Rue Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Everything comes do to this point. What procedure were these officers told they must follow? Were they told that using a taser is no different from attempting to put someone in a headlock? Or were they told that tasers are a 'last resort'? The difference between the two situations is the difference between some cops who made a hasty but legimate decision and some cops who grossly abused their power.I have heard a lot of people make conflicting claims about police procedure, however, it will take an inquiry to determine what prodcedure these particular officers where told to us and whether they followed it. I think yous ummarized it well R. I was suprised though when the police psychologist stated on t.v. he felt the police did not follow standard protocol. You know I do not know the exact protocol only heard tid bits from what that psychologist said on t.v. about it being a last resort and only to be used if the police officer is in direct line of comrpomise, or the subject is hurting himself or others. According to that police psychologist, they were trained to do other stuff before they use the taser. That said, we do not know what protocol they have been given. For all I know, the RCMP within airports may have been told a diff. thing given the 9-11 stuff making anything in airports more volatile. I mean I concede River it could be that. If the RCMP had a protocol telling them to use it right away, then the issue is not whether they used it but whether something else should be used. So you are dead on and we will have to wait to see what the protocol was. No one wants police unecessarily dying but no one wants poor shmuks like this guy having to die the way he did. It is inexcusable this poor guy was trapped like he was. I am sorry but even someone speaking perfect Ebglish has gotten frustrated and wigged out when travelling. It can happen to any of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carinthia Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Man gets tasered in the U.S. for disputing a speeding ticket. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/1...utube.taser.cnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Every one is entitled to their opinion, but why would you assume he doesn't belong in Canada? And at what what point does the requirement to be able to speak English, French or Canadian attach? Well firstly he wasn' be sponsored by an employer so IMO that automatically excludes him. Also, there is an English test that you need to pass to be able to immigrate. Yes, it is very cheatable, exploitable, and basically worthless, but he should have the ability to speak English or he can not function properly in our society. Also, he has mental issues which is obvious. We've all had to wait 10,11,12 hours in life. Many at the airport wait that long on postponed flights. THere is NO excuse for the actions he took. Ultimately, If I had to chose I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have Eastern Eurpeans here in Canada than the other world trash that makes the majority of our modern immigrants. I'm sad the accident happen, but I do beleive that he did not belong in Canada and should not have been granted any kind of immigration. This is a sovereign country with borders and laws. It is not an international right to come to Canada. We have been conditioned to think this. But it's no ones God given right to come here. He should not have been let in and he was most likely a liability as a citizen in our country. This whole thing could have been avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 The guy had a criminal record and spent 5 years in jail for robbery. I don't agree with Mike on many issues but I don't think we should accept immigrants with criminal records. WOW I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. THE MEDIA MUST HAVE BURIED THAT REAL, REAL DEEP CONSIDERING THAT I LISTEN TO NEWS ALL DAY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 THE MEDIA MUST HAVE BURIED THAT REAL, REAL DEEP CONSIDERING THAT I LISTEN TO NEWS ALL DAY.Often reading newspapers will provide more information than the TV or Radio: http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...cf-696cdf63d75eMinorczyk said Dziekanski had his own drinking problems and had a troubled past, which included a five-year jail sentence for robbery when he was a teenager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Often reading newspapers will provide more information than the TV or Radio: http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...cf-696cdf63d75e I already tried a google search and couldn't find anything even with the keywords 5 year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Also, there is an English test that you need to pass to be able to immigrate. Yes, it is very cheatable, exploitable, and basically worthless, but he should have the ability to speak English or he can not function properly in our society. Really? Care to show us where it says that ? mikey, face it, when it comes to immigration you have repeatedly been not just wrong, but so far off base it isnt funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedavid00 Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Really? Care to show us where it says that ? http://www.canadaimmigrationvisa.com/ia19122003.htm "If provided proof for language proficiency is not found to be satisfactory by the visa officer, the visa officer may ask the applicant to take the IELTS exam" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 http://www.canadaimmigrationvisa.com/ia19122003.htm"If provided proof for language proficiency is not found to be satisfactory by the visa officer, the visa officer may ask the applicant to take the IELTS exam" So, you just proved to yourself that in fact you were wrong, Good job mikeyD! Proficiency in English/French is in fact not needed. You may now go and edit your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carinthia Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 The fact that the man broke the law back when he was a teenager, or the fact that he was allowed to immigrate to Canada while unable to speak the language, is irrelevant to the issue of this guy being tasered and killed. What about the tourists who don't speak English and will be flying in to YVR in droves when the Olympics start? Character assassination of this man proves nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 The fact that the man broke the law back when he was a teenager, or the fact that he was allowed to immigrate to Canada while unable to speak the language, is irrelevant to the issue of this guy being tasered and killed. What about the tourists who don't speak English and will be flying in to YVR in droves when the Olympics start? Character assassination of this man proves nothing. It doesn't prove anything but neither does the on going character assassination of the police officers involved and the police in general. It does point out that perhaps he was not the saint he was built up to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 (edited) It doesn't prove anything but neither does the on going character assassination of the police officers involved and the police in general. It does point out that perhaps he was not the saint he was built up to be.The fact that the guy may have had an alcohol problem is relevant. Heavy drinkers go into withdrawal after about 12 hours. This makes them extremely agitated and puts them at risk of a seizure and death. This could have been the real cause of death or at least a significant contributing factor. The coroner could quickly rule this out as a possibility but it sounds like they only checked to see if he was drunk at the time. Edited November 22, 2007 by Riverwind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no queenslave Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 it is pathetic to see the supporters of a police state justify the killing of a man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 it is pathetic to see the supporters of a police state justify the killing of a man.It is pathetic to see people who are unable to comprehend the difference between an accident death and a killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no queenslave Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 It is pathetic to see people who are unable to comprehend the difference between an accident death and a killing. What is the accident; his tazer went off by itself? Or was it an accident he put his knee on his neck while he was incapacitated ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 What is the accident; his tazer went off by itself? Or was it an accident he put his knee on his neck while he was incapacitated ?The police did nothing that was intended to cause death therefore the death was an accident. The only question is whether there was negligence involved and, if so, who was negligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no queenslave Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 The police did nothing that was intended to cause death therefore the death was an accident. The only question is whether there was negligence involved and, if so, who was negligent. And why was the 14 year old charged with manslaughter after he ran his car off the road and killed his 2 passengers?Did he intend to kill them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Well firstly he wasn' be sponsored by an employer so IMO that automatically excludes him. Really? I thought you had family reunification provisions (though I am beginning to think those are bad ideas). Also, there is an English test that you need to pass to be able to immigrate. Yes, it is very cheatable, exploitable, and basically worthless, but he should have the ability to speak English or he can not function properly in our society.Does French or Canadian count, or only English?Also, he has mental issues which is obvious.Maybe there should be a psychological qualifier, but is there?We've all had to wait 10,11,12 hours in life. Many at the airport wait that long on postponed flights. THere is NO excuse for the actions he took.To me that alone would justify the tasering. The safety of the public trumps the well-being of a deranged man.Ultimately, If I had to chose I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have Eastern Eurpeans here in Canada than the other world trash that makes the majority of our modern immigrants.I'm sad the accident happen, but I do beleive that he did not belong in Canada and should not have been granted any kind of immigration.This is a sovereign country with borders and laws. It is not an international right to come to Canada. We have been conditioned to think this. But it's no ones God given right to come here. He should not have been let in and he was most likely a liability as a citizen in our country. Agreed. A society has a right to see that those who come can or want to fit in. We don't need people demanding that society change for their benefit. This is a Judeo-Christian society. There are Muslims and Hindus who want to get away from the lunacy of their respective societies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 (edited) And why was the 14 year old charged with manslaughter after he ran his car off the road and killed his 2 passengers? Did he intend to kill them?Because he did not have a driver's license. Drivers are not charged if people die and there is no evidence of gross negligence (i.e. drugs/alcohol, excessive speed, driving without a license etc). Using a taser is not gross negligence in itself because they are not lethal weapons. Edited November 22, 2007 by Riverwind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 (edited) s Edited March 19, 2008 by sideshow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 The fact that the guy may have had an alcohol problem is relevant. Heavy drinkers go into withdrawal after about 12 hours. This makes them extremely agitated and puts them at risk of a seizure and death. This could have been the real cause of death or at least a significant contributing factor. The coroner could quickly rule this out as a possibility but it sounds like they only checked to see if he was drunk at the time. I think there were a lot of contributing factors, not the least of which the guy had just taken a train ride from Poland to Frankfurt, then a 10 hour flight to Vancouver and spent 10 hrs in an airport where he didn't know and couldn't communicate with anyone. At this point it also doesn't sound like the airport did much of anything to help him out. Almost anyone would be dog tired, disoriented and having trouble thinking in a rational manner after all that. A short fuse could be understandable. The outrage has spawned investigations and public inquiries galore over this thing, perhaps it's time to call off the lynch mob, back off and let the facts come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carinthia Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 The fact that the guy may have had an alcohol problem is relevant. Heavy drinkers go into withdrawal after about 12 hours. This makes them extremely agitated and puts them at risk of a seizure and death. This could have been the real cause of death or at least a significant contributing factor. The coroner could quickly rule this out as a possibility but it sounds like they only checked to see if he was drunk at the time. If these tasers have the capacity to kill people who have had a few drinks, now or 2 days ago, then they damn well shouldn't be using them at all. What about people with heart and other medical conditions? It seems to me that a lot of variables have not even been considered prior to their dishing them out to a bunch of untrained cowboys. They're handing down possible death sentences for misdemeaner offences. I can't imagine losing a loved one who may have had a few drinks, looked at a cop sidways and was killed for it. Another one killed in Halifax today while being transferred from the courthouse to the jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 (edited) s Edited March 19, 2008 by sideshow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carinthia Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Moral of the story? Don't commit crimes, don't cause public disturbances. Very true, very true, but I like to live in a society where I know that the punishment at least fits the crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgly Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 A 45 year old prison inmate in Nova Scotia has just been reportedly tasered to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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