CBC Ombudsman to do Internal Investigation

[jefferiah]

There is no market in the U.S. for hockey.

Americans are good at business. If an American network took over Canadian sports I am sure we would have affiliate channels here. For the affiliate it is more beneficial to show programming which is successful in the vicinity of the affiliate. Lets create a fictional sports network to illustrate. SportsTvForever we will call it. Well SportsTVForever has stations in each major city in Canada. And when there is an important sporting event in Toronto, SportsTVForever will air that event, while on the same night SportsTVForever Vancouver will air a sporting event involving the Vancouver home team.

[jefferiah]

The NHL pays NBC to put those hockey games on TV. Without some of the broadcast money from Canada to help underwrite the costs of the NHL, they could not afford to it. The U.S. market makes very little from TV revenue in the U.S.

Throughout the regular season the CBC shows very little hockey. Saturday night, thats it.

And once again I am not arguing for an outright boot to the CBC. I think they could stand some cuts. And they could stand to do a much better job with taxpayer money. It should not matter whether the programming is all Canadian. What should matter is "Do most Canadians want to watch this show?"

Edited December 18, 2007 by jefferiah

[jdobbin]

I don't know exactly what you mean by "beat the majority of US programming", but I think you are dreaming. Everyweek BBM lists the top shows in Canada. Just about everyweek CBC is absent. Just about every week CTV and Global share alternate spots on the top ten list. Just about everyweek those shows on that list are from American networks.

Yes there are Canadians who do watch shows in Canada made for Canada. They are a minority. Do you know why in America shows like Are You Being Served (UK) is on PBS and not on CBS? Because they have a smaller audience. That is what CBC shows are like here.

I said the top 10 is usually American shows. The 20 or 30 will have Canadian shows or movies.

http://www.bbm.ca/en/nat12032007.pdf

With only 13 episodes of many Canadian comedy and drama series, they are often absent from the schedule on a week to week basis. Average amount of U.S. episodes is 22. Average amount of programming that the U.S. produces in a season is about 160 to 180 programs.

Are You Being Served along with a lot of British programming often comes from Canadians who support PBS in border stations.

[blueblood]

The NHL pays NBC to put those hockey games on TV. Without some of the broadcast money from Canada to help underwrite the costs of the NHL, they could not afford to it. The U.S. market makes very little from TV revenue in the U.S.

I was saying IF there was no Canadian channels, the die hards would flock to FSN, versus, and NBC. The ratings they would get from Canadian die hards would spin that scenario the other way around. There are 30 million people in Canada, that's a big resource for American TV, they would cater to us if it was a free for all especially in Sports. Why would anyone want to alienate all those viewers?

[jefferiah]

I said the top 10 is usually American shows. The 20 or 30 will have Canadian shows or movies.

http://www.bbm.ca/en/nat12032007.pdf

With only 13 episodes of many Canadian comedy and drama series, they are often absent from the schedule on a week to week basis. Average amount of U.S. episodes is 22. Average amount of programming that the U.S. produces in a season is about 160 to 180 programs.

Are You Being Served along with a lot of British programming often comes from Canadians who support PBS in border stations.

You are smoking something Dobbin if you think fewer episodes is the only reason. I can tell you right now most people do not favour Corner Gas or Little Mosque over any American shows. Do you seriously believe they do?

[jdobbin]

Throughout the regular season the CBC shows very little hockey. Saturday night, thats it.

And once again I am not arguing for an outright boot to the CBC. I think they could stand some cuts. And they could stand to do a much better job with taxpayer money. It should not matter whether the programming is all Canadian. What should matter is "Do most Canadians want to watch this show?"

CBC has faced numerous cut over the years. I'd rather see the network dropped completely than to hear more complaints about how bad it is.

But then I think the whole broadcast industry needs reforms.

[jdobbin]

You are smoking something Dobbin if you think fewer episodes is the only reason. I can tell you right now most people do not favour Corner Gas or Little Mosque over any American shows. Do you seriously believe they do?

Corner Gas gets excellent ratings in Canada. In some instances it has blown all it competitors away with boffo ratings.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/prin...bhub=PrintStory

It was the highest rated comedy series of all comedies series in Canada and beat all U.S. comedy series in ratings in Canada. It was so good last year, CTV committed to 19 episodes this year.

Little Mosque was struggling in its Wednesday slot but now after Rick Mercer is getting back in the up 30. Mercer is in the top 20.

[jdobbin]

I was saying IF there was no Canadian channels, the die hards would flock to FSN, versus, and NBC. The ratings they would get from Canadian die hards would spin that scenario the other way around. There are 30 million people in Canada, that's a big resource for American TV, they would cater to us if it was a free for all especially in Sports. Why would anyone want to alienate all those viewers?

FSN doesn't get ads from Canadian companies. Nor do any American networks measure ratings in Canada because it is not considered their target market for advertisers.

[blueblood]

FSN doesn't get ads from Canadian companies. Nor do any American networks measure ratings in Canada because it is not considered their target market for advertisers.

Of course it doesn't I was showing a hypothetical situation, sorry for confusion.

[M.Dancer]

FSN doesn't get ads from Canadian companies. Nor do any American networks measure ratings in Canada because it is not considered their target market for advertisers.

Well...the networks might not but no so with the border cities. The Buffalo/Niagara Falls NY stations consider toronto there largest market and actively pursue canadian advertisers. The same used to be true for Plattsburg and Montreal.

[M.Dancer]

Production rarely makes money in a big way. It is why Canwest and Alliance got out of production a few years ago.

Unless of course you are the producer of Avonlea, Anne of Green Gables, TPB, Rent a Goalie, Corner Flatulence, LMotP.....

[Shakeyhands]

what was the question anyway and what was Mulroneys answer?

[jdobbin]

Unless of course you are the producer of Avonlea, Anne of Green Gables, TPB, Rent a Goalie, Corner Flatulence, LMotP.....

None of which was able to recover its production costs in Canada. They all required assistance from the federal government and provincial governments.

[jdobbin]

Well...the networks might not but no so with the border cities. The Buffalo/Niagara Falls NY stations consider toronto there largest market and actively pursue canadian advertisers. The same used to be true for Plattsburg and Montreal.

Canadian advertisers buying ads in those markets don't receive ratings information from Nielson about how many Canadians watch their programming. It isn't something that is recorded presently. I suppose it could be if we got rid of all Canadian TV.

At the moment, Canadian advertisers buy ad space in border stations based on the best guess work available about what Canadians are watching. Also, Canadian companies who advertise in the U.S. for the Canadian market do not get the same tax benefits if my past research on the subject is correct.

If we got rid of all Canadian TV, it is possible a U.S. company might cater a sports network's coverage to have more NHL games. However, since the main market for a U.S. network is always going to be the U.S., there is no guarantee that they would be super interested in going after such a small market on the hope that Canadian advertisers would buy ads at a higher rate than U.S. companies might for monster truck shows.

Edited December 18, 2007 by jdobbin

[guyser]

If we got rid of all Canadian TV, it is possible a U.S. company might cater a sports network's coverage to have more NHL games. However, since the main market for a U.S. network is always going to be the U.S., there is no guarantee that they would be super interested in going after such a small market on the hope that Canadian advertisers would buy ads at a higher rate than U.S. companies might for monster truck shows.

I think we would be greatly underserved if we were to get rid of CDN tv. The only saving grace is that they may start a subsidiary and we would get back to where we came.Add to that the people who work the shows, the cameramen et al, would hopefully ensure a good product. In sports ,TSN/CBC have the best production for hockey seen anywhere. If the team colours were blocked out from a highlights package, I could tell you who the carrying netwrok wasn't.

Barring that though, I dont think they understand the market. It seems some here dont either. College football games draw less than CIAU games, CFL garner more eyes than NFL ,curling beats everything else , so who is going to carry those products?

[M.Dancer]

Canadian advertisers buying ads in those markets don't receive ratings information from Neilson about how many Canadians watch their programming. It isn't something that is recorded presently. I suppose it could be if we got rid of all Canadian TV.

You are correct. They would get the audience info from BBM if one of the stations paid to be measured. I don't know if they measure every week, but I have seen audience figures for Hamilton and Toronto for one of the Fox outlets.

[White Doors]

No reason to get rid of it. Just make it a true public broadcaster and follow the PBS and NPR models in terms of relative funding within the market.

Agreed 100% PBS is 10x the channel cbc is and that is all privately funded.

[M.Dancer]

Agreed 100% PBS is 10x the channel cbc is and that is all privately funded.

Not quite. While the Public Begging System get sizable cash from the private purse, they also get federal funding under the umbrella of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

The Corporation gets in the ballpark of 300 million from Washington and PBS receives near $50 from the Corporation.

Edited December 18, 2007 by M.Dancer

[White Doors]

Not quite. While the Public Begging System get sizable cash from the private purse, they also get federal funding under the umbrella of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

The Corporation gets in the ballpark of 300 million from Washington and PBS receives near $50 from the Corporation.

well even that is much better. heck, if it was 50/50 from the viewers and the punlic I'd be happy.

Either way, make it better at the very least.

[Michael Bluth]

Not quite. While the Public Begging System get sizable cash from the private purse, they also get federal funding under the umbrella of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

The Corporation gets in the ballpark of 300 million from Washington and PBS receives near $50 from the Corporation.

Factoring in population size that $300 million the CfPB gets in the US would be worth a little under $35 million CAD.

Cut the CBCs financing to that much and I'm fine and dandy with it.

[guyser]

Cut the CBCs financing to that much and I'm fine and dandy with it.

Even for Newsworld ?

...crickets.....

[Michael Bluth]

Even for Newsworld ?

$30 million in Government funding for all of CBC's operations is fine.

...ladybugs....

[madmax]

Queue fake outrage.

The horror, the horror.

Edited December 18, 2007 by madmax

[jdobbin]

You are correct. They would get the audience info from BBM if one of the stations paid to be measured. I don't know if they measure every week, but I have seen audience figures for Hamilton and Toronto for one of the Fox outlets.

Nielson owns BBM. I've never seen the figures for elsewhere in Canada. Perhaps Ontario is different. I guess then we can get rid of Canadian TV at any time then and the only problem would be the tax situation which could be changed with legislation.

Edited December 18, 2007 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

Not quite. While the Public Begging System get sizable cash from the private purse, they also get federal funding under the umbrella of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

The Corporation gets in the ballpark of 300 million from Washington and PBS receives near $50 from the Corporation.

Not to mention that the tax receipt donor get from giving.