err

It seems that you have a problem discerning between 'the unfortunate' and freeloaders, addicts and 'lazy bums who know how to work the system'. I am definitely of a 'leftist persuasion', and even I do not think that welfare should be 'free' across the board. Even Karl Marx had his 'caveat', "From each according to his ability", yet you seem to think that even this is too much to ask. Actually, I do differentiate between the two, and I, like I'm sure you do, would like to see the "lazy bums" removed from the system. Therein lies the problem.... the method of separating those who need due to impairments, and those who are too lazy.I'm all ears for the ideal sorting machine. However, going on the assumption that such a flawless and impartial mechanism does not exist, I suggest that it would be ridiculous to cut the system for everybody to get rid of the few... which is what Mike Harris did.... I would suggest that the government could save more money and deliver better support to those who are truly needy by investing more money into operating and monitoring the system.... But unlike Renegade, I support the system for those who truly need it. And until the ideal sorting mechanism exists, I have little choice but to support a few percentage points worth of freeloaders.

Again, this is consistent with what I have stated, you want to force group benefits on everyone, regardless of whether they want it or not, or value it or not. Furthermore, you advocate forcing everyone in the group to pay for these benefits regardless of if they want it or not. I would say your mentalitiy would fit communisim quite well. It is our SOCIETY that imposes the benefits and associated costs (not just me). If you don't want to be a member of our society, then piss off... we won't miss you or your type.... Based on how much you yelp and complain about the "pain" that you suffer from having to contribute to our society, I could just imagine if someone stepped on your big toe..... Question answered? Really? where? The only thing which has been stated is that if I am against taxpayer-funded welfare, then I must be one of the "uncaring cheap bastards". Resorting to name calling is not an answer and is not an argument based either upon logic or fact. Just calling a spade a spade. It would appear to be fact... You are against the fundamentals of our society... (the fundamentals that determine that our society looks after its downtrodden).... yet I bet you'd be to scared to move outside of our secure country (for example, to the USA) where you don't have the safety net... sort of like one of those chihuahuas that bark up a storm, but are really gutless when it comes to acting on their bark.....

I have already answered this before. I'm not going to waste my time and answer it again. because he doesn't want to admit that there's a great big hole in his argument... I understand that you are happy paying taxes to save people's lives, just don't presume what others want to do with THEIR taxes. Maybe I should rephrase the above quotation. I am happy to live in a society that cares for its own kind, and as a group, help the less fortunate in their society. It is obvious that there will always be uncaring cheap bastards like yourself who would never help anyone.... and when they needed help would yelp louder than anyone... That is why, as a group, the rules are laid out.... as a member of the group, and a potential recipient of its benefits, you have to contribute. Otherwise, you might find it easier to move to a country full of uncaring, cheap, miserable people like yourself rather than trying to make everyone in our country turn into what you appear to be.... I think the question has been answered, even if you didn't want to listen. Our society wants to help the unfortunate..... It appears that you are a mis-fit if you do not share this feeling.

The obligation and responsibility of people is to provide for themselves. They also have an obligation to provide a contingency for when they incur a financial setback. They fact that they can turn to the government for assistance is incentive for them not to provide any contingency funds of their own. Why do you presume it is a governmental responsibility to provide a guaranteed standard of living? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Renegade: Do you have enough money to pay for a pacemaker we previously talked about in this forum, and the life-saving operation required to insert it (assuming you lived in the United States, and we did not have the safety net we do in Canada). If not, according to your logic, then you should deserve to die, should you require one of these devices and have not the means to pay for the said products and services. While it may be a good way to silence your incessant griping about the downtrodden stealing our money (as did Mike Harris), I am happy that my taxes are able to save peoples' lives.... whether that be by paying for heart operations, or by helping to keep the downtrodden fed and off the streets. I am happy to be part of the solution for many of these people, rather than do as you recommend, and delegate that responsibility to "other people" like the church, or their relatives.... You obviously don't have any room for empathy in your heart, or the capability to be charitable.... I pity you....

There was a complete page on their web site prior to the last election... I suppose people have a right to change slightly over the years.... It is still a "pro" response.... At least he do an about face three times in one election campaign as did Harper on abortion last time just to "get votes"...

Government slugs ??? Your description tells us something about you. You'd call them "slugs" just because they had a good job....

In my view it falls to these in priority order: 1. Citizens themselves 2. Their friends and families 3. Charities I also only view the obligation as a moral one and only to be enforced by the consciences of the groups above. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mockingbird: It would appear that Renegade's opinion is that it's the governments responsibility to ensure that corporate Canada has a reasonable standard of living.... The government should provide for business... who said the government should serve the people ???

In the interest of all the posters I did e-mail Jack Layton shortly after Err's comment on OCtaber 1st,requesting the NDP position on Legalizing Marijuana. I've yet to receive an answer. I did get a response from Jack Layton just to put your minds at rest:

Canadian Government web page on climate change International Panel on Climate Change Website. There are poeple (like you) who choose not to believe the evidence, and some of them still think the world is flat....

Did the idea of claiming that scientists don't agree just pop into your head, or did your dog tell you this.... If you can provide any kind of credible evidence (ie. not funded by Exxon, Chevron, BP, or Haliburton) I'm all ears....Or is this a "conservative truth", that you have to be a Conservative to understand why it's true ????

... actually, they're scared that it will be the second coming of Harris with the anti-gay, anti-abortion twist. The pro-conservative posters in this forum certainly seem to fit this bill.... so one can only assume that that's the kind of thing the party stands for.... I note that you didn't mention abortion... that they were going to ban... no...the public wasn't going for that... That the party wasn't going to ban, but they wouldn't stop a private members' bill.... no the public still isn't going for it... That they weren't going to ban... What should we say to get elected ???? Ha Ha Ha... funny guy... What were the liberals and NDP responsible for... driving the Conservatives into being rednecks ??? And this next part busts my gut: "The largely left-wing media...." I didn't know the Toronto Star was that popular that it could sway the opinion of the whole province....

Have you ever heard of the modern "fiction" called global warming. Many in this forum would say that it's fiction and disagree with the overwhelming majority of scientists in the world. However, most people haven't read much about the predictions and real consequences of global warming. The whole planet is not going to get warmer... On average yes, but places like England and Ireland will become ice communities.... That is due to a predicted change in the Gulf Stream.... It's funny (or maybe not) how people won't believe many things until it hits them in the head.....

The oil companies are saying... "If they get cold, the'll find a way to pay for it..." Come on August, the USA has just plundered more than 10% of the world's oil for Haliburton, Exxon, and Chevron.... more than the 2 million barrels per day that Saddam used to sell them... So... there's going to be an oil shortage in the future, so we better put up the price of oil... Do you imagine for one moment that the oil companies care about conservation... even a little bit....<{POST_SNAPBACK}> My understanding err is that Iraq is exporting virtually no oil and this explains in part why the world price of crude is stuck around $65 (the market had anticipated Iraqi crude on line by now). I note that the world crude price did not change much with the Gulf hurricanes. It was the prices of refined products that went up.I didn't know that Saddam sold oil to Exxon and Chevron, I thought he did deals with Total-Fina-Elf-Aquitaine, but I would assume whoever the purchaser, he sold the oil at the world price. Plundering was never an option. Saddam "sold" 2 million barrels of oil per day to US oil companies as part of the "oil for food" program. Wow, August, that's great news... where do I go to sign up......On a more serious note, supposing that in the New York film, I had to have graphic sex with Angelina Jolie... over and over for weeks on end... This might seem like a win-win situation to some. However, I have to consider my responsibilities. I would suspect that my wife wouldn't be too crazy about the venture, and that it could end up tearing the family apart.... hurting my wife and children. If my wife were to say "Go for it, I want the cash..." she would be doing similarly to what Ralph Klein is doing... not caring what it does to the rest of the family.... If I were to take what's best for my whole family into consideration, maybe I'd be better off in the long run back at my computer.... rather than being totally selfish... That heats houses so the people in them don't freeze... Like Saudi Arabia... where the country is rich, but most of the people are extremely poor.....

Not even half that. Sorry... 1.7 billion... Islamic Population A few hundred? Osama bin Laden attracted recruits from all across the middle east, to the extent he had something like 10,000 men in his camps in Afghanistan, which made him a major supporter of the Taliban. Now think of how hard it is for someone in say, Egypt or Libya or even Yemen or Iran, who is dirt poor, to get to Afghanistan. Think of how many more followers he would have had if he'd been easier to reach. Then think of the polls of attitudes in Muslim countries which showed that many millions strongly sympathise with him and think he is a hero. And every year those radical madrassas schools in the Muslim world turn out tens of thousands more fanatics, the modern day equivilent to the ignorant wild-eyed monks who roamed Europe in the dark ages. If you did the math, or were capable of doing it, you'd see that 10,000 is not that many when you compare it to the total population. Supposing we give you the benefit of the doubt that there are only 1 billion Muslims. Then that would mean that 1 in 100 thousand Muslims is a "radical Muslim". Going back to B. Max's theory that all men are potential rapists, you might find that statistics will show that more than 1 in 100 thousand men is a rapist... So therefore, it is more likely that you are a rapist than the Muslim down the street is a "radical Muslim"...

Blaming the market for making life miserable is like shooting the messenger for bearing bad news. Hurricanes cause destruction and force refineries and platforms to shut down. The market is reflecting this bad news. Blaming the weather only is rather naive..... did you hear that on Fox news ???? The oil companies are saying... "If they get cold, the'll find a way to pay for it..." Come on August, the USA has just plundered more than 10% of the world's oil for Haliburton, Exxon, and Chevron.... more than the 2 million barrels per day that Saddam used to sell them... So... there's going to be an oil shortage in the future, so we better put up the price of oil... Do you imagine for one moment that the oil companies care about conservation... even a little bit.... But in Alberta, it still costs exactly the same as it did last year to pump oil out of the ground, but now they can charge an extra fortune for it... great if you've got lots of stocks in oil... rather the converse if not... Why doesn't the government implement a highly "progressive" tax on oil company profits for the "gouge factor" and use that to drop taxes for the average Canadian....

There must be some reasons not to privatize, or they would have already, wouldn't they have... One could possibly give some credibility to this guy if he had appeared to weigh up two sides and conclude that one was better than the other... However, his dismissing the possibility of another argment tends to take from his credibility... PS. If you look hard enough, you can find a study that says Montgomery Burns is smart, or that Al Queda was based in Iraq at the time of 9/11. The loss of good jobs ???? ... lets see... lost 950 good jobs, and gained 2900 shitty jobs... Is that better.... ??? Maybe if everybody had shitty jobs, they'd all be happier.... is that the way it goes... Really Montgomery... why don't you give it a rest.... Just because the employees make $17/hour... your jealousy paints quite the picture of you...

Hiel B. Max, and the Fourth Reich.... Should we build concentration camps too......

There are nearly 2 Billion people of Islamic faith on the planet. Because a few hundred of them, lurking in shadows here and there, declare war on "the west", do you think that means that "all Muslims" want to attack "the West"?? Should they all be punished for the actions of a few ??? And a point of order... Islam (and Islamic) are spelled with a capital "I". And then you obviously subscribe to the theory that "all men are potential rapists".... (I guess you didn't understand the references to the armbands....)Out of curiosity... who's included in the group you refer to as "they", and what were the "threats" that "they" should be expelled from Canada for ????

How about sending some of that money for health care and education.. the things that got cut to make that surplus...... Instead of sending a cheque to "The Wealthy Banker's Wife"....

Are all Islamic people terrorists ?? (from reading your text, one would assume so) There are people with dangerous ideas of every race... look at your ideas (above).. Maybe we should make them paint a star on the doors of their houses... and make them wear arm-bands.... Maybe even build work camps for them... I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Canada is at war with nobody at the moment.

An interesting note... last federal election, several environmental groups rated the NDP's platform as being greener than the greens....

A smoker can go through 20-40 cigarettes per day - someone who smokes more than one joint day is likely an addict who will need rehab long before lung cancer becomes a concern.In addition, marijuana can be used in other forms (like hash oil) which do not have the same cancer causing effects. Maybe pure tobacco doesn't have as many carcinogens as hemp, but when you douse it in licorice, saltpeter, and about 150 other chemicals, then coat it in plastic so it stays fresh, I would bet that what comes in a cigarette is more dangerous to your health than mountain grown marijuana..... I would challenge the contention that hemp has more carcinogens... (A "Marketplace" special several years ago stated that the average cigarette's tobacco has about 200 chemicals added.)

Sir John A had them beat for corruption... And how about Brian Mulroney with the airbus.... And the Liberals are following Conservative ideologies and cutting taxes... for corp. Canada... but not for you and me. Tax cuts are always for corp. Canada... and not for you and me....One reason that our taxes have not dropped, is that we have to pay for the tax cuts that corp Canada is getting and has gotten from the last how many years of fiscal Conservative governments. And corp Canada already pays 4% lower taxes than the USA, and an aweful lot lower tax rates than most middle income earners. Why should our federal government give corp Canada further tax breaks... and none to lower and middle income Canadians ????

Your verbal excrement comes with no backing. The supposition that the NDP party doesn't support classes other than minorities and "those who don't work for a living" is rather ignorant.... I guess all those unionized workers who the NDP supports don't work... or are they all immigrants ??? In an earlier post, you stated that the NDP supported the underdog, and that there was nothing wrong with supporting the underdog. I would suggest that the majority of Canadians are the underdogs... Our recent governments have favoured corp Canada and the investor classes, and taken from the middle and lower income brackets to finance tax cuts etc.... I would suggest that the underdog realize what's happining, wake up, and do something about the situation. My senses tell me that you, Argus, are in this class of citizens (the middle one) who hasn't yet realized that he is being hoodwinked.

I'll have to admit, that I find your viewpoints a little hard to take. I don't think I've done anything to demonize you that you haven't done very effectively yourself... And you don't think a lot of people would see you as an ignorant red-neck ??? So it counts as HATE when we disagree with your viewpoints, but you don't demonstrate any hate or redneck attitude when you talk about black lesbians, albinos... homosexuals and disabled aboriginals... transexuals, and immigrants... as people our government should not support ....