism" . (yu-fe-mi-zem)

You are welcome.

[Argus]

Bizarre, isn't Argus, that there was nothing wrong when 90% of Federal civil service managers in the Ottawa area where English-speaking (and of course unilingual), even though that percentage is higher than the percentage of Canadians whose first language is English?

Given that the jobs were in Ottawa, which was 90% English, no, it wasn't bizarre.

But now that there is a LEGITIMATE requirement that managerial positions and some other positions be filled by bilingual people,

Legitimate? How is it legitimate? It is certainly legitimate to say that people on service desks who deal with the public be bilingual - or that there be a component of that group who can speak French, but most of the bilingual jobs in the federal government are not legitimate in my opinion as they have nothing whatsoever to do with serving the public.

and that more bilingual people have French than English as their first language, suddenly percentages become a big issue. I smell double standard.

When the population is 80% English - not just in Canada but in Ottawa - and yet the senior management of the government is 80% French then yes, that's a problem. Clearly not to you, of course, but I wouldn't expect it to be. It's a problem in more ways then one, of course. By insisting on fluency the government is basically turning away 95% of potential managers - and given bilingualism is not actually part of the skills needed to do the job, they're almost certainly turning away almost all of the most talented people.

Which, given what I've seen of the quality of management in the public service, surprises me not at all.

[Argus]

Argus. For me to have any kind of reaction to something logical you say, you would first have to say something logical.

My opinion on the Toronto taxicab by-law is that the city has a legitimate right to regulate business for the common good. That the taxicab industry is licensed has nothing to do with it.

Interesting, by the way, that for you a business owner has absolute freedom to use what ever language he wants, unless he has a municipal license... pr should I say unless he is told to speak WHITE?

The consistency of your principle truly amazes me

Again, it's the common sense which amazes you, because you are so unfamilar with it. If someone wants to run an Indian taxi company, and hire only Indians who speak no English - I'm fine with that! Just so long as they identify themselves clearly. I have no problem calling another taxi company, or passing by one of their INDIA cabs in a cab line and taking one from someone else who speaks English. However, that is not the case, and won't be. You get into whichever cab is first in line and then somehow try to make yourself understood.

[CANADIEN]

Another cheap personal attack by you, who cannot differentiate the racial discriminating policies of the government of Quebec vs. a personal racist allegation.

It is obvious you AGREE with the racial discriminating Quebec policies and in turn level a personal charge of racism against me to defend Quebec's racist language policies.

What can I say? I am unable to see differences that do not exist.

But at least, you got me on one thing. I do indeed agree with Quebec's language laws. So much in fact that I refer to it as a pile of m*nure. Imagine the level of foul language I would use if I actually disagreed with it

Edited May 13, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

If you were truly Canadian, you would put no cultural emphasis on the minority French language and simply raise your children and speak the majority 'de-facto' language, English.

Hence, there would be no argument from you in this thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Canadian

Here's a quote from you, Leafless. Word for word. And you think you can foul people about how much of a francophobe you are?

[CANADIEN]

Let's admit it. The Governor-General is incompetent. Think about it. She doesn't have francophobic leanings. She manages in one visit to get a President of France to express opinions favourable to Canadian unity, for the first time in over 40 years. And she gets to Bloc all mad and fuming and whining.

But let's not forget the real reasons why she is incompetent. First, she's from Haiti. Second, she is not a loyal Canadian - how could she, when (at least in Leeafless' world) one can not be a Francophone and a loyal Canadian.

Who needs comedy when we get opinions like that?

Edited May 13, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

Proving what point.

If you are French living in Ontario, no one really knows the level of your Quebec nationalistic ideological support.

Therefore, if I am English living in Ontario I would be more of loyal Canadian than you as I am not bothered by nationalistic Quebec cultural issues influencing my loyalty to Canada as a country. And simply being francophone outside of Quebec you are nevertheless used statiscally to bolster Canada's French population, that includes Quebec.

There is only one word to describe anyone who makes ethnic origin or first language the measure's of a person's loyalty. The same word prperly used to describe someone who would use skin color or creed in the same disgusting fashion. You know the one, Leafless.

[CANADIEN]

The GG is incompetent in not recognizing the fact the anniversary of Quebec city is not in the interest of Canadians. Canada was not even a country when Quebec was founded and the Bloc made ity clear, they don't want a representative of the Queen invoved in these celebrations.

Stephen Harper is incompetent. Most Canadians are incompetent (at least each and everyone of the ENGLISH-speaking Canadians I know who have mentioned anything about it). Good thing we have the Bloc and Leafless to defend the interests of Canada against those who believe Quebec is part of Canada.

[CANADIEN]

Given that the jobs were in Ottawa, which was 90% English, no, it wasn't bizarre.

Legitimate? How is it legitimate? It is certainly legitimate to say that people on service desks who deal with the public be bilingual - or that there be a component of that group who can speak French, but most of the bilingual jobs in the federal government are not legitimate in my opinion as they have nothing whatsoever to do with serving the public.

When the population is 80% English - not just in Canada but in Ottawa - and yet the senior management of the government is 80% French then yes, that's a problem. Clearly not to you, of course, but I wouldn't expect it to be. It's a problem in more ways then one, of course. By insisting on fluency the government is basically turning away 95% of potential managers - and given bilingualism is not actually part of the skills needed to do the job, they're almost certainly turning away almost all of the most talented people.

Which, given what I've seen of the quality of management in the public service, surprises me not at all.

Thanks for confirming that equal rights for all Canadians is not something legitimate in your eyes, Argus. BTW, I would be convinced by the "but of course there can be bilingual services at the counter", if it wasn't for your"they speak english anyway" and "they don't belong here" philosophy.

At least I am happy to know that with your "language skills" do not matter stance, you would have no problem with senior management in the federal government being occupied by unilingual Francophones. You know of course I don't think it should be the case.

Edited May 14, 2008 by CANADIEN

[Argus]

You know of course I don't think .

Quite obvious from your posts.

[Leafless]

What can I say? I am unable to see differences that do not exist.

But at least, you got me on one thing. I do indeed agree with Quebec's language laws. So much in fact that I refer to it as a pile of m*nure. Imagine the level of foul language I would use if I actually disagreed with it

Then what possible initiative would compel you to use French an obsolete and useless language in a majority English province and a majority English speaking Canada and North America excluding Mexico which has no linguistic influence in Canada?

[Leafless]

What can I say? I am unable to see differences that do not exist.

Oh, okay, according to you 'officially unilingual French Quebec' does not discriminate. Quebec's French Charter does not exist and Quebec does not discriminate against minorites.

You must be blind as well as dumb.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Leafless

[Leafless]

Here's a quote from you, Leafless. Word for word. And you think you can foul people about how much of a francophobe you are?

This has nothing to do being a francophobe, this is an opinion or friendly advice.

You can float down a river on a raft singing your favourite french songs, I could not care less.

Besides you are dissecting part of a response that has nothing to with what you are claiming it to be.

[Leafless]

But let's not forget the real reasons why she is incompetent. First, she's from Haiti. Second, she is not a loyal Canadian - how could she, when (at least in Leeafless' world) one can not be a Francophone and a loyal Canadian.

Who needs comedy when we get opinions like that?

Who needs comedy when we got YOU.

[Leafless]

There is only one word to describe anyone who makes ethnic origin or first language the measure's of a person's loyalty.

Oh, you must mean CULTURAL incompatibility.

Yes, this is VERY volatile and another reason why Canada should work very hard and develop single cultural leanings, that are common to the majority culture which would ensure a single Canadian identity.

The same word prperly used to describe someone who would use skin color or creed in the same disgusting fashion. You know the one, Leafless.

Man, you sure are heavy on that 'R' word.

It seems to dominate your life.

[oreodontist]

I'm glad I live in Alberta where nobody gives a crap about the language on signs, the tongue of Federal civil servants, etc. After spending a few years is Quebec going to university, I overdosed on language issues and quite frankly I don't give a horse's ass what language is on a sign or what language is sung at a hockey game. As a French Canadian, I've never met anyone who didn't know what 'Exit' meant over a door at the Calgary Airport and therefore needed an acompanying 'Sortie'.

The more languages and diversity the better. The world is drifting towards a Walmartish populist culture with all the idiversity of a blank sheet of paper. Last week our Superstores started puting up store hours and some signs in Chinese. Doesn't bug me that grandma Chan can now tell a turnip from a rutabaga...it won't stop her grandson from doing fine in our culture. Both my MLA and city counsilor are 2nd generation orientals who are as Canadian as anyone else.

The focus on language, national borders and so on will diminish as new generations grow up with the worldwide web. Languages and their use will evolve with more interactive technologies.

Edited May 14, 2008 by oreodontist

[CANADIEN]

Oh, you must mean CULTURAL incompatibility.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your hatred is not an English or Canadian cultural trait... just a demonstration of your personal failure,

Yes, this is VERY volatile and another reason why Canada should work very hard and develop single cultural leanings, that are common to the majority culture which would ensure a single Canadian identity.

You mean... like what those racists in Quebec are trying to do?

Man, you sure are heavy on that 'R' word.

It seems to dominate your life.

No, it doesn't. But once in a while, when I have nothing better to do, I come to a site like, this and come across someone like you. That's when I remember there are little men full of hatred (like you) in this world. But don't worry... summer is coming soon and I will be outdoors, having forgotten about you.

Edited May 15, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

Who needs comedy when we got YOU.

I'll take that as a compliment of my uncanny capicity to mock non-sense.