Palestinians Demand Western Wall Back - Shows They Don't Want Peac

[Rue]

JB Globe you were harsh but it had to be said and I am glad you said it and not me.

Look can we not discuss this issue without smeering Muslims or anyone else as people!?

Here is what it comes down to. The West Bank is by law no one's at this point legally. It is in a state of suspended animation.

From a practical perspective the West Bank will probably end up a second Palestinian state.

What the final borders are must come about by people remaining calm and refraining from ethnic pandering and smeering.

I can assure you there are dedicated people in the Jordanian and Israeli governments as well as in one wing of Fatah that are trying their hardest.

Many things are said in negotiations. They do not necessarily mean their literal comments.

There is always context to what is said and underlying reasons that also must be considered.

Palestinians and Israelis need to be able to live in peace. Surely they can find a way if we just refrain from the name calling and stay calm and focused and above demonization of the people on either side of the equation.

[sharkman]

Nice try. You know exactly what I'm saying, you're just playing dumb so you don't actually have to debate me on it:

My point is - who are you to criticize others for making "ridiculous" statements/demands, or, as you have before, criticize folks like the Iranian Prez, for making racist comments, when you yourself have make such comments on a routine basis?

Uh, your 'logic' and reasoning are indeed hard to follow, the above is the first statement on the page that tells what you were tallking about, and you're off. Try playing something other than the tired old race card, eh?

[JB Globe]

Try playing something other than the tired old race card, eh?

See, I thought JBG was a grown adult, I was unaware he needed a crew of cronies to help defend him from his own statements.

But since you can resist chiming in on this one, here's something for you . . .

By this comment, it would appear you see nothing racist in JBG's statements, including the one I quoted before where he explicitly said that ALL Muslims are inherently violent.

If that's the case, than I suppose you would agree the following statement is not racist: "All Jews are conspirators in a plot to take over the world"

If you think the above statement is racist, than why? And why is such a similar, grand-sweeping negative generalization of the entirety of Islam NOT racist?

For the record, I find both statements indicative of a serious amount of racism and ignorance on the part of the person who agrees with them.

[jbg]

By this comment, it would appear you see nothing racist in JBG's statements, including the one I quoted before where he explicitly said that ALL Muslims are inherently violent.

If that's the case, than I suppose you would agree the following statement is not racist: "All Jews are conspirators in a plot to take over the world"

Why not stop misrepresenting. What I have said explicitly is that the so-called peaceful Muslims bear responsibility by not marginalizing and where necessary killing their rogues. People such as the Jewish fanatics that attacked the Al Aksa Mospque, and/or assassinated Rabin are either dead or serving long prison terms. Muslim lands such as Yemen and Pakistan let their wrongdoers "escape", i.e. the attackers of the USS Cole (Yemen) or the beheaders of Daniel Pearl (Pakistan). If responsible members of Muslims society fail to stop the madness, all Muslims will indeed take their lumps.

Never did I say that all Muslims were violent though. I don't believe that most are. Just, if anything, too passive.

[JB Globe]

Why not stop misrepresenting.

I'm misrepresenting your remarks? Really? What did you REALLY mean by this if not that Muslims are inherently violence . . .

I guess people are afraid of the Muslims and their propensity to sickening violence.

Let me know, because, to non-bigoted folks, it sounds like you're saying Muslims are inherently more violent than other folks because they're Muslim.

What I have said explicitly is that the so-called peaceful Muslims bear responsibility by not marginalizing and where necessary killing their rogues.

Perhaps, but in some cases it's clearly beyond the control of the local population. In a failed state where power rules, the individual citizen doesn't bear as much responsibility for these things as the individual does in a functioning democracy.

Also I again would argue that we in the West are in no position to preach from a moral high ground considering the amount of rogues we've supported in the past and still to this day. They just happen to be terrorist governments, and not terrorist organizations.

People such as the Jewish fanatics that attacked the Al Aksa Mospque, and/or assassinated Rabin are either dead or serving long prison terms.

Of course, not a soul was ever really penalized for their involvement in say, the massacres in the refugee camps of Beruit in Israel's 1982 invasion. Officers that were never supposed to serve in the army again because of their culpability in the massacre were given time off and soon after appointed such prestigious positions as Israeli military attache in Washington. Sharon himself resigned as Defence Minister . . . And became Trade Minister immediately . . . Then Defence Minister for another government.

Ooooooh - such punishments! Like Thomas Friedman said - Israel, like all other nations in the region, have one set of actions they show to the world to show how just they are and garner political support, and they have another set of actions they use to show to the rest of their neighbours in the Mid-East how tough they are and why you should mess with them.

Muslim lands such as Yemen and Pakistan let their wrongdoers "escape",

Yemen has jailed countless members of Al Qaeda, and has dealt a blow to that organization. So clearly they've learned how to handle them since the USS Cole incident - which I should point out, didn't prompt the US into great action against Al-Qaeda either. It took 9/11 to do that.

As for Pakistan, we both know the situation there is a little more complicated than "letting the wrongdoers escape" the difference is that you're mischaracterizing things to fit your agenda of "Islam is the enemy" And thus the situation in Pakistan exists because "Muslims don't want to go after their bad guys" rather than "going after the bad guys with the gov't in its current state might topple it and lead to civil war, and the bad guys could come out on top"

If responsible members of Muslims society fail to stop the madness, all Muslims will indeed take their lumps.

Okay, but answer me this then - do ordinary Americans (or Christians, if I was reducing many nations down to a single religion) need to take responsibility for Pinochet? Saddam? The Shah? Mubarek? After all, their nation supported them.

Or is this another case of you applying more vigorous standards of morality and ethics to Muslims than you do Americans

Never did I say that all Muslims were violent though. I don't believe that most are. Just, if anything, too passive.

Really? Well let me quote you again -

I guess people are afraid of the Muslims and their propensity to sickening violence.

[jbg]

Really? Well let me quote you again -

This is the total quote that your link jumps to:

Why not stop misrepresenting. What I have said explicitly is that the so-called peaceful Muslims bear responsibility by not marginalizing and where necessary killing their rogues. People such as the Jewish fanatics that attacked the Al Aksa Mospque, and/or assassinated Rabin are either dead or serving long prison terms. Muslim lands such as Yemen and Pakistan let their wrongdoers "escape", i.e. the attackers of the USS Cole (Yemen) or the beheaders of Daniel Pearl (Pakistan). If responsible members of Muslims society fail to stop the madness, all Muslims will indeed take their lumps.

Never did I say that all Muslims were violent though. I don't believe that most are. Just, if anything, too passive.

And as far as the rest of your post I know of no Israelis that participated in the 1982 Shatila and Sabra massacre. Those were massacres by the Christian Phalange against Muslims. First, again, Israelis did not participate. And as importantly, are you saying that there haven't been more extensive massacres going the other way?

[sharkman]

See, I thought JBG was a grown adult, I was unaware he needed a crew of cronies to help defend him from his own statements.

But since you can resist chiming in on this one, here's something for you . . .

By this comment, it would appear you see nothing racist in JBG's statements, including the one I quoted before where he explicitly said that ALL Muslims are inherently violent.

If that's the case, than I suppose you would agree the following statement is not racist: "All Jews are conspirators in a plot to take over the world"

If you think the above statement is racist, than why? And why is such a similar, grand-sweeping negative generalization of the entirety of Islam NOT racist?

For the record, I find both statements indicative of a serious amount of racism and ignorance on the part of the person who agrees with them.

You weren't typing the first line with a straight face, were you? Because you seem to have no issue when someone cheers your post(Rue), but the one post I made regarding jbg becomes a 'crew of cronies'.

I have been reading jbg's comments for much longer than you, and he is no racist. You must understand that any leftwinger around here uses that charge whenever anyone dares criticize Muslims or Islam. But of course you do.

[buffycat]

This is the total quote that your link jumps to:

And as far as the rest of your post I know of no Israelis that participated in the 1982 Shatila and Sabra massacre. Those were massacres by the Christian Phalange against Muslims. First, again, Israelis did not participate. And as importantly, are you saying that there haven't been more extensive massacres going the other way?

Oh come on jbg - Ariel Sharon was directly responsible for the massacre at the Sabra and Shatilla camps. As far as I know he is still considered an Israeli.

http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jun02herman.html

[jbg]

You weren't typing the first line with a straight face, were you? Because you seem to have no issue when someone cheers your post(Rue), but the one post I made regarding jbg becomes a 'crew of cronies'.

I have been reading jbg's comments for much longer than you, and he is no racist. You must understand that any leftwinger around here uses that charge whenever anyone dares criticize Muslims or Islam. But of course you do.

Thank you.

I particularly appreciate the support from you since I am a leftwinger and you are not.

[jbg]

Oh come on jbg - Ariel Sharon was directly responsible for the massacre at the Sabra and Shatilla camps. As far as I know he is still considered an Israeli.

http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jun02herman.html

He did not kill any Arabs there.

[jbg]

Oh come on jbg - Ariel Sharon was directly responsible for the massacre at the Sabra and Shatilla camps. As far as I know he is still considered an Israeli.

http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/jun02herman.html

I got about one paragraph into that ridiculous diatribe. "Authorities" like that detract from the credibility that the Left should have.