Scotty

No, Jack, they were called racists because a lot of them said some pretty racist things. Maybe you're thinking of the Republican Party? :-P

Most. How many negatives are in a 'most'? If I said to you, "Smallc, I have this lovely, economical car called a Ford Pinto. Don't worry, most of them don't blow up" would have you any doubts about buying one?

The point is people will take jobs if it is in their interest to do so. One of our problems is people don't see taking crappy, low paying jobs as necessarily being to their immediate advantage compared to welfare or pogey. We need more intelligent social welfare systems which encourage non-productive people to get back into the workforce by either allowing them to continue to collect welfare for a while and gradually reducing it, or cutting back on their social welfare payments if they won't work. They are trying both methods in parts of Europe. The UK is trying both at the same time, in fact. Still something is not as quantifiable as the billions of dollars bringing in all these immigrants costs the treasury every year.

Well, I would say it is pretty undeniable that if immigrants looked, talked and acted just like us then there'd be nothing to differentiate them. However, my concern is not how they look, talk or cut their hair, but their job skills and their cultural behaviour patterns and resistance to integration.

Really? Which industries. You know, it's hard to remember it, but it was only a few years back that the US had such a booming economy it couldn't find workers in a lot of service industry jobs, especially in hotels and restaurants. I remember some fast food restaurants were paying $20hr for counter staff. They managed to stay open, somehow. The point is that they do virtually nothing to reverse an aging population as their average age is only a few years younger. As for the new points system, you have an awful lot of faith in a system which hasn't even been fully laid out yet, much less implemented.

When I came to my current city, I didn't choose to join, but I have to pay taxes regardless. Why can't the city just collect taxes off people who use specific services, like schools, etc? I don't use the schools so I shouldn't need to pay for them, right? I choose to forego police and fire protection. That's okay, right? So I don't have to pay for them. I will take my own garbage out of the city in my truck. So I shouldn't have to pay garbage taxes, right? Of course, there is, in reality, no way of opting out of any city services. You take them whether you need them, or think you need them or not. The city provides services to all who live in the area, and you benefit from the existence of those services, even if you don't personally use them. In the same way, a person who works at a company benefits from the union, regardless of what he thinks of them. And just as city services couldn't function properly if taxpayers could 'opt out' so to would the union not function if half the people could opt out - while still benefiting from the union's existence and work.

But silly.

As do I. I was automatically made a member of the union when I joined my current employer a dozen years ago. I worked diligently and proactively at my work and became one of the best workers in the building. My being a member of the union had no affect on that, one way or another. I became a shop steward after witnessing some good people getting screwed over by a mindless, bureaucratic system which just didn't care a damn about what was right or wrong, and which didn't even follow its own policies, never mind common fairness. As an example, there is a fellow who worked for the employer for almost thirty years, in progressively more responsible positions, and then, due to a sudden serious illness (Parkinsons) was no longer able to work at quite his own pace. Now to me, I'd say, let him ride, give him a break, he's not that far from retirement anyway, and he's been a loyal employee for decades. All his boss could see, though, was he wasn't working up to full pace, and so he began to harass him about that and every little thing he did, basically trying to force him out. You think that's the kind of thing where maybe it'd be helpful to have the union to assist the guy? This is blather, Jack, nonsense. It's the equivalent of those people who fear corporate hit squads are out there ready to murder anyone who threatens the profits of multinationals.

That's an old theory but it doesn't allow for a lot of variance. Maybe more profits mean investing your money overseas. Maybe more profits mean just paying yourself, as owner, more money, buying a bigger house. Maybe more profits mean you buy another business, merge it with yours, and fire a bunch of employees. There is absolutely no guarantee that more profits = more jobs.

If that was meant to be some sort of intelligent rebuttal it failed rather badly.

Sure it is. If it weren't for immigration defeating it. .There are NO jobs Canadians won't fill if you pay enough. What you mean is we bring in labour to do unpleasant jobs really cheaply because Canadians won't do them really cheaply. How is this any different from outsourcing jobs to third world countries? There is no evidence immigration will help at all with aging as immigrants are almost the same age as we are.

It simply is not possible to have any type of intelligent debate or discussion when one begins a post with that sort of dismissive contempt, so I won't even try.

Are you suggesting no one is inferior or superior? Are you saying all cultural and national groups are equal, none being more advanced or sophisticated than others?

What does that even mean? She wasn't a virgin so she got what she deserved?

There are certain cultures, like India, yes, where its open season on women alone. I had known that about India, but not suspected that was the case in the Arab world, given how incredibly conservative they are in regard to their women. This is a culture where a woman seen walking alone with a man can be killed for suspected indecency. Yet it seems the men don't hold themselves to the same standards of modesty and decency. It's like... can you imagine a bunch of Amish men reacting like this around a woman alone? Even a woman dressed in a mini skirt and tank top? It seems that in some cultures the women must be modest and behave properly but there are no restrictions on the men. In Italy, yes, compared to much of Europe, you'll see rude behavior, but nothing like in India or Cairo.

I wouldn't call it cynical, I'd call it... pragmatic to a fault.

There are still many Canadians unemployed. What we need are retraining systems which work. What we need are employers who are willing to train new employees like they used to do. If there are lousy jobs that are hard to find employees for then the market says employers need to pay more to attract workers. What immigration does is defeat this market mechanism by flooding the market with desperate, unskilled, third-world labourers who will take, literally, anything. And now we have 'temporary workers' coming in by the tens of thousands to do everything from janitorial work to working in the hotel and service industry as maids and busboys.

Yes, then he moved to New Jersey, and when I provided counter information he stopped talking about it!

I got news for you, Jack. I happen to be an enlightened conservative. And I pointed out to you already that your sole justification for what seems to be a life-long obsession with hating unions was that a couple of union guys were once rude to you. That set you to hating all unions and doing everything you could to make yourself 'popular' to your fellow workers, who naturally returned the compliment. From all you've said, if those guys had just come over and helped you out then you'd have spent the next forty years as a happy member of the union. :-)

I'd just call it stupid myself...

How does busting unions mean more freedom? Well, except for employers, of course. I can see it in that regard.Is that what you meant? I don't know why you brought in choice about 'killing babies' but it's interesting to note the new governor is opposed to choice in abortion, in fact, opposed to it even in the case of rape, incest, or the life of the mother. Apparently 'choice' is not high on his priority list.

Seems to me I've tried to suggest issues to you several times and you've completely ignored them. All you seem to do is spout the same line about how public servants aren't paying enough for their pensions.

At least it is on topic, which is more than can be said for most of the crap from the last several pages.

I agree. There is no purpose to be served in getting into childish back and forth insult exchanges. They're not even amusing or clever insults, for Gods sakes!

And then there are those of us who went to school and got an education and learned some history... And those of us who went out into the world, and met a lot of people, and worked in a lot of places and came to know a few things about life and reality.