Canada blocks Commonwealth climate-change deal

[jdobbin]

And your solution? How about the Liberal solution...other than referring to the buried and dead Kyoto.

While the 90+% of those responsiible for the global problems aren't involved in the solution,Canada is to be a major player with their minor role in the problem?Let's get the big boys taking care of the issues first.Their commitment will immediately cover anything we could do on the short term and have greater effect in the long term.Again I ask,what's your and the Liberal party's solution that would get actual immediate solutions to climate change?

I have stated what I believe would begin curbing emission immediately: thermal heating and cooling done on a major scale, solar heating being built as part of most major developments, immediate investments in new technology to new buildings to reduce their energy needs, hard caps on auto emissions, an east-west power grid, continued supports to wind power, investments in public transit, investment in nuclear power plants and stronger protections for boreal forests.

[noahbody]

It is the right wing's lack of belief in emissions that is behind the reluctance to do anything at all.

I don't know how this is a right or left wing issue. Right brained or left-brained definitely.

[jdobbin]

I don't know how this is a right or left wing issue. Right brained or left-brained definitely.

Let's just say that it is more likely that the right wing is going to believe that emissions are not a worry.

[Canuck E Stan]

I have stated what I believe would begin curbing emission immediately: thermal heating and cooling done on a major scale, solar heating being built as part of most major developments, immediate investments in new technology to new buildings to reduce their energy needs, hard caps on auto emissions, an east-west power grid, continued supports to wind power, investments in public transit, investment in nuclear power plants and stronger protections for boreal forests.

And your immediately....is how long before it's implemented and actually doing something.So Canada covers it's 2%, what about the other 98% caused be the big three? Well, and the Liberal solution......I know,...Kyoto...the dog.

[jdobbin]

And your immediately....is how long before it's implemented and actually doing something.So Canada covers it's 2%, what about the other 98% caused be the big three? Well, and the Liberal solution......I know,...Kyoto...the dog.

Some of those items could implemented as policy within 100 days of a change of government.

The Tory solution is to get the whole world involved and not to do much before that happens. It is a delay tactic.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Tory solution is to get the whole world involved and not to do much before that happens. It is a delay tactic.

Hmmmmm...sounds like an honest version of exactly what the Liberals did.

Edited November 25, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[noahbody]

Let's just say that it is more likely that the right wing is going to believe that emissions are not a worry.

I suppose if there's more analytical people on the right that's true. The left does attract the emotional types. But framing it right or left just makes it easy for partisan people to pick a side.

This is worth watching if you haven't seen it yet. It's pt 1 of 4 of a bob carter lecture.

[Argus]

Yet Steve will come back from this conference and pat himself on the back, telling Canadians we are cutting edge, world leaders on the climate change issue. He does this all the time whilst wiling away precious time that we should actually be doing something positive and meaningful.

You mean like the thirteen years the Liberals wiled away doing nothing - after they signed Kyoto?

[Argus]

Dion comments on Harper's climate deal.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

I think Harper is hoping no one will notice that "aspirational" means "in your dreams."

Given that Dion opposed doing anything about climate change when he was in the cabinet, and that when he became environment minister he did nothing, does he really have any credibility on this issue except to the slavish Liberal supporters like you?

[Argus]

It is the right wing's lack of belief in emissions that is behind the reluctance to do anything at all.

There seems little doubt the world is in a warming trend. The problem, from a scientific standpoint, is that it has had warming trends many times in the past. It was far warmer in the middle ages than it is now, and I rather doubt that was due to fossil fuel emissions. There seems to be a consensus that emissions are "contributing" to the warming, but no consensus on how much. Nor is this consensus really based on hard physical science. The issue has become politicized because, by and large, the right operates on the basis of facts, while the left operates out of emotion. Few of those who are in favour of immediate, expensive actions to combat climate change actually know anything at all about it other than perhaps having seen Al Gore's video, or a few shrill media releases by environmental lobbyists.

[Argus]

I have stated what I believe would begin curbing emission immediately: thermal heating and cooling done on a major scale, solar heating being built as part of most major developments, immediate investments in new technology to new buildings to reduce their energy needs, hard caps on auto emissions, an east-west power grid, continued supports to wind power, investments in public transit, investment in nuclear power plants and stronger protections for boreal forests.

None of which is Liberal policy. Liberal policy, so far as I can see, is a kind of mushy, weepy "We must save the world!!!" kind of thing, without details or costing.

[jdobbin]

Given that Dion opposed doing anything about climate change when he was in the cabinet, and that when he became environment minister he did nothing, does he really have any credibility on this issue except to the slavish Liberal supporters like you?

The Liberal record on Kyoto was pathetic. However, Harper has been a emissions skeptic if not outright denier. His commitment to doing anything on the environment was limited to a single line in his party platform in the last election. It has only been a minority government that has put the pressure on Harper to actually have an environment policy. The goal of some Tory supporters is to get a majority and to withdraw from all federal activity in the environment.

[jdobbin]

There seems little doubt the world is in a warming trend. The problem, from a scientific standpoint, is that it has had warming trends many times in the past. It was far warmer in the middle ages than it is now, and I rather doubt that was due to fossil fuel emissions. There seems to be a consensus that emissions are "contributing" to the warming, but no consensus on how much. Nor is this consensus really based on hard physical science. The issue has become politicized because, by and large, the right operates on the basis of facts, while the left operates out of emotion. Few of those who are in favour of immediate, expensive actions to combat climate change actually know anything at all about it other than perhaps having seen Al Gore's video, or a few shrill media releases by environmental lobbyists.

This is one of several tactics of the right wing: cast doubt on the science and say the best policy is to do nothing.

[Argus]

The Liberal record on Kyoto was pathetic. However, Harper has been a emissions skeptic if not outright denier. His commitment to doing anything on the environment was limited to a single line in his party platform in the last election. It has only been a minority government that has put the pressure on Harper to actually have an environment policy. The goal of some Tory supporters is to get a majority and to withdraw from all federal activity in the environment.

I am not disputing that Harper has been less than enthusiastic about Kyoto. Nor has he changed.

What I am saying is that Dion's newfound enthusiasm for Kyoto smacks of the kind of hypocrisy which makes me despise Liberals. He fought AGAINST Kyoto when Jane Stewart wanted to do something about it fearing damage to the economy. Then he became environment minister himself and no one paid the slightest attention to Kyoto. Now that the Tories are in power, however, he's Mr. Green, with a dog named Kyoto and shrilly demanding action - action he never took himself when he had the opportunity. This amazing conversion has come without a single explanation as to why he previously opposed Kyoto. Instead the Liberals like to gloss over that and pretend their party, and particularly Dion, was always in favour of strong action on the environment - even while never bothering to take any.

I don't question the NDPs honesty on Kyoto and the environment. They've never cared much for common sense or economics anyway, so embracing Kyoto is exactly the kind of thing they would do.

Dion, however, is just political weaseling. I don't think he believes in Kyoto. I'm not even sure he believes in climate change at all. He's just being a hypocritical, dishonest weasel.

[Argus]

This is one of several tactics of the right wing: cast doubt on the science and say the best policy is to do nothing.

I doubt you actually know anything about the science.

[jdobbin]

None of which is Liberal policy. Liberal policy, so far as I can see, is a kind of mushy, weepy "We must save the world!!!" kind of thing, without details or costing.

And the Tory policy is "I'm alright, Jack."

Some of the things I mentioned did have a Liberal policy for them and became government policy. The wind farms across the country receive federal assistance courtesy of the Liberal environment minister. The efficient building policy was initiated at the federal level by the Liberals. The Liberals also protected large swaths of Crown boreal forests and had begun negotiations to preserve more.

The let down in Liberal policy was the lack of a hard cap on emissions and even further investment in new technologies.

[jdobbin]

I doubt you actually know anything about the science.

I know that the "scientists" that the right wing often point to as being experts don't actually do research in the field or have been long retired and are just getting speaking engagements like my old professor Tim Ball.

[trex]

Kyoto is not dead, it's only sleeping. And with a new player in the game we may see its beneficial impact. Doing something is better than doing completely nothing. And Harper's mouthpiece is now saying on the radio how wonderful it is to have achieved an agreement from the recent conference. An agreement to disagree...

Australia's new PM Rudd acts swiftly on climate

Nov 25

BRISBANE (Reuters) - Australia's new prime minister, Kevin Rudd, made climate change his top priority on Sunday, seeking advice on ratifying the Kyoto pact and telling Indonesia he will go to December's UN climate summit in Bali.

Rudd, 50, presented himself to voters as a new-generation leader by promising to pull troops out of Iraq and ratify the Kyoto Protocol capping greenhouse gas emissions, further isolating Washington on both issues.

Rudd, a Mandarin-speaking former diplomat, said he discussed Kyoto ratification with his British counterpart Gordon Brown, as well as Indonesia's President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. "President Yudhoyono formally invited me to attend the Bali conference, which will of course deal with climate change and where we go to now on Kyoto. I responded positively," he said.

Rudd, a staunch Christian, attended church on Sunday and planned talks with officials and advisers about administrative arrangements for ratification of Kyoto as soon as possible.

Rudd also pledged unity at home and an end to controversial offshore detention of illegal immigrants.

[Argus]

I know that the "scientists" that the right wing often point to as being experts don't actually do research in the field or have been long retired and are just getting speaking engagements like my old professor Tim Ball.

That is not an answer. Or maybe it is one.

As I said before, the left reacts and responds to emotion, not terribly interested in verifying facts. That is why so many of them are so hysterical about climate change, even while never having bothered to acquaint themselves with any of the science involved.

[jdobbin]

I am not disputing that Harper has been less than enthusiastic about Kyoto. Nor has he changed.

Or on anything to do with the environment for that matter. It is only the pressure of a minority government that anything is said or done on it.

If Dion was a complete failure on Kyoto, it is surprising how many policies that the Tories have adopted after previously cancelling them when they first got into government.

[jdobbin]

That is not an answer. Or maybe it is one.

As I said before, the left reacts and responds to emotion, not terribly interested in verifying facts. That is why so many of them are so hysterical about climate change, even while never having bothered to acquaint themselves with any of the science involved.

If the right would get actual scientists with published and academically repeatable results, I'd pay attention. Instead, we have the same people behind the "smoking is harmless" science from years ago trying to drive home their point. They used to call the medical professionals who kept linking smoking to illness "hysterical."

[Argus]

If the right would get actual scientists with published and academically repeatable results, I'd pay attention.

You mean to prove a negative? How about you get some actual scientific evidence on how much affect emissions are having on global warming? Good luck. There isn't any.

[Argus]

Or on anything to do with the environment for that matter. It is only the pressure of a minority government that anything is said or done on it.

If Dion was a complete failure on Kyoto, it is surprising how many policies that the Tories have adopted after previously cancelling them when they first got into government.

Nice sneakweaselling away from the central part of my post. Why did Dion oppose action on Kyoto? Why did he do nothing when environment minister? Why has his miraculous transformation never been explained? More to the point, senior Liberals have all-but admitted they never had any intention of abiding by Kyoto. If they were simply posturing then why would we not believe they're simply posturing again?

[jdobbin]

You mean to prove a negative? How about you get some actual scientific evidence on how much affect emissions are having on global warming? Good luck. There isn't any.

And the right wing wants to make sure that there isn't any by taking a position on the subject in advance.

Some Tory supporters are going to remain emissions deniers even when a majority of scientists build a mountain of evidence on the subject.

[jdobbin]

Nice sneakweaselling away from the central part of my post. Why did Dion oppose action on Kyoto? Why did he do nothing when environment minister? Why has his miraculous transformation never been explained? More to the point, senior Liberals have all-but admitted they never had any intention of abiding by Kyoto. If they were simply posturing then why would we not believe they're simply posturing again?

Dion defended his turf in cabinet. It is not an uncommon practice.

He has been on the other side of issues several times in his life. He was once a PQ supporter but eventually became the man who was behind the Clarity Act, something that Harper supported.

When he was brought back into cabinet as Environment minister, he went to Alberta to tell them he wanted to bring economic sense to the emissions policy. He has been criticized by many for taking that stance but in the end, the Green Party leader called him a very good Environment minister. For his part, it was a conversion. Just as he went from being a PQ supporter to being a federalist, Dion threw himself into the cause.

Harper should be aware about conversions. He was once a Liberal who became a PC who became a Reformer who became an Alliance who became a Conservative.

I believe Dion's policies were too timid in the end and having seen what Arnold Schwarzenegger has done in such a short time, I believe this is what Dion should have done. California's economy hasn't shattered and it is having a transforming effect on technology and policies in regards to emissions.

Edited November 25, 2007 by jdobbin