Muslim father chokes daughter to near death

[Dkz]

Still more Sikhs and Hindus in the US of A....between 500,000 and 1,000,000, but you say they are not signficant. So what does a much smaller number in Canada mean.....they are more in-significant? Why are there more Sikhs and Hindus in evil and wicked America? There are hundreds of Gurdwaras in the United States today.

I work with Sikhs and Hindus every day....they like Seinfeld.

With the exception of maybe Southall, England there isn't a single place outside of India on this earth that has a Sikh population the size of what is in Vancouver, Canada. 200,000+ Sikhs annually participate in several 'Nagar Keertan' parades in the lower mainland of BC celebrating the birth of the Khalsa. Outside of India no other place has that many Sikhs in 1 spot. The numbers of Sikhs in Canada and US is almost identical but in the US they are not in all in 1 place with the exception of California around Yuba City where they have some numbers. In Canada, most Sikhs are in either Toronto and Vancouver. Hindus are a separate and distinct group from Sikhs. Saying 'Sikhs and Hindus' is like saying 'Christians and Jews' or 'Jews and Muslims'.

[M.Dancer]

Most of these countries where these honor killings occurr (esp Pakistan) have governments fully backed by the USA.

What a nonsenscial thing to spout.

What? Like canada?

Or like Iran?

And wtf does "fully backed" mean aside from yoiu thinking it sounds good?

[bush_cheney2004]

With the exception of maybe Southall, England there isn't a single place outside of India on this earth that has a Sikh population the size of what is in Vancouver, Canada.

So what....stop dodging the obvious...there are more Sikhs in the UK and USA (about 1,250,000) than in all of Canada (350,000), which includes Vancouver. That would be the same UK and USA that bombed Iraq and Afghanistan. More Sikhs...by choice.....voting with their feet and wallets.

Don't worry, I get a lot of these comparison tests just for yuks.....Americans come from all over the world, including India...and there's lots more of 'em. No brag......just fact.

[jbg]

If the US just minded its own business maybe 9-11 wouldn't have happened. They have so many people in so many different countries pissed off at them. Here are some reasons why:

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa02.html

Do I see maybe a smidge of anti-Americanism there? Is it possible that Canadians wouldn't be so free to throw rocks at the US if they had to mount a real defense effort?

[cybercoma]

...in the context of other problems prominant amongst white America such as being gay, polygamy, having kids out of wedlock and divorce [honour murder] ranks somewhere in there.

You're comparing murder to divorce and consensual adult sex. What a joke. Except, it's not funny, it's sad.

Most of these countries where these honor killings occurr (esp Pakistan) have governments fully backed by the USA.

And? Boo, USA. Maybe they should pass a law saying people in other countries shouldn't.... oh wait. They don't make laws for other countries, do they?

[bush_cheney2004]

Do I see maybe a smidge of anti-Americanism there? Is it possible that Canadians wouldn't be so free to throw rocks at the US if they had to mount a real defense effort?

Well, it's fine with me if it means one less Canadian father strangling his daughter to death....Muslim or not!

[jbg]

The numbers of Sikhs in Canada and US is almost identical but in the US they are not in all in 1 place with the exception of California around Yuba City where they have some numbers.

How many are in/around Yuba City?

[bush_cheney2004]

How many are in/around Yuba City?

The entire metro area is about 165,000.....Sikhs about 20% except for swelling numbers for the big parade in November.

http://www.geocities.com/gurdwaraworld/yuba1.html

[M.Dancer]

Sikhs represent 20% of my office.

He gets along well with everyone.

[jbg]

The numbers of Sikhs in Canada and US is almost identical but in the US they are not in all in 1 place with the exception of California around Yuba City where they have some numbers.

The fact that they are spread out and integrated into US society speaks volumes of the success of Canadian multiculturalism.

[capricorn]

Do I see maybe a smidge of anti-Americanism there? Is it possible that Canadians wouldn't be so free to throw rocks at the US if they had to mount a real defense effort?

jbg, do you thing Dkz is a Canadian? I ask because Canadians usually make a point and wait for a response to their comments. You know how polite and self-effacing we are and all that.

[bush_cheney2004]

The fact that they are spread out and integrated into US society speaks volumes of the success of Canadian multiculturalism.

Ouch....don't hurt 'em like that...low blow.

Hell, we had Sikh and Hindu in Jonny Quest cartoons over 40 years ago. Now that's cultural sensitivity!

[jbg]

jbg, do you thing Dkz is a Canadian? I ask because Canadians usually make a point and wait for a response to their comments. You know how polite and self-effacing we are and all that.

I would not hazard a guess. I know as little about Canada as any American.

[Rue]

Do I see maybe a smidge of anti-Americanism there? Is it possible that Canadians wouldn't be so free to throw rocks at the US if they had to mount a real defense effort?

I am not sure about whether he's expressing anti-YankieImperialistGoHome as much as he is a very popular belief that terrorism (bad things) only happen to bad people (Israelis, Americans) and terrorists have no animosity for anyone else. To me its nothing more then trying to rationalize chaos and terror as logical and rational and if you close your eyes to it, it goes away.

To many people. since 9-11 penetrated close to home and killed white people and is not far away in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem or the West Bank or some dusty corner in Sudan or some other third world country with someone different then them, it now is too close, so this wishful thinking that it can go away and remain with the savages elsewhere if we just ignore it, kicks in.

Interestingly I find the same people that just don't want to get involved and think if you leave terrorists alone they will ignore you also are blissfully ignorant of the fact that as long as they consume energy and fossel fuels and demand the lifestyle they do, these terrorists will necessarily exist.

They do not see any relationship between their lifestyle and world conflict and it is of course very Canadian to think we are good guys and no one hates us its only the Americans or Israelis that terrorists hate.

Yah right. But your people do need to learn to buy more Canadian products, keep their hands off the North,

and remember the world's most beautiful woman, Halle Berry couldn't be satisfied until she found herself a Canadian. Fool. She should have held out for moi.

[Guest American Woman]

jbg, do you thing Dkz is a Canadian? I ask because Canadians usually make a point and wait for a response to their comments. You know how polite and self-effacing we are and all that.

Not all of you are polite. Dkz is a Canadian.

[Guest American Woman]

However, honor killings are far from isolated. It's a real problem, and until it's addressed, it will remain a problem that will only only get worse. Denying it doesn't make it not so

I'm not denying that its not a problem, but in the context of other problems prominant amongst white America such as being gay, polygamy, having kids out of wedlock and divorce it ranks somewhere in there.

Really? You think "murder" ranks somewhere with being gay, polygamous, having kids out of wedlock, and divorce? Because those are all as horrible as murder? And here I didn't even realize being gay was a "problem," much less one "somewhere in there" with murder.

As long as Islamic nations let people get away with it, one cannot separate honor killings from Islam. As long as Muslims in other western nation are engaging in honor killings, one cannot separate honor killings from Islam.

Most of these countries where these honor killings occurr (esp Pakistan) have governments fully backed by the USA.

Well, since I've pointed out that honor killings are happening in the western world too, what are you saying exactly? And while you're at it, could you explain how Pakistan's government is "fully backed" by the U.S.?

Edited January 3, 2008 by American Woman

[AngusThermopyle]

It may very well be culturally motivated. There is no way that it can be religiously motivated. No religion tells you to go and kill people. No religion tells you that a hijab must be worn at all times. Before opening your mouth at least take the time to find out what a religion says about something. Do some research.

Perhaps you should take your own advice. Read the Koran before you talk. In many places repeatedly it does indeed call for killing those who wont convert. It also states that beating your woman is a good practice.

Have you ever read it? If so, did you understand what you read?

P.S. IRA, politically motivated and driven, hence the name Irish Republican Army. Geeze! Do some research why dontcha!

Edited January 3, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[Rue]

Perhaps you should take your own advice. Read the Koran before you talk. In many places repeatedly it does indeed call for killing those who wont convert. It also states that beating your woman is a good practice.

Have you ever read it? If so, did you understand what you read?

P.S. IRA, politically motivated and driven, hence the name Irish Republican Army. Geeze! Do some research why dontcha!

The Bible is full of references in both the New and old Testament as to the exact same sexist references you point out in the Koran. That is the point you completely missed and still miss in your above response. No one is denying the Koran has many passages that have been used to condone violence and intolerance of women and non Muslims. But perhaps you need to do some research to understand the Koran is far from unique in that regard and the fact that it says what it does does not make all Muslims evil wife beaters just as it does not mean you have to be a sexist to be a true Christian just because the Bible is full of sexist references.

By the way, maybe you should check out just how many groups in North America that advocate violence claim to be Christian. Sorry but I do not divide the world into simple black and white generalizations.

[Rue]

Not all of you are polite. Dkz is a Canadian.

Shut up! (sorry I was just trying to feel what it would be if I were not Canadian) (felt strange)

p.s. yes we will all line up in one line and wait for the same cashier when 8 are open and empty.

p.s.s. yes as pedestrians we stand at red lights when the intersection is completely empty at 5 a.m.

p.s.s.s. oh its true we do say thank you when an American pushes in front of us in line

[jbg]

Shut up! (sorry I was just trying to feel what it would be if I were not Canadian) (felt strange)

p.s. yes we will all line up in one line and wait for the same cashier when 8 are open and empty.

p.s.s. yes as pedestrians we stand at red lights when the intersection is completely empty at 5 a.m.

p.s.s.s. oh its true we do say thank you when an American pushes in front of us in line

Arrogant Worms - Forgive Us We're Canadian lyrics (link)

Uh, this next song was actually inspired by a review that we got when

we played the Edmonton Fringe Festivile. we thought that it was a

rather unique review, we were doing a political caberae and uh, the critic

for the Edmonton journal Complained that we had quote" to much canadian

content" Ok soo uh, we decided to write a song about that and it's called

Forgive us we're canadian.

We always say we're sorry we like to stand in line

and when you ask us how we're doing, we aways say just fine!

Forgive us we're canadian, we try hard to be nice

you too can be canadian if you follow this advice

we disagree on everything but we try to be polite

and we don't belive in violence, except on hockey night

we adopted Europen ways, replacing yards with meters

but we still must ask the question, how many miles in a liter

Forgive us we're canadian, we try hard to be nice

you too can be canadian if you follow this advice

We could take for hours on end about the constatution

Which is dry as toast but sure as heck beats war or reveloution

we don't much like to wave the flag we find patritism shocking

so we celebrate on canada day by going cross boarders shopping

Forgive us we're canadian, we try hard to be nice

you too can be canadian if you follow this advice

We know how to dress for winter, we're not afraid of snow

and we love our country quietly, and hope quebec wont go

Forgive us we're canadian, and some might think it's planned

But there's no where that we'd rather live....

That this vast and frozen land!

The hottest songs from Arrogant Worms

[AngusThermopyle]

The Bible is full of references in both the New and old Testament as to the exact same sexist references you point out in the Koran. That is the point you completely missed and still miss in your above response. No one is denying the Koran has many passages that have been used to condone violence and intolerance of women and non Muslims. But perhaps you need to do some research to understand the Koran is far from unique in that regard and the fact that it says what it does does not make all Muslims evil wife beaters just as it does not mean you have to be a sexist to be a true Christian just because the Bible is full of sexist references.

Actually Rue, I think you missed the point. Dkz made specific reference to the Hijab, this thread is about a muslim father killing his daughter, the claim was made that no religion advocates violence. Given the thread topic, religion of the father, and the reference to the hijab I responded with a point that was pertinent given these factors. Of course many religions advocate violence, we aren't talking about many religions though are we?

In your rush to be correct and accommodating you kinda jumped the gun on that one and ended up stating non relevant facts. As for the research I've done, we wont even go into that, it would be tedious and rather lengthy. All I will say is that I use the information I've gained in order to attempt to form the best non biased opinion I possibly can. I don't give a damn about being PC, facts are facts and no amount of trying to be nice or PC will alter that.

As a final thought I would like to say that I don't bash Islam at the expense of other religions. I find them all to be equally ridiculous.

[Rue]

Actually Rue, I think you missed the point. Dkz made specific reference to the Hijab, this thread is about a muslim father killing his daughter, the claim was made that no religion advocates violence. Given the thread topic, religion of the father, and the reference to the hijab I responded with a point that was pertinent given these factors. Of course many religions advocate violence, we aren't talking about many religions though are we?

In your rush to be correct and accommodating you kinda jumped the gun on that one and ended up stating non relevant facts. As for the research I've done, we wont even go into that, it would be tedious and rather lengthy. All I will say is that I use the information I've gained in order to attempt to form the best non biased opinion I possibly can. I don't give a damn about being PC, facts are facts and no amount of trying to be nice or PC will alter that.

As a final thought I would like to say that I don't bash Islam at the expense of other religions. I find them all to be equally ridiculous.

I again appreciate your comments but mine only came in direct response to other comments as part of an on-going debate as to whether when discussing the role of Islam in this equation it can be used to make generalizations about all Muslims or whether it should be specified in relation to this one incident and if it is to be used in discussion how relevant is it to make comments that make assumptions about all Muslims.

Its a germaine issue as to what role and how religion and in this case Islam is to be referred and used. I did not initiate the actual point as to this portion of the discussion.

As well I do not presume to know what your views are as to any issue unless you tell me what they are.

As for my being PC, you may want to confer with Buffy or Keng on that one. I have never claime dto be PC just a virgin or divine.

[Rue]

Arrogant Worms - Forgive Us We're Canadian lyrics (link)

Uh, this next song was actually inspired by a review that we got when

we played the Edmonton Fringe Festivile. we thought that it was a

rather unique review, we were doing a political caberae and uh, the critic

for the Edmonton journal Complained that we had quote" to much canadian

content" Ok soo uh, we decided to write a song about that and it's called

Forgive us we're canadian.

We always say we're sorry we like to stand in line

and when you ask us how we're doing, we aways say just fine!

Forgive us we're canadian, we try hard to be nice

you too can be canadian if you follow this advice

we disagree on everything but we try to be polite

and we don't belive in violence, except on hockey night

we adopted Europen ways, replacing yards with meters

but we still must ask the question, how many miles in a liter

Forgive us we're canadian, we try hard to be nice

you too can be canadian if you follow this advice

We could take for hours on end about the constatution

Which is dry as toast but sure as heck beats war or reveloution

we don't much like to wave the flag we find patritism shocking

so we celebrate on canada day by going cross boarders shopping

Forgive us we're canadian, we try hard to be nice

you too can be canadian if you follow this advice

We know how to dress for winter, we're not afraid of snow

and we love our country quietly, and hope quebec wont go

Forgive us we're canadian, and some might think it's planned

But there's no where that we'd rather live....

That this vast and frozen land!

The hottest songs from Arrogant Worms

Sorry I forgot to respond at the bottom JBG and say LOL! Put a smile on my face.

Edited January 6, 2008 by Rue

[Community Advocate]

delete quote

Edited January 5, 2008 by Community Advocate

[Community Advocate]

How many here can honestly say that they have not been pushed close to the brink by a family member or loved one, where you have come close to or actually have snapped and lashed out, or have been on the receiving end of being lashed out at?

One right here. I learned that the difference between human reaction and animal reaction is that humans have the kind of brain that can pause for a few seconds, take note of their own state of anxiety, fear, anger, etc., and wait for 10 seconds to make a decision. This is what makes human responses to stress quite different from animal responses to stress.

Although, some humans have not yet learned this strategy and respond like animals would.