Scotty

It was nanny state, to a degree, but in the better interests of society as a whole. Lacking laws, too many people would fall prey to economic foolishness. It's unfortunate, but a fact of human nature. This is why we have laws against usury, because some people will feel forced to take loans even if the repayment rate is 1,000% interest. Not everyone is smart. Not everyone is economically capable. A society tries to look out for its weaker members.

Whose money was it? Walkers?

Debt is part of a free market economy. It's how people afford houses, and other large cost items, for one thing, and how business operates. I am 'in debt' for my mortgage and car payments. And it's a debt which is easily affordable. Nothing wrong with that.

Would you care to explain this theory in relation to how people lived during Dickens' time? Wasn't that a free market economy with minimal or no intervention from government? It seems to me that your view that this would lead to 'the most amount of people' living well did not play out very well.

Clinton had a surplus, and on an ongoing basis that surplus would have paid back the debt. Then Bush came in and brought in a massive tax cut - while not cutting spending, actually while increasing spending. The current mess in the United States is the result.

That's an interesting fantasy but it doesn't seem to have much in common with the real world. Companies are not in competition to pay ever higher salaries. Quite the reverse. That's why so many jobs have been offloaded to Mexico or China. Are you going to suggest the workers in those places are better than the workers in north America? I put it to you they're not better, they're simply cheaper.

Right, so they all charge a fortune, and they don't lose customers. What part of that do you think is complicated?

For thirteen years? Gee, I wonder if I could simply not pay my bills because I "don't have the money". I wonder if the courts would look kindly on that. So for the last thirteen odd years New Jersey has negotiated contracts and then not paid into the pension funds. And somehow, they're to be excused because they 'didn't have the money'. I'm sure you have some cites to back that up, right? Because in the cite I listed it stated the New Jersey Teachers had contributed some $7 billion to their pension fund, which sounds like rather more than nothing. If this was only five percent then you're saying New Jersey owes its teachers pension fund ALONE some $96 billion? And how much do the employees of large corporations usually pay for medical benefits? For example, Toyota, a large organization without unions, also gives free medical coverage to its workers in return for ZERO payments from those workers. I believe Google does the same.

And if the employer offers, say, a computer programmer $10hr and no benefits he could just say no, right? But in your nirvana world for business, the business owner could simply contract the work to India, or bring in guest workers who will live in a shipping crate and do the job for virtually nothing. So when every business you go to can do that how much is your masters in computer engineering worth? $10 hr.

Cite?

He also balanced the budget, which is more than any Republican has been able to do. Clinton was more of a fiscal conservative than Bush.

Evidence? Any at all?

According to the article the attraction to the Conservatives is over their conservative social views, not their 'middle of the road' views, and of course, their newly discovered love of immigration.

I didn't say Conservative, I said conservative. People sometimes confuse the two but they're not necessarily synonymous. We know where the majority of immigrants are coming from. We know what the cultural value systems are in those lands. I think everyone realizes how conservative the Muslim world is, but a lot don't seem to realize how very conservative Hindus and Sikhs are, as well. East Asians aren't as bad, depending on what area you come from, but their cultures are all more conservative than ours on social issues. Africans are also very conservative, btw. Homosexuality is still illegal in many African countries, abortion is illegal in almost all of them, and womens rights, well... there aren't a lot.

Not to be rude or anything but I don't think you understand what a conspiracy is. Saying that big business loves immigrants because they work cheap does not in any way, shape, or form even imply a 'conspiracy'. Saying the Liberals and Tories suck up to ethnic groups doesn't imply a conspiracy either. What isn't? I don't even know what you're trying to say. I said times were different, that today, unlike in times past, people are not cut off from their homelands, because they have satellite TV, telephones, internet and quick travel back and forth on jets. You said "people have been saying that since before Canada was born".

Just chalk it up to God's will. Isn't that what you people do? Say a few hallelujahs and move on.

They do? Let's hear an opinion that says the kid is not a vegetable and might survive.

Yes, the national inquirer of the Republican set.

The baby is in a vegetative state. There's no THERE there. I don't mean to be cold, but why should we spend tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars when its, in effect, already dead?

Just curious here but... why was South Africa and Rhodesia our business?

You really want to go back to the New Jersey argument? The first time I showed a cite where you were mistaken you stopped talking about it. In fact, with regard to New Jersey and its public sector pensions, the big issue is that the employees have been making their contributions for years while the New Jersey government failed to do so. It not only didn't pay ANYTHING into the pension plan but it was using the contributions from the employees to pay pensioners! So after paying essentially NOTHING for their public employee pensions you're going to tell me they had to increase taxes ten years in a row because of employee pensions and benefits?!

You know, I keep hearing this and I just don't buy it. Western meddling? For what? Well, because they're CRAZY over there, and oil is the lifeblood of our economies. Not to mention we need it to heat our freaking houses! Is the "west" meddling with Canada or Norway or the UK? Nope. Because those are stable nations whose management of their oil supplies is intelligent and capable. The West, by which you mean the US and UK, I suppose, meddles only where they are already unstable and, oh, did I mention CRAZY and likely to either blow up the oil fields or refuse to sell oil to the west or some other threatening thing. I don't find that 'meddling' to be a shock. In fact, I'd be shocked if they weren't doing their best to ensure oil supplies remain stable. BTW, how much western meddling has there been in Yemen, which has no oil? Doing well, are they?

I'm not even sure how to deal with this kind of ... argument? Your point seems to be that it's too expensive to have children so Canadians should stop doing so and simply bring over immigrants. I don't think that's an argument that I need to even address. In fact, it's not an argument I CAN address without violating terms of use for this site. It's an argument which cries out for mockery and ridicule and I don't want to lower myself to that. Actually, reading over your postings, I don't think you're a person I can even have a mature or intelligent discussion with so I won't bother.

uhm, no, a conspiracy theory requires people conspire. That is not what I said. Proof? Of what? That many immigrants are extremely conservative or that their numbers are increasing? I would have thought both are self evident facts. We had satellite TV and easy jet travel back and forth to the old country in the eighteenth century? Who knew!? Why on earth did those immigrants take such long and troublesome voyages on those old sailing ships!?

So Ontario power utilities overcharged people, and the courts ordered them to stop charging illegal interest rates on unpaid bills, so the government in the person of the Ontario Energy Board then gives them permission to raise rates in order to pay for the cost of the legal fees and fines! I swear, if people vote for McGuinty again they deserve whatever they get.