TASER- A SAFE FORM OF POLICE INTERVENTION?

[Sam Steele]

With the recent deaths related to Taser use, the question arises...Is the Taser a safe alternative use of force for Canadian Police Officers?

Post mortem analysis has show in several cases that Taser deaths can be related to what is now called "Excited Delirium" which is an elevated state of arousal that when coupled with a Taser blast can cause death. This is particularly the case in psychotic individuals or those under the effects of drugs.

Obviously, only a very small percentage of people who experience the effects of a Taser die. Taser training regularly includes administering the Taser to those who are intended to wield it. Is this a safe practice? Should the taser be an acceptable form of intervention for today's peace officers?

A Taser can have very appreciatable results in the 99%+ that do not suffer fatal effects. No injuries, no lasting effects. Contrast that with black eyes, broken bones and again the risk of death.

Is the Taser safe?

Edited November 16, 2007 by Sam Steele

[sideshow]

Answer? Yes. Very safe. When people are in a state of excited delirium they can die just as easy from being wrestled to the floor as by being tasered. Sometimes the just "spaz" themselves and then die on their own. Usually stimulants like cocaine or speed are related to these incidents. As well, it can take 6 police officers to wrestle down a 140 lb kid when they are in a state of excited delirium. They are extremely strong, feel no pain or fear, and can be highly unpredictable.

I would take a few accidental (on the part of the Police, in most cases these are avoidable by the suspect...ie. dont take drugs) deaths of drug induced people then a few deaths of Police.

[Leafless]

A Taser can have very appreciatable results in the 99%+ that do not suffer fatal effects. No injuries, no lasting effects. Contrast that with black eyes, broken bones and again the risk of death.

Is the Taser safe?

The company that makes the weapon says it is safe:

"Cardiac arrest caused by electrical current is immediate,"

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/n...12-8fe695f6757e

I have also seen video productions of individuals self administrating taser shocks, even to ultra sensitive parts of the anatomy even the testicles, albeit with a great amount of pain and squirming in pain on the floor but with no long lasting effects.

[capricorn]

I have also seen video productions of individuals self administrating taser shocks, even to ultra sensitive parts of the anatomy even the testicles, albeit with a great amount of pain and squirming in pain on the floor but with no long lasting effects.

I suppose they had never heard of a personal massager? You'll find them in the Sears catalogue and cheaper too.

[jennie]

I suppose they had never heard of a personal massager? You'll find them in the Sears catalogue and cheaper too.

Hi folks!

I just heard on TV that there are researchers who have been trying to tell police that tasers can kill. They put a person's heart into irregular beating that can deteriorate into something fibrillation (fast heartbeat) causing death.

One Six Nations youth was tasered 4 times by the OPP last April, as he tried to help his grandmother. He pulled out two taser points and threw them back at the cops. The third one took him to his knees and then they hit him with the fourth: 50,000 volts each, 200,000 volts.

I think the cops are a little taser happy. I would like to see them lose their right to use them because they are abusing the privilege by using them when not needed, and by using them excessively.

I think the airline has some responsibility for the incident with the Polish man, because they sent his mother home and did not help him find her at all.

Edited November 16, 2007 by jennie

[geoffrey]

One Six Nations youth was tasered 4 times by the OPP last April, as he tried to help his grandmother. He pulled out two taser points and threw them back at the cops. The third one took him to his knees and then they hit him with the fourth: 50,000 volts each, 200,000 volts.

Well, maybe the Six Nation's punk shouldn't have resisted the police.

And voltage isn't cummulative.

[jennie]

Well, maybe the Six Nation's punk shouldn't have resisted the police.

And voltage isn't cummulative.

He didn't they weren't even near him. He was helping his grandmother.

OK no prob. Where would you like your four consecutive tasers?

I see you are still a violent a$$hole.

[M.Dancer]

He didn't they weren't even near him. He was helping his grandmother.

OK no prob. Where would you like your four consecutive tasers?

I see you are still a violent a$$hole.

If he wasn't near them then he wasn't tasered. The taser is a close order weapon. Any closer and you pepper spray then nightstick.

Edited November 17, 2007 by M.Dancer

[DrGreenthumb]

Sadly this kind of thing is to be expected and things will only continue to deteriorate for the people as Harper implements his Police State. I cannot even sing our national anthem anymore, there is something hollow and fake about it when the true north doesn't feel so free anymore. Facsists who support this kind of police state brutality obviously learned nothing from history and the lessons taught to us by the nazi's and the gestapo who also considered themselves strong law and order types. When we let irrational fear motivate us to give up our rights and freedoms and allow our supposed "protectors" to kill with impunity we cannot and should not delude ourselves or our children to believe we live in a "free" country.

These cops deserve at the very least to be charged with manslaughter. Even if the intent was not to kill the man, their actions caused his death. Thank god for video, maybe it will wake some people up before they allow Harper to remove what little protection the individual has from the state. Keep those cameras rolling folks, the life you save from being murdered may be your own.

[M.Dancer]

Sadly this kind of thing is to be expected and things will only continue to deteriorate for the people as Harper implements his Police State. I cannot even sing our national anthem anymore, there is something hollow and fake about it when the true north doesn't feel so free anymore. Facsists who support this kind of police state brutality obviously learned nothing from history and the lessons taught to us by the nazi's and the gestapo who also considered themselves strong law and order types. When we let irrational fear motivate us to give up our rights and freedoms and allow our supposed "protectors" to kill with impunity we cannot and should not delude ourselves or our children to believe we live in a "free" country.

These cops deserve at the very least to be charged with manslaughter. Even if the intent was not to kill the man, their actions caused his death. Thank god for video, maybe it will wake some people up before they allow Harper to remove what little protection the individual has from the state. Keep those cameras rolling folks, the life you save from being murdered may be your own.

*yawn*

wake me up when the adolescent rage passes.....and grown ups rejoin the debate.

Police state...fascists...gestapo..nazis....

Amazingly I was naive enough to think this forum was free of this kind of sophomoronic content.

[capricorn]

Sadly this kind of thing is to be expected and things will only continue to deteriorate for the people as Harper implements his Police State.

I suppose if you’re replying to a post on tasers, your comments relate to the use of tasers. For your information the use of the taser was introduced by the Liberal government in 2000, without any public consultation. So who created as you call it, this police state?

http://www.cameronward.com/tasers/

I cannot even sing our national anthem anymore, there is something hollow and fake about it when the true north doesn't feel so free anymore.

Fine, this is a free country and that is your right.

Facsists who support this kind of police state brutality obviously learned nothing from history and the lessons taught to us by the nazi's and the gestapo who also considered themselves strong law and order types. When we let irrational fear motivate us to give up our rights and freedoms and allow our supposed "protectors" to kill with impunity we cannot and should not delude ourselves or our children to believe we live in a "free" country.

Great stuff for a soap box or a speaker’s corner. In which country, I'm not sure.

These cops deserve at the very least to be charged with manslaughter. Even if the intent was not to kill the man, their actions caused his death.

Where is your proof that their actions caused his death? Did you perform an autopsy on this poor soul? Or is this simply your knee jerk reaction to the latest media story you cared to read. You probably don't know that there are at least 3 separate investigations underway. Let’s wait for the findings. I’m certain some positive recommendations will result, maybe as far as to eliminate the use of tasers. Who knows?

Thank god for video, maybe it will wake some people up before they allow Harper to remove what little protection the individual has from the state. Keep those cameras rolling folks, the life you save from being murdered may be your own.

So. You advocate an increase of surveillance of the civilian population. Is this not a tactic fascists have and would use? I thought leftists and commies were against the state spying on their citizens. Now here you are pontificating that big brother should increase its surveillance of citizens. By your own words, you sound like a closet fascist.

[no queenslave]

I suppose if you’re replying to a post on tasers, your comments relate to the use of tasers. For your information the use of the taser was introduced by the Liberal government in 2000, without any public consultation. So who created as you call it, this police state?

http://www.cameronward.com/tasers/

Fine, this is a free country and that is your right.

Great stuff for a soap box or a speaker’s corner. In which country, I'm not sure.

Where is your proof that their actions caused his death? Did you perform an autopsy on this poor soul? Or is this simply your knee jerk reaction to the latest media story you cared to read. You probably don't know that there are at least 3 separate investigations underway. Let’s wait for the findings. I’m certain some positive recommendations will result, maybe as far as to eliminate the use of tasers. Who knows?

So. You advocate an increase of surveillance of the civilian population. Is this not a tactic fascists have and would use? I thought leftists and commies were against the state spying on their citizens. Now here you are pontificating that big brother should increase its surveillance of citizens. By your own words, you sound like a closet fascist.

tasers are designed to be a deadly weapon; if they weren't they would not be a need for wires so you could continue to keep shocking the subject. They can be designed as charged capacitors and no wires, so you could tell how many times the subject was hit. Time for a class action lawsuit against the manufactures ,and users who killed people by their use.

[Riverwind]

tasers are designed to be a deadly weapon; if they weren't they would not be a need for wires so you could continue to keep shocking the subject.

The wires allow police to use the guns without moving within striking distance of any weapon the person might have.

[no queenslave]

The wires allow police to use the guns without moving within striking distance of any weapon the person might have.

The only reason for the wires is to allow the continuing of multiple hits of electricity, without the public knowing how many times the subject was shocked. It is a deadly weapon as designed.

[Riverwind]

The only reason for the wires is to allow the continuing of multiple hits of electricity, without the public knowing how many times the subject was shocked. It is a deadly weapon as designed.

The tasers are sold as non-leathal devices intended to disable without causing long term harm. Claiming that they are intended to kill is a simply a fantasy that you have created. I know you won't be able to provide any credible links to support that claim.

[no queenslave]

The tasers are sold as non-leathal devices intended to disable without causing long term harm. Claiming that they are intended to kill is a simply a fantasy that you have created. I know you won't be able to provide any credible links to support that claim.

Only if used as a one or 2 jolt system; give me one manufacture that said you could continue to shock the subject till your battery discharges. In order to be a safe unit their has to be a means of insuring some dumb cop wont continue to shock the person till he dies.

[geoffrey]

You need a new cartridge to discharge the weapon again.

[DrGreenthumb]

Capricorn I'm not sre where you get the idea I advocate spying BY the state. What I advocate is the people using their own cameras to spy ON the state. That's right, keep those cameras rolling people. Everybody should have a digital camera on them at all times, preferably one that can capture sound and video. They are quite cheap now. You can get them small enough to fit on your keychain. It makes it a lot harder for the cops to lie when they never know who may have caught them on tape.

Also capricorn, I don't need a medical degree to know that the actions of those cops killed that man. The cops will investigate and clear themselves of any wrong doing I'm sure. They will drag out the investigation until people forget , until the shock of the brutality wears off and other tragedies capture the public's attention. This is not the first time cops have killed people with tasers, and sadly it will not be the last. They usually blame the deaths on drugs or something but before the tazering the person was obviously lively enough that the cops felt they needed the help of a mild electrocution to take them down.

That's right it wasn't the tazer that killed him it was the "*"

*-insert drug of choice here.

[Pliny]

*yawn*

wake me up when the adolescent rage passes.....and grown ups rejoin the debate.

Police state...fascists...gestapo..nazis....

Amazingly I was naive enough to think this forum was free of this kind of sophomoronic content.

Ve haf our vays!

[Pliny]

You need a new cartridge to discharge the weapon again.

Haven't you heard of the new hybrids? They can be switched over to oil if necessary.

[capricorn]

Capricorn I'm not sre where you get the idea I advocate spying BY the state. What I advocate is the people using their own cameras to spy ON the state. That's right, keep those cameras rolling people.

As if law enforcement personnel don't have enough on their hands trying to keep the public safe now some members of the public who want to "catch" them doing something. I thought it was the other way around, it is the cops that are supposed to "catch" those breaking the law.

Thankfully, the NDP has never formed a government in Canada. Otherwise, I can visualize the creation of an agency whose sole mandate would be to roam the streets, camera in hand, to videotape law enforcement personnel at work.

The taser was brought in to reduce the use of firearms by police officers under pressure from the left. Now the left is screaming that the taser is too dangerous. What exactly will satisfy these people?

Also capricorn, I don't need a medical degree to know that the actions of those cops killed that man.

There will be an autopsy, a coroner's inquest and investigations. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it. If changes are to be made regarding the use of the taser then let's do it. There are far too many people who have suddenly become experts in all aspects of the use of tasers.

[shavluk]

No they are just experts in humanity with non lying eye's.

A net! $5 whole dollars and this man would be alive.

Taser bears and Dart gun men please.

It goes way , way beyond this issue and only being debated now because and by a fight for justice by the camera man.

Yes there are groups of us all ready now in place to carry camera's around catching not only police but other groups at certain things as it has already been documented and rightly so as it will be safer for all of us while some one polices the police.

yes please and thank you.

[Oleg Bach]

No they are just experts in humanity with non lying eye's.

A net! $5 whole dollars and this man would be alive.

Taser bears and Dart gun men please.

It goes way , way beyond this issue and only being debated now because and by a fight for justice by the camera man.

Yes there are groups of us all ready now in place to carry camera's around catching not only police but other groups at certain things as it has already been documented and rightly so as it will be safer for all of us while some one polices the police.

yes please and thank you.

For it to become even remotely common practice to electricute people for what ever reason is not acceptable..save the cattle prods for the cattle. My position is that law enforcement is decaying - and I would hate to see some of the vets that have tasted blood in Afghanistan come back and operate domestically as corporate enforcers..that is the trend it appears - Blackwater may not be far behind...it's nice to have elected law givers and enforcers - Tazering sounds a little too private ..like some nut figured out some better less scandalous ways of population suppression other than a Glock pistol...that's real messy - seems those who want more tazering are would like to shoot everyone if they could - and have settled for a less embarrassing way of exerting their personal agendas....it's much to Orwellian to be swallowed whole as social benevolence.