Ottawa school threatened after Christmas song cuts

kengs333 · December 27, 2007

And just what's wrong with Festivus? If it's good enough for Mr. Costanza, who are you to knock it?

The thing is, that "comedy" about "Festivus" is a subtle anti-Christian attack. The normalization of certain ideologies in recent decades has often come in part through television sitcoms--not that's always bad. Watching M*A*S*H with its strong anti-war message as a kid had a significant influence on me. But on the other hand, it has contributed to a breakdown of North American society; has paved the way for the anti-male, anti-Christian, pro-gay, moral relativist and hedonistic society that we now have. You just have to look at who has much of the power in the entertainment industry--it's certainly not decent, moral Christians. In the end, Hollywood is rotten to the core, yet most people blindly accept the propaganda it spews out. They think that because it isn't controlled by the state and is the product of people who wear swastika armbands that there is nothing to be concerned about.

Rue · December 27, 2007

Yeah, let's go back to the good old days when the Indians celebrated their "holidays" with mass human sacrifices. Nothing says tolerance like slicing open a captive's chest and yanking out their heart while they're still alive...

You made in my opinion an ignorant racist comment. Provide the reference for the above practice and prove it or issue an apology.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Rue

AngusThermopyle · December 27, 2007

In my opinion, an anti-Christian and a secular agenda are essentially the same thing.

Let me see if I understand what you are saying here. It appears to me that you believe those who don't believe in god, or are of another religion are anti-christian? Thats interesting, I believe there should be separation of church and state, I don't believe in a higher being who directs every moment of our lives. So I guess in your view I'm anti-christian? Thats interesting, I never knew that about myself, thanks for making such a life changing observation about me.

It looks to me like you believe that everyone should be christian and christians should run everything. Sorry man, just cant agree with you on that. I don't believe dictators should run anyones life, don't care if they're christian, hindu or worshipers of the sacred marshmallow.

I hate to say this but I've found christians to be among the most intolerant of any out there. Sure they dont go to the extremes some religious believers do, but they still condemn those who dont adhere to or follow what they believe. The whole letters incident serves only to illustrate this.

In fact where I live in Southern Alberta its very christian. My boss wont let me work Sundays because as he said 'People would talk and I'd be looked down upon". Hmmm, about as tolerant an attitude as any I've ever experienced before. Nice example of the shining beacon that is christian tolerance.

Carinthia · December 28, 2007

IMO, Muslim and Islam is much more offensive to ones societal standards and beliefs and is a constant reminder of horrific acts of violence against innocent citizens around the world.

There are many, many Muslim and Islamic people around the world who do not condone violence. What a mistaken and sweeping generality. Well, at least we know that brain washing and propaganda are working well and are doing what it is designed to do by those who push this crap.

Edited December 28, 2007 by Carinthia

Moxie · December 28, 2007

Maybe it is time to do away with Christmas as an official holiday? I mean it is nothing but an excuse to feed the spending compulsion we have been conditioned into by big corporate media. Certainly, there isn't anything wrong with having holidays around this time but it might make more sense if we did it as a secular holiday. For many - perhaps the majority of people - Christmas isn't a true religious holiday, and Canada isn't Christian. So it makes no sense to continue to play a mythical game complete with mythical characters born in paganism and in pre-Biblical times. Nor does it make sense to continue the frenzied consumption of cheap products stuffed in disposable papers and boxes to feign an affection that is really filled with resentment, disappointment, disillusions, unreasonable expectation et al. Rather it might be a more enjoyable holiday even for Christians, if it was nothing more than a time off at mid-winter and people were left to observe their own personal beliefs.
I wonder how Christian parents would feel if they found out their children were forced to learn and memorize a Hanuka song, or Muslim chant at some of their important religious days?

It is time to leave Christmas behind and start being a country of tolerance.

Canada was founded on Christian Culture, Christmas is part of that culture. No one is forced to celibrate Christmas. If a parent finds it objectable they can remove said child from the activities planned. You are what's wrong with this country, spewing your communist propaganda. Do you honestly think Canadians are going to sit back and let you Socialist replace our traditions and cultural beliefs with your Communist Diarrhea. Jebus communism is dead, never to be revived (god willing) so find another ideology to preach. Might I suggest Global Warming the left/left love the idea of Global Warming it's now a religion for the feeble minded.

Christmas is here and it's staying so is Easter, Halloween and all our other holidays. We will fight for our traditions and culture. The left have lost the battle to cull our culture to replace it with their ethos of nonsensical tripe.

charter.rights · December 28, 2007

Canada was founded on Christian Culture, Christmas is part of that culture. No one is forced to celibrate Christmas. If a parent finds it objectable they can remove said child from the activities planned. You are what's wrong with this country, spewing your communist propaganda. Do you honestly think Canadians are going to sit back and let you Socialist replace our traditions and cultural beliefs with your Communist Diarrhea. Jebus communism is dead, never to be revived (god willing) so find another ideology to preach. Might I suggest Global Warming the left/left love the idea of Global Warming it's now a religion for the feeble minded.
Christmas is here and it's staying so is Easter, Halloween and all our other holidays. We will fight for our traditions and culture. The left have lost the battle to cull our culture to replace it with their ethos of nonsensical tripe.

With all its tinsel trees, generic carols and holiday cheers, Christmas is any but a public holiday. Rather it will be gone officially within the next 1/2 decade or so.

Easter is another one that will be on the horizon pretty soon.

Who cares what Canada was founded on? It was also founded on the French scalping natives to prove they killed one too but that does not justify us being stuck in the past. It has no value in the New World Order and Canada is evolving to include EVERYONE. That means that Christian vlaues will fade and be replace by secular values instead. It means that Christian holidays (which IMV are pretty hypocritical) will be toosed out the window. That is a good thing.

I appreciate that you want Christmas around. So go to Church and celebrate there. Maybe - just maybe - people will be able to get back what it was really created for and not some fluffy overstuffed fat guy using credit cards at WalMart. I will even go to say that perhaps if you were a true Christian you would stop complaining and start practicing what you preach.

Wilber · December 28, 2007

Who cares what Canada was founded on? It was also founded on the French scalping natives to prove they killed one too but that does not justify us being stuck in the past. It has no value in the New World Order and Canada is evolving to include EVERYONE. That means that Christian vlaues will fade and be replace by secular values instead. It means that Christian holidays (which IMV are pretty hypocritical) will be toosed out the window. That is a good thing.

It would be a real shame but obviously this would have to go as well.

Link

kengs333 · December 28, 2007

There are many, many Muslim and Islamic people around the world who do not condone violence. What a mistaken and sweeping generality. Well, at least we know that brain washing and propaganda are working well and are doing what it is designed to do by those who push this crap.

This on a day when Bhutto was violently assassinated and riots have broken out all over Pakistan...

kengs333 · December 28, 2007

Who cares what Canada was founded on? It was also founded on the French scalping natives to prove they killed one too but that does not justify us being stuck in the past. It has no value in the New World Order and Canada is evolving to include EVERYONE. That means that Christian vlaues will fade and be replace by secular values instead. It means that Christian holidays (which IMV are pretty hypocritical) will be toosed out the window. That is a good thing.

It's only hypocritical if one is ignorant and is also prone to making sweeping generalizations about history and the people who founded this country. Anyone with a basic understanding of Canadian history will know that the Europeans who came here did so for a variety of reasons, and not all of them were died-in-the-wool Christians. It's easy to draw simplistic pictures of everybody in the past being ultra-pious, but then, just as now, people adhered to the Christian faith--if at all--to varying extents. Some who came, came for economic reasons alone, or adventure, to get away from various problems. Unless you can specifically show how a soldier or adventurer specifically killed Indians based on his Christian faith, you're just blowing chunks. As you always have. Moreover, let's not forget, when Champlain showed up with guns, his Indians friends were the ones who asked him to come along on a raid and do some target practice on their enemies. If it wasn't for Christianity and European ingenuity, the people of North American would still be subsisting on cornmeal, dried fish and venison, eating with their right hand, wiping their asses with their left, dying by the age of 40, and be being buried in the floors of their crudely-built longhouses.

kengs333 · December 28, 2007

I hate to say this but I've found christians to be among the most intolerant of any out there. Sure they dont go to the extremes some religious believers do, but they still condemn those who dont adhere to or follow what they believe. The whole letters incident serves only to illustrate this.

You're misusing the word tolerant. Why should Christians be "tolerant" of bad things when they clearly undermine their faith. "Intolerance" towards sin is different that "intolerance" of a person's ethnicity or opinions about politics and history.

You say that your boss is concerned about what people will say about his letting you work on Sunday. Good. That kind of awareness of other people's concern about their Christian faith being respected is a good thing. Having faith, a conviction, a desire to abide by the rules expected of Christians to be followed may seem to you as being "intolerant," but that is because you deny those things and would rather put yourself before others or faith in God. Having faith in God means making sacrifices, being committed to something; that entails a certain degree of submission, which I suppose outwardly would appear to be "intolerance" etc.

capricorn · December 28, 2007

Who cares what Canada was founded on?

You're some trolling Canadian I think. Though I'm not sure about the Canadian part.

Carinthia · December 28, 2007

This on a day when Bhutto was violently assassinated and riots have broken out all over Pakistan...

Yes, so? Nobody yet knows who was behind her murder.

charter.rights · December 28, 2007

You're misusing the word tolerant. Why should Christians be "tolerant" of bad things when they clearly undermine their faith. "Intolerance" towards sin is different that "intolerance" of a person's ethnicity or opinions about politics and history.
You say that your boss is concerned about what people will say about his letting you work on Sunday. Good. That kind of awareness of other people's concern about their Christian faith being respected is a good thing. Having faith, a conviction, a desire to abide by the rules expected of Christians to be followed may seem to you as being "intolerant," but that is because you deny those things and would rather put yourself before others or faith in God. Having faith in God means making sacrifices, being committed to something; that entails a certain degree of submission, which I suppose outwardly would appear to be "intolerance" etc.

If one's faith is rock solid then it can't be undermined. No one is trying to undermine the Christian faith either. They're just removing it from public and government priorities. It is a needed complete separation of Church and state.

"Having faith in God means making sacrifices...." Hogwash! The God I know demands nothing of me, nor I of Him. It is man that demands to satisfy the desires of the devil.

Christian intolerance is forcing their beliefs on others, and getting upset when being told to F.O. and mind their own business.

AngusThermopyle · December 28, 2007

You say that your boss is concerned about what people will say about his letting you work on Sunday. Good. That kind of awareness of other people's concern about their Christian faith being respected is a good thing.

(Just a note here, my boss is not a practising christian in any way. He's just a very good man.)

Well well, thank you for beautifully illustrating the point I was making.

From your response it would appear that you dont believe in freedom of religion or belief. It would even seem to extend to individual free will since you believe I should be restricted in my desire to work on Sundays in order to "respect" your personal religious choice.

How bout I just continue repecting it the way I always have? By not really giving a damn what you believe or choose to do unless it impacts my life in a negative way? In other words no special respect, but also no disrespect either. I suppose thats not good enough for you though, I should be happy to have my life dictated to (even in any small way) by your religious beliefs.

Like I said, very tolerant indeed.

kengs333 · December 28, 2007

If one's faith is rock solid then it can't be undermined. No one is trying to undermine the Christian faith either. They're just removing it from public and government priorities. It is a needed complete separation of Church and state.

No it's not a complete seperation of Church and state. Seeing that being Christian and having faith in God and a belief in his existence and the teachings of Christ is a good thing, the attempt to remove Christianity from the institutions of this country is an attempt to undermine Christianity. There's no two ways about it. Of course there's nothing to say that this can't happen; Christians have existed in such situations before, and still do in some parts of the world. Persecution is to be expected. But once the influence of Christianity has been removed, and people are disuaded or intimidated into not believing; they become sinners, and the people who force this upon them are sinners; regardless of whether or not they believe in God, God is the one true God and unbelief will not change the fact that there are consequences from what people like you do.

"Having faith in God means making sacrifices...." Hogwash! The God I know demands nothing of me, nor I of Him. It is man that demands to satisfy the desires of the devil.

You don't know God, because if you knew God you wouldn't make such a falacious statement. What God expects of us is clearly stated in the NT--any other source is false prophecy.

Christian intolerance is forcing their beliefs on others, and getting upset when being told to F.O. and mind their own business.

So wishing people not to be sinful and believe in God is "intolerant"? I don't think so. Jesus made it clear what is expected of his followers and that faith in God is the one true way.

kengs333 · December 28, 2007

(Just a note here, my boss is not a practising christian in any way. He's just a very good man.)
Well well, thank you for beautifully illustrating the point I was making.

From your response it would appear that you dont believe in freedom of religion or belief. It would even seem to extend to individual free will since you believe I should be restricted in my desire to work on Sundays in order to "respect" your personal religious choice.

How bout I just continue repecting it the way I always have? By not really giving a damn what you believe or choose to do unless it impacts my life in a negative way? In other words no special respect, but also no disrespect either. I suppose thats not good enough for you though, I should be happy to have my life dictated to (even in any small way) by your religious beliefs.

Like I said, very tolerant indeed.

Such hostility, anger, disrespect. A perfect example of how flawed your misguided God-hating wordview is.

AngusThermopyle · December 28, 2007

Such hostility, anger, disrespect. A perfect example of how flawed your misguided God-hating wordview is.

You misinterpret what you read, no anger or hatred here, just a profound disinterest in what you believe. Once again you assume to know what others think while ducking the point that was made.

So how exactly is expecting me (a non-religious person) to make concesions based on your religious beliefs an example of tolerence? Would that not merely be a variation on other religious groups expecting concesions based upon their beliefs?

December 28, 2007

With all its tinsel trees, generic carols and holiday cheers, Christmas is any but a public holiday. Rather it will be gone officially within the next 1/2 decade or so.

I disagree. While Christmas publicly may be celebrated secularly, it will not be "gone officially" any time soon and this article, even though it's about Britain, shows why.

Britain's cathedrals are laying on dozens of extra services to cope with large congregations this Christmas following record attendance levels last year, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

Official figures obtained by this newspaper show the numbers packing the pews on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day last year rose by 7.5 per cent compared with 2005.

The figure has risen by 37 per cent since the Millennium and many cathedrals face turning hundreds of people away from their carol services and midnight masses. Link

I don't think England is that different from Canada and/or the U.S.

Who cares what Canada was founded on? It was also founded on the French scalping natives to prove they killed one too but that does not justify us being stuck in the past. It has no value in the New World Order and Canada is evolving to include EVERYONE. That means that Christian vlaues will fade and be replace by secular values instead. It means that Christian holidays (which IMV are pretty hypocritical) will be toosed out the window. That is a good thing.

I disagree. It does matter what a nation was founded on. You wouldn't say "so what if Canada was founded on Democracy" in regards to communists moving in, right? You wouldn't say "we have to include everyone, so let's toss democracy out the window." Furthermore, your inclusion of "everyone" doesn't rule out English and French as your official languages. An immigrant has to speak English or French well enough to become a citizen. You're not accomodating every language in the world.

Furthermore, I think people emigrating to a new country have to recognize that that country has values that are important to the people already living there. I wouldn't move to a Muslim nation and expect them to change to accomodate me. I wouldn't move to Israel and expect them to change to accomodate me. Etc. Would you?

Being tolerant isn't just the majority accepting the minorities. The majorities aren't the only ones who have to be tolerant. Part of tolerance is the minorities recognizing and accepting what's important to the majority too.

Edited December 28, 2007 by American Woman

charter.rights · December 28, 2007

I disagree. While Christmas publicly may be celebrated secularly, it will not be "gone officially" any time soon and this article, even though it's about Britain, shows why.
Britain's cathedrals are laying on dozens of extra services to cope with large congregations this Christmas following record attendance levels last year, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

Official figures obtained by this newspaper show the numbers packing the pews on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day last year rose by 7.5 per cent compared with 2005.

The figure has risen by 37 per cent since the Millennium and many cathedrals face turning hundreds of people away from their carol services and midnight masses. Link

I don't think England is that different from Canada and/or the U.S.

I disagree. It does matter what a nation was founded on. You wouldn't say "so what if Canada was founded on Democracy" in regards to communists moving in, right? You wouldn't say "we have to include everyone, so let's toss democracy out the window." Furthermore, your inclusion of "everyone" doesn't rule out English and French as your official languages. An immigrant has to speak English or French well enough to become a citizen. You're not accomodating every language in the world.

Furthermore, I think people emigrating to a new country have to recognize that that country has values that are important to the people already living there. I wouldn't move to a Muslim nation and expect them to change to accomodate me. I wouldn't move to Israel and expect them to change to accomodate me. Etc. Would you?

Being tolerant isn't just the majority accepting the minorities. The majorities aren't the only ones who have to be tolerant. Part of tolerance is the minorities recognizing and accepting what's important to the majority too.

In America perhaps but not here. Canada IS different than the US and England.

AngusThermopyle · December 28, 2007

In America perhaps but not here. Canada IS different than the US and England.

Whoa!! Back up that pony!

Are you saying that in Canada we must tolerate all different races and their practices when they come here but they don't have to be tolerant of Canadian practices? Maybe in your personal vision of this country thats true, not mine though. As far as I'm concerned tolerance is a two way street, as I was just trying to point out to Kengs in regard to his religious beliefs.

I think your personal ideology may tend towards the Communistic, as evidenced by another statement you made claiming that the populace should serve the government. Thats fine, you're entitled to your opinion. Your personal opinion does not automatically become fact just because you believe it to be so.

I'm sure if you asked the average Canadian for their view on this they would overwhelming agree that tolerance should be a two way thing and not the one sided thing that I believe you espouse.

charter.rights · December 28, 2007

Whoa!! Back up that pony!
Are you saying that in Canada we must tolerate all different races and their practices when they come here but they don't have to be tolerant of Canadian practices? Maybe in your personal vision of this country thats true, not mine though. As far as I'm concerned tolerance is a two way street, as I was just trying to point out to Kengs in regard to his religious beliefs.

I think your personal ideology may tend towards the Communistic, as evidenced by another statement you made claiming that the populace should serve the government. Thats fine, you're entitled to your opinion. Your personal opinion does not automatically become fact just because you believe it to be so.

I'm sure if you asked the average Canadian for their view on this they would overwhelming agree that tolerance should be a two way thing and not the one sided thing that I believe you espouse.

You need to look at the realities my friend. There is far too much fantasy going in the far right wing enough for all Canadians than to be share with more liberal thinking people.

The reality is that we are subservient to the government. They take their percentage right off the top of our salaries before we see any of it and then make the rules under which we may claim some minor exemptions AFTER we have already paid them in full. We don't even have a say in how that money will be spent. There is no democratic process in Canada save and except perhaps small community councils where we can participate if we want.

As far as Charter Rights and the protection of immigrant rights I never claimed that we must believe in the things they do, but under the law we have to get Christianity and any other barriers, such as race out of the way of their opportunities to expand themselves into Canadian society. And just like we have to modify our buildings to accommodate those with disabilities, we are equally required by law to ignore race and religion as basis for rejecting, or accepting someone in a job and modify our policies and our HR management to remove the barriers that prevent equal access to jobs and opportunities.

The reality is that Canada is much more tolerant of immigrants and their culture and religious practices. We even entrench the protection of their rights into codes and laws. That isn't communist it is just the way things are in an oligarchy that pretends to be a democracy.

Oleg Bach · December 28, 2007

You need to look at the realities my friend. There is far too much fantasy going in the far right wing enough for all Canadians than to be share with more liberal thinking people.
The reality is that we are subservient to the government. They take their percentage right off the top of our salaries before we see any of it and then make the rules under which we may claim some minor exemptions AFTER we have already paid them in full. We don't even have a say in how that money will be spent. There is no democratic process in Canada save and except perhaps small community councils where we can participate if we want.

As far as Charter Rights and the protection of immigrant rights I never claimed that we must believe in the things they do, but under the law we have to get Christianity and any other barriers, such as race out of the way of their opportunities to expand themselves into Canadian society. And just like we have to modify our buildings to accommodate those with disabilities, we are equally required by law to ignore race and religion as basis for rejecting, or accepting someone in a job and modify our policies and our HR management to remove the barriers that prevent equal access to jobs and opportunities.

The reality is that Canada is much more tolerant of immigrants and their culture and religious practices. We even entrench the protection of their rights into codes and laws. That isn't communist it is just the way things are in an oligarchy that pretends to be a democracy.

Most of you don't get it. Most immigrants come here because of the very nature of our society - fair play - social benevolence, justice and all that good stuff that was generated in the begining because of Christian doctrine - they like Chistmas! Seems that the immigrants do not have a problem with Christan values of old - seems that we have the problem. We seek to destroy those great values and the immigrants are desperately attempting to embrace what we are systemically thwart through the insidiousness of political correctness - stop blaming the immigrants for what you have abandoned. The ruling class have become the greatest deseminators of anti-christism..How delluded these folks are the former Christians that now control our banks and instututions...better as I said before to look in the mirror - multi-culturalism does not exist - the immigrants came here because it was supposed to be a more gentle and sweet place - now they are finding out that the powers that be are barbarians and pointing the figure at the immigrants..saying it is they that are un-civilized..hypocrites.

AngusThermopyle · December 28, 2007

Well I must say that I do agree with you on your point about us having government without representation.

I also agree that race and religion should not be barriers to employment.

I do not believe we should downgrade standards in order to employ those who would not normally be employable in the capacity they seek. Unfortunately that is exactly what happens in many cases though, for instance, the Halifax Fire Department revising the academic requirements in order to attract and hire more visible minorities.

As for the rest however, I must have misunderstood what you were saying. It appeared to me that you were saying we (Canadians) should be tolerant to any who come here but not expect them to show the same tolerance toward Canadians and Canadian customs. My mistake.

There is far too much fantasy going in the far right wing

I believe that this exact same thing can be safely stated about the far left wing as well.

Edited December 28, 2007 by AngusThermopyle

AngusThermopyle · December 28, 2007

they like Chistmas! Seems that the immigrants do not have a problem with Christan values of old - seems that we have the problem.

Well Oleg, I find myself in agreement with you on this point. From what I've seen the vast majority of them don't have any problem with Christmas, there may be a few whiners, but not the majority.

I'm non religious, as I've stated before, but I have no problem with Christmas, Easter, or any other such celebration, in fact I enjoy them. I think the best part is the kids excitement, at least for me it is.

kengs333 · December 29, 2007

You misinterpret what you read, no anger or hatred here, just a profound disinterest in what you believe. Once again you assume to know what others think while ducking the point that was made.

Anger:

By not really giving a damn what you believe or choose

Disrespect:

In other words no special respect

Hostility:

I suppose thats not good enough for you though, I should be happy to have my life dictated to (even in any small way) by your religious beliefs.

I'm not "assum[ing] to know what others think," I'm basing my opinions on the very words that you write. The fact that you try to cover yourself by claiming "no anger or hatred here" or that your "no special respect" isn't really "disrespect" isn't fooling anyone. Nice try, though.

In the end, when I look at the attitude people like you have, when I see people willfully deny God and speak maliciously about Christianity, and then see them engage in behaviour that is destructive to both themselves and society, it's clear to me that any argument that people like you is unfounded. You try to argue that as a Christian I should be "tolerant" of everything that people do or believe, eventhough there is nothing in the teachings of Christ that suggest such a thing. Christ taught that there is a definite right way of living one's life, and not striving to do so is wrong. Wrong behaviour is in defiance of God's will, because wrong behaviour is destructive. I really shouldn't have to explain this. We all know what happens to people who live intemperate lives; there are innumerable examples of this. God wants people to be good, moral people who do not live in sin--so I question the real motives of people who would rather see this not be the case. You can couch your attitude toward God and Christianity however you want, but in the end the intent is no different than that of others who are more forthright in their hostility.