Harper Having Trouble

[noahbody]

The vast majority said that Kyoto was a major issue and that is probably one of the reasons the Tories are in a statistical tie with the Liberals.

Funny, I could have sworn a post earlier you said "The 69% number is the total amount of people who say they don't care if the government implements Kyoto," so no Kyoto isn't the be all end all.

Many of the right wing here think that global warming is a) a hoax not worth really doing anything about c) Canada shouldn't have do anything unless everyone in the world is doing it.

That's nice. Harper has hinted tough domestic targets are coming. I would think this will satisfy those who want something meaningful done.

[jdobbin]

Funny, I could have sworn a post earlier you said "The 69% number is the total amount of people who say they don't care if the government implements Kyoto," so no Kyoto isn't the be all end all.

You forgot to add: "so long as they take real action to make the environment better."

The Tories tried to introduce water and air pollution measures and nothing on emissions and that didn't work. Then they rejected their new bill after that because the Opposition made amendments to it.

That's nice. Harper has hinted tough domestic targets are coming. I would think this will satisfy those who want something meaningful done.

I'll believe it when I see it. So far all we have seen is obstructionism.

Latest Decima report.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...-58GSq7WLBNtlWw

Anderson speculated that the government's reluctance to sign onto global greenhouse gas reduction targets in Bali cost the Tories support among urban, women and Quebec voters, who tend to be more environmentally conscious.

Edited January 4, 2008 by jdobbin

[noahbody]

The Tories tried to introduce water and air pollution measures and nothing on emissions and that didn't work. Then they rejected their new bill after that because the Opposition made amendments to it.

"What we're really doing here is rewriting the bill entirely," said Liberal environment critic David McGuinty, as the committee concluded a four-hour meeting on the legislation.

Amendments eh?

The revised bill will contain a commitment to international emissions carbon trading under the Kyoto Protocol.

I think that was the "let's give away 10 to 20 billion clause." Would you have voted for this? And if so, explain all of the good it would have done.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...nair_act_070327

Edited January 4, 2008 by noahbody

[jdobbin]

Amendments eh?

I think that was the "let's give away 10 to 20 billion clause." Would you have voted for this? And if so, explain all of the good it would have done.

The Tories weren't interested in doing anything. They talk about give aways to cover for the fact that they have no intention of doing anything in regards to emissions. Bali made that much plain.

[noahbody]

The Tories weren't interested in doing anything. They talk about give aways to cover for the fact that they have no intention of doing anything in regards to emissions. Bali made that much plain.

Your leader acknowledges that the government has a plan:

He described the current government's plan as one that would meet Canada's Kyoto targets but two decades behind schedule.

Dion is like the driver who drove for miles the wrong direction, then sits in the back seat and blames the next driver for being late.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/12/11/dion-climate.html

Edited to add link.

Edited January 4, 2008 by noahbody

[Argus]

From the Globe and Mail today.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

I think there will be a lot of pressure on Harper now when it comes to the environment.

As opposed to last year?

They will have to be bold if they hope to avoid being connected to Bush and obstruction on global warming.

No matter what the Tories do Liberal spin doctors in the media and on the web will do their damndest to connect them to the Bush administration. Remember what a joke it was last election when Martin did that, condemning the US for not signing onto global warming like the glorious Liberal Party? Then it emerged that George Bush had done more than twice as well as the Liberal Party in terms of restraining emissions. LOL

[Argus]

I was surprised that Harper appointed someone to consider what the government should do on Mulroney and Shreiber. I said that the Tories should have deported Shreiber..

Your party MPs and leader were all but screaming and waling and pulling out their hair in clumps at the thought of Shreiber being deported. I think the entire Liberal caucus would have run down to the airport and laid down in front of the airplane to keep it from departing, all the while screaming about the "coverup".

Edited January 4, 2008 by Argus

[Argus]

It is amazing how many times some people read a poll and still don't get it.

The 69% number is the total amount of people who say they don't care if the government implements Kyoto, only that they take meaningful action on emissions. Instead, they saw the Tories be obstructionist in Bali and try to block legislation supported by the majority of parties in the House of Commons.

The majority of the parties in the House of Commons insiste we meet Kyoto, no matter what the cost, which 69% of the people think is not really necessary.

Why is the Liberal Party ignoring the will of the people?

[capricorn]

No matter what the Tories do Liberal spin doctors in the media and on the web will do their damndest to connect them to the Bush administration. Remember what a joke it was last election when Martin did that, condemning the US for not signing onto global warming like the glorious Liberal Party? Then it emerged that George Bush had done more than twice as well as the Liberal Party in terms of restraining emissions. LOL

There's already a move afoot to replace the comparison of Harper and the Conservatives to Bush with a comparison to Republicans. This tweaking will come in handy in the next election. Since Bush will soon be replaced by a new President the Bush comparison would be a rather empty message and most of all, not scary.

[jdobbin]

The majority of the parties in the House of Commons insiste we meet Kyoto, no matter what the cost, which 69% of the people think is not really necessary.

Why is the Liberal Party ignoring the will of the people?

Because Harper says politicians shouldn't be governed by polls?

[jdobbin]

No matter what the Tories do Liberal spin doctors in the media and on the web will do their damndest to connect them to the Bush administration. Remember what a joke it was last election when Martin did that, condemning the US for not signing onto global warming like the glorious Liberal Party? Then it emerged that George Bush had done more than twice as well as the Liberal Party in terms of restraining emissions. LOL

I'd suggest George Bush has done very little in regards to U.S. emissions. The driving force in the U.S. comes from anyone but.

[jdobbin]

Dion is like the driver who drove for miles the wrong direction, then sits in the back seat and blames the next driver for being late.

Not for being late. For not being there at all.

[jdobbin]

Your party MPs and leader were all but screaming and waling and pulling out their hair in clumps at the thought of Shreiber being deported. I think the entire Liberal caucus would have run down to the airport and laid down in front of the airplane to keep it from departing, all the while screaming about the "coverup".

And your party was saying there was nothing to be done about him being deported which even the non-partisan Parliamentary counsel said was untrue.

[noahbody]

Not for being late. For not being there at all.

Once again:

He described the current government's plan as one that would meet Canada's Kyoto targets but two decades behind schedule.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/12/11/dion-climate.html

[jdobbin]

Once again:

To whit: they is still no evidence they intend to do anything at all.

Their actions in Bali certainly don't indicate a willingness to act.

But he added, "It's very sad to see that Canada was a leader two years ago to bring the world together, and now Canada is saying exactly the opposite."

The Liberal leader also met Tuesday with Canadian environmentalists, who say the government has refused to meet with them even though Ottawa's delegation includes an oil company and other business executives.

Environmentalists have accused the Tories of deliberately undermining the climate talks, with several provincial governments, including Ontario and Quebec, and a number of foreign delegations echoing their criticism.

This is a government that can't be trusted on the issue. They don't really believe in it and will do anything to get out of a committment to do anything on the issue of emissions.

[noahbody]

The Liberal leader also met Tuesday with Canadian environmentalists, who say the government has refused to meet with them even though Ottawa's delegation includes an oil company and other business executives.

I wonder if he thanked them for his fossil award.

[Michael Bluth]

I wonder if he thanked them for his fossil award.

That's an *interesting* omission from when this meeting was originally posted.

[Oleg Bach]

That's an *interesting* omission from when this meeting was originally posted.

Poor little Stevie Harper. At least he get a Lear Jet and gets to sit at the controls of a helicopter once in a while - not flying of course - guess he never thought being the prime servant of Richard the shot gun Cheney would be so much fun. What some chumps will do to be president of the highschool debating team. Who installed this boy king anyway? Maybe there is a guy somewhere in a men shelter hunkering down for the winter that could advice Steve? Bet there is more character and better leaders doing time in Kingston then in Ottawa - guess the is where they send their competion - to the pen - early - may as well nip future leadership in the bud and just find...a hockey loving doink to do what he is told...to think I lobbied for this twit - I may just become a liberal out of sheer spite - Harper is a huge disappointment - really thought that he would put the screws to the liberals - but no - he put the screws to liberals and conservatives! What a renegade traitor this boy turned out to be - to have sided with American crimminals.

[Michael Bluth]

I may just become a liberal out of sheer spite

Oleg I encourage you to donate your time and passion to the Liberal Party of Canada.

Here is a link to the Liberal Party of Canada's online form for e-volunteers.

Best of luck to you!

[Oleg Bach]

Oleg I encourage you to donate your time and passion to the Liberal Party of Canada.

Here is a link to the Liberal Party of Canada's online form for e-volunteers.

Best of luck to you!

You know - I am a radical moderate in a sense - but after all is said and done - and yes I can be very right wing - almost conservative in the traditional sense when there was conservatism...and good things were conserved - but standing on a subway train today.....and looking at all the depressed and disappointed immigrants - all I could do was love the poor bastards....maybe the liberal spirit is fading - BUT - perhaps...a guy like me....can assist in the re-spiriting of real liberalism - which should be the liberation of all! E-mail me the link - [email protected] so at least I can store it - I am all over the place - actually just revitalizing and getting energized....hiding out for the winter - I don't blame the liberals for my recent hardships but I am preturbed with so-called conservative policy that is not really conserving anything - when conservatism becomes strickly the conducting of buisness for a small group - then it's time to liberate and be a liberal - I have a good conserving mind - but also a liberal heart .....freedom for all - diginity for all......see you later - and thanks.

[Argus]

Because Harper says politicians shouldn't be governed by polls?

Are you saying the Liberal Party of Canada takes its directions from Stephen Harper?

[Argus]

I'd suggest George Bush has done very little in regards to U.S. emissions. The driving force in the U.S. comes from anyone but.

I would tend to agree, and yet, he still did twice as well as your party. So if Bush is bad, what does that make you guys?

[Argus]

To whit: they is still no evidence they intend to do anything at all.

Their actions in Bali certainly don't indicate a willingness to act.

This is a government that can't be trusted on the issue. They don't really believe in it and will do anything to get out of a committment to do anything on the issue of emissions.

Your government made commitments it never had any intention of even trying to live up to. And the same people are still in charge.

Where is the evidence the Liberal Party will do one single thing about emissions? They clearly don't believe emissions are a problem or they would have done something about them when they were in power.

[Argus]

Poor little Stevie Harper. At least he get a Lear Jet and gets to sit at the controls of a helicopter once in a while - not flying of course - guess he never thought being the prime servant of Richard the shot gun Cheney would be so much fun. What some chumps will do to be president of the highschool debating team. Who installed this boy king anyway? Maybe there is a guy somewhere in a men shelter hunkering down for the winter that could advice Steve? Bet there is more character and better leaders doing time in Kingston then in Ottawa - guess the is where they send their competion - to the pen - early - may as well nip future leadership in the bud and just find...a hockey loving doink to do what he is told...to think I lobbied for this twit - I may just become a liberal out of sheer spite - Harper is a huge disappointment - really thought that he would put the screws to the liberals - but no - he put the screws to liberals and conservatives! What a renegade traitor this boy turned out to be - to have sided with American crimminals.

What a rambling, barely coherent, barely sane rant.

By all means, do become a Liberal. Please.

[jdobbin]

Your government made commitments it never had any intention of even trying to live up to. And the same people are still in charge.

Where is the evidence the Liberal Party will do one single thing about emissions? They clearly don't believe emissions are a problem or they would have done something about them when they were in power.

As has been pointed out here by some of your right wing friends, emissions were coming down even with the Liberals in 2004-2005. I still think it was insufficient and late considering how much time they had to prepare. The Tories came in and cancelled the Liberal programs because they didn't believe the science. Then they re-instated them when it hurt them in the polls. They've dragged their feet ever since with their intensity based targets and attempt to derail Bali.