Why have the Liberals traditionally been the most successful

[Leafless]

Liberal policies of making everyone "equal" basically screws the people that work hard to support the system and rewards the ones that do little or nothing. Hard-working people eventually get sick of being "equal" and vote for the Conservatives. This ends the Liberal reign.

The Liberals have traditionally been dominated by Quebec making the Liberals in reality a Quebec party.

They have traditionally suckered in the ROC with appealing socialist policies and layered on the icing with the 'Charter of Rights and Freedoms' that basically benefits Quebec and their nationalistic ideologies.

Now the Liberals are confronted with a new type of conservatism, AKA liberalism meaning spend, spend, spend. This of course leaves the Liberals in a bind when confronted with their own type politics.

Where will this take Canadians?

Where else, but down the tube, and this is the route where dysfunctional politics has taken us.

Its time for a new political system preferably without Quebec.

[August1991]

I was just taking a look at Canadian Political History and I am curious on your opinions as to why the Liberals have dominated Canadian Politics opposed to the Conservatives who seem to serve a term or two only to get pushed out by another long run Liberal Governement.

Nate, I suggest you read a good book about Canadian history.

IMV, you'll learn that the key factor in Canadian politics is not ideology; it's regionalism. More specifically, Canada's unique and "wonderful" nature drives Canadian federal politics. There are few countries in the world like Canada: Sri Lanka, Lebanon, Belgium are examples that I know and come to mind.

The Liberals have traditionally been dominated by Quebec making the Liberals in reality a Quebec party.

For once, I think I might agree with Leafless.

1867 to 1921 was definitely dominated by the Conservatives.

20 years of Liberal rule. 34 years of Conservative rule.

Then the tide shifted.

1922 to 1983 was absolutely dominated by the Liberals

50 years of Liberal rule. 12 years of Conservative rule.

True - but I'd choose 1896 not 1922 as the key year.

John A. Macdonald put together a Protestant-Catholic, English-French coalition and created Confederation. Then, unfortunately, he hung Louis Riel (entre autres), and died leaving no one with his skills. The Liberals chose a French Canadian Catholic (Laurier) for their leader.

In 1896, the Liberals formed a majority and they have dominated Canadian federal politics since. (In Laurier's first cabinet, he was the sole Catholic and sole francophone.)

Joe Clark was the first Catholic federal Conservative leader and he was the first who could say two comprehensible words in French. (But to choose the young third-placed Clark in 1976, the Conservative rank-and-file skipped over Claude Wagner and Brian Mulroney - both Catholic Quebecers.)

There are some 75 seats in Quebec and Liberal Pierre Trudeau used to win 74 of them. Mackenzie King, St-Laurent and Pearson almost did as well.

----

Bluth is on to something though. Since Mulroney's election in 1984, things have changed. Ignoring John Abbott (a Protestant unlinigual anglophone from Montreal), Mulroney was the first Conservative leader from Quebec. He was the first Conservative leader who could speak lucid French.

Harper is on the cusp of this change. Harper is Canada's first French-speaking protestant PM. The 10 seats that the Conservatives won in Quebec in 2006 are both the indication and the indicator of a change in federal politics.

Nate, welcome to Federal Canadian politics.

Its time for a new political system preferably without Quebec.

On some days, I agree with you Leafless but I'm also ambivalent. Trudeau said that he didn't get into politics to stop Quebec from leaving Canada but rather to make sure that Canada didn't kick Quebec out. Edited December 7, 2007 by August1991

[mikedavid00]

in general, immigrants are almost exclusively Conservative by nature.

I'd disagree with that.

They are socially conservative due to their very high levels of racism and xenephobia. But those always get second fiddle to what really matters: sponsoring in relatives and recieving state cheques for your children and organizations... like cricket clubs and mosques.

The economy is neither left wing nor right wing. It's based after an economic model. Most of which these people do not fully comprehend from the 3rd world becuase they don't have capitalist based economies like we do in the west.

Thus, they arrive and make irrational descisions like purchasing homes when they cannot even afford a mattress to sleep on. They spend like they do back home: They DON'T spend. They give it all to property and save the rest for big events like weddings and sponsorship. This is how it's done in the 3rd world. That's how it's done in the 3rd world. You don't really 'spend' into an economy and this is how they manage their money.

Third worlders have religion, culture, creed, and race in the heart. Not the good of Canada, our economy or 1st world economic principles. The money they make is used as it is back home. Heck, most immigrants aren't even loyal to their jobs. A common thing I've noticed are immigrants looking for work their VERY FIRST week beginning. Money to them is just is used for political/community donations, family events and unrealistic mortgages. And that's ALL they spend money on.. Why? Becuae that's how it's done back home and that's all they know.

They really do nothing for our economy. Housing market? All they do is make it so young Canadians can no longer afford homes because they are driving up the market value so high.

How is it that a bit over half of 'skilled class' immigrants that arrived in the last 5 years cannot hold solid work, yet the good majority of families are purchasing homes within 3 years.

They come with savings here, they go to community mortgage consultants, and drive up housing prices while collecting social benefits for their kids at home.

This is LOWERS THE QUALITY of life for every Canadian and especially the up coming Canadian who can no longer afford to buy a home and have children.

Why? All because these people, overwhellmingly, vote...

Liberal.

And that's the only reason why they are here, and that's the only reason why they keep winning elections.

[M.Dancer]

Once again MD dons his Kreskin hat to give us a little psychic insight......

Thus, they arrive and make irrational descisions like purchasing homes when they cannot even afford a mattress to sleep on.

Is it an effort in futility to point out the brain numbing illogic in this statement?

Oh why not......

1) Buying a home is a material investment in Canada and a serious commitment I think we can all agree that even you should be committed.

2) If they can only afford a mattress, how did they get the down payment? Must some mattress....probably equal in value to no less that %5 of the purchase price of the home.

3) If they can't afford it, then the irrational decision was made by the person who lent the money.

[mikedavid00]

Once again MD dons his Kreskin hat to give us a little psychic insight......

Is it an effort in futility to point out the brain numbing illogic in this statement?

Oh why not......

1) Buying a home is a material investment in Canada and a serious commitment I think we can all agree that even you should be committed.

2) If they can only afford a mattress, how did they get the down payment? Must some mattress....probably equal in value to no less that %5 of the purchase price of the home.

3) If they can't afford it, then the irrational decision was made by the person who lent the money.

Wow you are so detatched from the immigrant world and their daily lives.

It made news a couple days back from a private study that showed a large number of immigrants purchase homes within 3 years of them arriving.

They afford the downpayment through the life savings they bring with them.

We can all afford things that we can't afford. It's that sort of thing.

We can afford a $2000 purse, but we really can't. Ya know what I mean? It's the same with them moving into these full brick suburb new homes. Sure you can play many tricks to get a mortgage with little down, but they are FAR below the living standards of the 'ideal' people who are to move into those homes and neighbourhoods.

These houses were not built to have the basemsents turned into apartments, nore is it lawful to do so. They do it anyway.

People even sleeping on the carpet in sleeping bags. I"ve seen it first hand. It's how the live back home. Just bare necesseties is all that matters. Family, race, religion, creed, cast is where their heart is; not contributing to Canada.

Edited December 7, 2007 by mikedavid00

[guyser]

MikeD..one question please.

Do you own a home or do you rent?

[M.Dancer]

Wow you are so detatched from the immigrant world and their daily lives.

It made news a couple days back from a private study that showed a large number of immigrants purchase homes within 3 years of them arriving.

They afford the downpayment through the life savings they bring with them.

So you admit now what you were saying then was just nonsence....I agree.

We can all afford things that we can't afford. It's that sort of thing.

Don't tell me.....you used to write speeches for Chretien...a proof is a proof..eh what?

[M.Dancer]

MikeD..one question please.

Do you own a home or do you rent?

I would have asked Ritalin or Librium.....

[Keepitsimple]

Wow you are so detatched from the immigrant world and their daily lives.

It made news a couple days back from a private study that showed a large number of immigrants purchase homes within 3 years of them arriving.

They afford the downpayment through the life savings they bring with them.

We can all afford things that we can't afford. It's that sort of thing.

We can afford a $2000 purse, but we really can't. Ya know what I mean? It's the same with them moving into these full brick suburb new homes. Sure you can play many tricks to get a mortgage with little down, but they are FAR below the living standards of the 'ideal' people who are to move into those homes and neighbourhoods.

These houses were not built to have the basemsents turned into apartments, nore is it lawful to do so. They do it anyway.

People even sleeping on the carpet in sleeping bags. I"ve seen it first hand. It's how the live back home. Just bare necesseties is all that matters. Family, race, religion, creed, cast is where their heart is; not contributing to Canada.

MD.....I would encourage you to think beyond the first generation of "immigrants"......for indeed. a poor grasp of English or French and some customs that are foreign to us can be a bit unsettling. But think past that - think of the second and third generations - people who for the most part were born in Canada and educated in our school system. Sure, they may look just a little bit different than some of us but they are Canadian, speak like us, dress like us, and are looking to raise families and build lives - just like us. That's really what immigration is all about - that's what Canada is all about.

[mikedavid00]

MikeD..one question please.

Do you own a home or do you rent?

own..

i rented many years when i was not financially ready to buy. like what normal people are supposed to do.

[Wild Bill]

MD.....I would encourage you to think beyond the first generation of "immigrants"......for indeed. a poor grasp of English or French and some customs that are foreign to us can be a bit unsettling. But think past that - think of the second and third generations - people who for the most part were born in Canada and educated in our school system. Sure, they may look just a little bit different than some of us but they are Canadian, speak like us, dress like us, and are looking to raise families and build lives - just like us. That's really what immigration is all about - that's what Canada is all about.

Except for those that now they have moved in and are comfortable are now leading the charge to demand we abandon our Queen and British Heritage!

[guyser]

own..

i rented many years when i was not financially ready to buy. like what normal people are supposed to do.

Why did you buys a house? Probably to invest your money and see it grow over time.

You probably like the fact that you have gained equity in your house. So why harp on those that are creating the environment that creates some wealth for you?

[mikedavid00]

Why did you buys a house? Probably to invest your money and see it grow over time.

You probably like the fact that you have gained equity in your house. So why harp on those that are creating the environment that creates some wealth for you?

To be honest I bought a house becuase I was FORCED to. The immigration was so out of control that I would not have been able to buy the same home if i waited till now. I plan on having kids soon and a dog and trying to live the 'Canadian' dream. The little of what's left.

I'm not buying a house so all my extended relatives can stay over and it's not meant to be an immigration house.

(the old home owners were a Palistinian family with 10 children... and two wives it seems). Everyone in the house was collecting cheques.

The houses are NOT meant to be lived in like this. The neighbourhood is not meant for people like this. Not one person worked in that house. I don't care if there was a degree up on the wall from the US. No one was working.

[guyser]

To be honest I bought a house becuase I was FORCED to. The immigration was so out of control that I would not have been able to buy the same home if i waited till now. I plan on having kids soon and a dog and trying to live the 'Canadian' dream. The little of what's left.

No one forced you to buy a house. You bought a house because like everyone else that is buying you saw the prudent nature of the investment. You did not buy because of immigrants, since they apply pressure in small doses. If they buy in your neighbourhood it is because they have the cash and economics does not include where the money is coming from.Plain and simple.

(the old home owners were a Palistinian family with 10 children... and two wives it seems). Everyone in the house was collecting cheques.

I am sure they were, paycheques, baby bonus cheques (are they still sent?) tax rebate cheques.....

The houses are NOT meant to be lived in like this. The neighbourhood is not meant for people like this. Not one person worked in that house. I don't care if there was a degree up on the wall from the US. No one was working.

I would imagine that you dont have any first hand knowledge of that. But I agree that it suits your purpose.

[M.Dancer]

Amongst the many thing that MikeDavid blames on immigration....it is the Canadians...no wait..world wide rise in real estate values.........

......too funny

[Canadian Blue]

Is there any problem that can't be blamed on immigrants?

[guyser]

Is there any problem that can't be blamed on immigrants?

..hmm....Toronto Maple Leafs record ?

[Canadian Blue]

Perhaps the Zamboni driver is an immigrant, who knows. It seems that Mikedavid has always been blaming immigrants for all of the worlds problems.

[M.Dancer]

Nik Antropov 27 6-6 230 L Ust-Kamenogorsk, USSR

Johnny Pohl 28 6-1 196 R Rochester, Minnesota

Mats Sundin 36 6-5 231 R Bromma, Sweden

Bates Battaglia 31 6-2 205 L Chicago, Illinois

Tomas Kaberle 29 6-1 198 L Rakovnik, Czechoslovakia

Pavel Kubina 30 6-4 244 R Celadna, Czechoslovakia

Alexei Ponikarovsky 27 6-4 220 L Kiev, USSR

Jason Blake 34 5-10 180 L Moorhead, Minnesota

Hal Gill 32 6-7 250 L Concord, Massachusetts

Andy Wozniewski 27 6-4 220 L Buffalo Grove, Illinois

Vesa Toskala 30 5-10 190 L Tampere, Finland

Seasonal, Migrant workers.......

[guyser]

Nik Antropov 27 6-6 230 L Ust-Kamenogorsk, USSR

Johnny Pohl 28 6-1 196 R Rochester, Minnesota

Mats Sundin 36 6-5 231 R Bromma, Sweden

Bates Battaglia 31 6-2 205 L Chicago, Illinois

Tomas Kaberle 29 6-1 198 L Rakovnik, Czechoslovakia

Pavel Kubina 30 6-4 244 R Celadna, Czechoslovakia

Alexei Ponikarovsky 27 6-4 220 L Kiev, USSR

Jason Blake 34 5-10 180 L Moorhead, Minnesota

Hal Gill 32 6-7 250 L Concord, Massachusetts

Andy Wozniewski 27 6-4 220 L Buffalo Grove, Illinois

Vesa Toskala 30 5-10 190 L Tampere, Finland

Seasonal, Migrant workers.......

Are you able to show how much a drain they are on the economy? They must have families that are sucking us dry .

[mikedavid00]

Amongst the many thing that MikeDavid blames on immigration....it is the Canadians...no wait..world wide rise in real estate values.........

......too funny

That is false.

The world doesn't set local real estate values. Supply and demand does.

[mikedavid00]

Is there any problem that can't be blamed on immigrants?

No there isn't.

[M.Dancer]

Are you able to show how much a drain they are on the economy? They must have families that are sucking us dry .

I thought we were talking about the Leafs record....everyone knows their economy is great.....

[M.Dancer]

That is false.

The world doesn't set local real estate values. Supply and demand does.

Oh the the demand across canada is because of immigrants.....even in places that have neglible immigrants?

[Canadian Blue]

By the way if anyone is interested their is another topic where Mikedavid talks about how the police, firefighters, social workers, and military, are all stealing our tax dollars.

Promise not to laugh when he states that Toronto Police Service should have their budget cut by 50% to help fight gang violence, or his belief that Canada should get rid of its Air Force.

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