FastNed

Hello, Logical1, it is a very nice arrow but I believe you have aimed it at the wrong target. While I can be inconsistent three times before breakfast, I do not believe I have been so at least not in a major way on the subject of religion in our public lives. The success of our North American version of Western Civilization has much of its basis in the concept of "Freedom" under a rule of law. As we practice this concept, you are free to believe in a particular 'flavor' of religion while I retain the freedom to believe you are involved in a primitive superstition which should have ended in the dark ages. Or I could be the superstitious one and v.v.. I have posted in or about two areas involving religion. The question of the Ten Commandments display in Alabama can not be answered or reached until a very serious constitutional matter is resolved. Does Federal Law, authorized under Article I of the U.S, Constitution, apply to a religious display in a State building; did the 14th Amendment create such a power in the Federal government; and, does or could the State Constitution of Alabama pre-empt Federal action in this specific case? Very technical but quite serious issues of Constitutional Law are involved and must be resolved prior to any decision on the specifics of this contentious issue. On the merits of religious freedom, I believe the issue has become so contentious that the Supreme Court can not continue to dodge the issue and will be forced to state an opinion on the question of freedom of vs freedom from religion in our public lives. I have also posted on the concept of "Marriage" in the Gay threads and believe I have taken a "Live and let Live" position in that area. This is a lengthy post which is going off topic so I'll stop here.

Nova - Please see "Pre-emption (Pages 1 2 )" We have two pages of discussion on this topic, perhaps you wish to move this and continue in that thread.

Nova, you really must become acquainted with the customs, protocols and requirements of this Forum, especially if you plan to continue to jump into the middle of a thread. Prior postings as well as this particular thread have discussed that the people of Seoul are hostages under the guns of North Korea and any American act could well cause several million casualties. You are free to believe what you wish of America but we will not spend those lives should we have any other choice - that decision shall be made when it is either evident or probable that Krazy Kim has placed nukes on the market. At which point, all bets are off, all other alliances are in limbo and America will act as its interests demand.

Hello, Black Dog - this is only tangential to "Korea" but I could not let your comment on "First Strike" pass unanswered. Where-ever you read or studied on this matter, you missed the point. America always disavowed the First Strike option and its WMD position was consistent - we would never initiate a nuclear conflict but would respond to one with the full might of our forces. " Many in the top ranks of the U.S. government (including the likes of S.A.C. commander Curtis LeMay in the 1950s) advocated a policy of preemption based on the idea that the U.S. could survive a limited nuclear exchange with the USSR." - this is simply incorrect. I was with SAC in Nebraska for a year. Our lives were lived on an 18 minute schedule - 18 minutes was the advance warning time we would receive from the DEW Line on an incoming Soviet attack. America lived or died based upon our ability to get our planes in the air within that 18 minute period in response to a first strike by Soviet forces. We knew that we were constantly monitored and should we consistently fail to meet that schedule, America would be destroyed in a massive "First Strike". The "MAD" Doctrine had at its core that any strike, however limited, would result in a full response with every weapon in our possession - there was no concept of "a limited nuclear exchange". Most if not all of the "MAD" Doctrine is now declassified and published in many places and there are sound geopolitical reasons for the lack of a limited response scenario. Note that your comment about "American Altruism" motivated me to post "Is America Altruistic" - stop by and join that discussion.

Steve, welcome to the Forum. Take I hear on the General is that he was one of the "Politicals" - a politician rather than a fighter. Fact that he fit well with Slick Willie would give some weight to these contentions.

There is nothing 'nova' or new about your posts - just tired old garbage. What connection is there between 50.000 dead in Kashmir and American Patriotism? "Thousands starving every day or the comming Hand of Death in Africa" has what connection with the topic of this thread? This is not your College English Department where nonsense deconstructionists statements are taken to be "weighty" and of significance.

You know, Craig, Nuke, Hugo - We must be doing something right here 'cause we're drawing trolls like Iraq draws terrorists! And Craig, you know you shouldn't call anyone a 'clown', it will hurt their tender feelings and they will grow up as maladjusted leftists with an irrational fear of America. Shame on you! Perhaps it me, perhaps I'm just used to quality postings from people who have views contrary to mine - SirRiff (for example) and I go back and forth but while we disagree, there is no question but that he posts well and defends his positions with comprehensive ideas (on many of which I have contrary views) as also do Black Dog, and many others. You do not see them posting drivel which consists of nothing but anti-American screeds. Lately, if you remove the anti-American comments from some of these new postings no content remains.

Very few outside of America appear able to understand what motivates Americans since 9 - 11. A vast number of people confused by images of American movie and TV shows misunderstand the basic American character. Are Americans cowboys - well yes, if your understanding of "Cowboy" means someone willing to risk it all for what he believes to be right, willing to stand against any odds to uphold his vision of what is America and what it means to the World. And does anyone question that a "Cowboy" is a patriot? There are many who insist that America should just "get over it!", that who are we to be so important that the loss of a few thousand of us should be so significant to the World. They miss the point, we really don't care how significant the World believes our loss to be, what is critical is how important it is to us! Many (including some Americans) would like to cast this as an internal political matter - it's those right wing Bush Republicans who are at fault and they are opposed by "good" Democrats. For your awareness, let me quote a "good" Democrat: :I was not a George Bush fan, probably never will be. I didn't vote for him and thought he stole the election (spare me your comments; we've covered this turf already; let me just set the scene and we'll move on). I think that his tax cut is the most cynical possible act: borrowing our money from us to to bribe us to vote for him (and it's no way to fix the economy). I wish he had accomplished anything to fix health care. Half his appointments frighten me. This is JEFF JARVIS at BUZZMACHINE and it is redundant for me to state that I do not share his political views. But I quote him as an example of someone who is at the opposite end of the spectrum (but not off the edge) but is also an American Patriot. Yes, 9 - 11 made each and every ordinary American look hard at what it meant to be an American and how they defined Patriotism. And what is his opinion of "patriotism"? Patriotism is much bigger than politics. And the definition of patriotism is no longer in the hands of the politicians and pundits. After 9.11, it is in our hands, for we are all Americans and we are all targets on this new battlefield. We know what it means to be patriotic and it has very little to do with partisanship or politics. We know the price of patriotism. Patriotism means defending the principles of America over politics. Patriotism means being willing to protect those principles where and when it's necessary. Patriotism means defending your children and your neighbors against those who would attack us because we are American. Patriotism means being willing to go it alone even when your former friends (read: Europeans) snipe at you." Does this increase your understanding of what drives Americans? Do you hold a different view of Patriotism? Do you believe American should chart a different course?

Do you think, Gugsy, that he'll say that before or after he calls his son-in-law for the official position of ChIraq & France?

SirRiff, you had this to say: really - and exactly what is it that you are doing hiding in the bathroom with your list of anti-American propaganda? A little transference going on here? Logical1 - as you have been too polite to emphasize, the content doesn't change no matter if you read fast or slow - but it was a 'nice' slur - which is par for the course from that particular source. I'm curious thou, how long does it take someone so logical to decide they are responding to a troll?

Mr Farrius, you said: You do hate speech quite well, that is when you are not busy libeling someone.

Hi Scriblett, welcome to the forum. It is easy to be convinced to be somewhat sympathetic to the Palestinians because they have been held hostage by their leaders and mentors for fifty years; the UN and Euro-whimps have enabled their vision of themselves as victims of oppression but the truth is, the oppressors are themselves and their wounds are self-inflicted. Life is about choices, often quite difficult ones and when the decision is of supreme importance you must find the courage in the midst of your fears to make the hard choice. The Palestinians have not done this. They continue to terrorize. They refuse to recognize that there is a cure for terrorism as old as mankind. To cure it, you kill all those who breed terrorists and let God sort them out. Hard times make hard choices for hard men.

Nuke, such a person as you describe is a free rider, doing as they please while living off those of us who work. Among the possible solutions to this are: (1) Limit support to the exact number of children extant at the time of her first welfare application. (2) Mandatory abortion (3) Mandatory sterilization (4) Removal if the children on the question of her fitness to be a mother. We can not start down the road of abortion and/or sterilization - we know where that road dead ends. Which leaves us with removing her from welfare or from her children. If possible, the father(s) of these children should not get a free ride either.

What sickens me is that America and the Euro-elite have protected that S.O.B. Arafat for years allowing him to continue to orchestrate terror attacks against Israelis without retaliation. Someone should have visited him with a Barrett years ago. It is time, well past time, for Israel to announce that it is going to apply American standards to terrorist attacks and after they take out Arafat and his crew, their next massive strikes should be on every UN camp, everyone of which are hotbeds for terrorist activities. Drive the entire retarded Palestinian population back into Lebanon and let the Syrians who have fostered and supported terrorist activities live with them. Abbas was the last chance for Palestinians to demonstrate they were will to cease terrorist activities and attempt to live in peace.

Sweet Jebus, Black Dog, you think money for education is a significant causative factor in educational results from public schools? Think again and hit the google button! Five minutes on the net will disprove this shibboleth which has been the mantra of educational unions for forty some years. We have thrown money at public education for all these years responding to the 'complaint of the day' - smaller classes, better pay for teachers, Head Start, and on and on - with pathetic results. The more we give to the educational establishment in K-12, the poorer the results. I forget where I saw it but it has stuck in my mind: "Public Schools are to Education as Prisons are to Housing". I believe it! Washington, D.C. has the unique distinction of having the highest per pupil cost (just under $10,000) and the worst public schools in the Nation. And this has been this way for year after year. It's informative that in the most educationally blighted areas of America, private Catholic schools, working with the exact same disadvantaged children with less than half the per pupil cost have vastly superior results. This has little to do with religion or funding and everything to do with a focus on traditional reading, writing and arithmetic plus rigid rules of decorum. This together with the lack of "Racial Politics" (an American curse) gives the kids fortunate enough to find a seat there what should be the right of every kid, a sound basic education which is the foundation for advancement for everyone, regardless of race. You comment that the U.S. Educational system underfunds schools for blacks and hispanics and the U.S. Justice system targets them for prosecution and that they are denied employment opportunities for racial reasons. There are a number of things incorrect about your statements - each of these represents a real problem but to attribute them to racism (residual or otherwise) is to allow yourself to be led astray by those who make a very rich living by the politics of racial hate. If funding would solve this educational problem, it would be long gone! Since 1964 America has spent zillions following the suggestions of the N.E.A. and the racial lobbies with p1ss poor results. In Vegas they call it double up and win - sucker! Spending more on a loosing system only increases your losses, you get a more expensive failure! America doesn't have a problem with poor political representation of minorities, it has a problem with too damn many of them - many of whom have discovered there is gold in them hills and who have made a fortune playing racial hate politics. One of the largest criminal problems of America is Black on Black crime - the majority of the prison population is there for exactly this reason. The black punk who mugs an elderly woman for her social security check (and breaks her hip in the process) belongs in jail and deserves to be there! Inter-racial crimes account for a very small proportion of the 'racial' population of American prisons. I concur that the criminal penalties for "Crack" possession have a disproportionate effect on blacks when compared to criminal possession of cocaine by whites but if you research the legislative process, you will discover those who led the fight for imposition of these severe penalties were in fact the minority members! They above all others witnessed the destruction this was causing in their communities. Employment is simple - it's education, education, education! Over the years, I have been acquainted with a number of blacks educated in the Caribbean - guess what, their employment in America doesn't track with discrimination based upon their race. They come from educational systems which adhere to traditional methods and values and candidly, a number of them spoke better English than I. Would that we could have the Barbados Educational system take over the Washington, D.C. School System - then we would see some improvement. I believe Gugsy and Hugo have the better view and believe the only solution is to turn away from the politics of race and demand educational performance from the system. The public school system is on life support and unless it changes, and soon, it's time for euthanasia.

Hi Nuke, Willie Wanker is a small town, pretty-boy, snake oil salesman politician and it's a poor reflection on America that we elected him not once, but twice. Part of the reason, I believe, is a problem both Canada and America share - about half the electorate no longer bother to vote. Depending upon your flavor of politics, there is one or another reason expressed for this and perhaps both are correct. People on both the right and the left have given up on politics for reasons which make sense to them and if we wish them back to the voting booth, we need to discover why! I think much of this alienation comes from the belief that the special interest groups now are so powerful that we average people have no input into the process. Those on the left rant about "right wing" interests and vice versa. Again, I think both are correct. The political people have proven what they are, it's down to dickering about price and when that is paid, they'll whore for any cause. More and more, politics has become a matter of the extremes - of the right and the left - and more and more "regular" people view the political pandering and walk away from the process. I believe this is a clear and present danger to the very existence of our democratic countries. Both the left and the right need to consider where this is taking us - it is not a pretty picture. If anyone has thoughts on how this alienated group can be brought back to participation, it would be a good subject for a new posting.

Hello, Black Dog, you are a serious participant on this Forum so I will respond to you. First, the statement that "thousands" of innocents have been killed can only presume that everyone killed by America's actions are "innocent." Second, these figures are inflated (to put it kindly). Last, and this will send you into orbit - it doesn't matter. The terms of this conflict were established when we were attacked - our civilians were targeted and killed. I agree that the Pentagon was a military target and, no doubt, had the Hero's Flight got to Washington our White House or Congress would have been targeted as well. It should be clear by now but let me be explicit: unrestricted warfare was unleashed upon us and we shall respond in kind when and where we choose! We have that right under the Laws of War. Every military in the world has been astonished at the precision of our military response as we have restricted our response in a manner never before witnessed in warfare. It has been surgical, aimed and, to the best of our ability, we have focused upon military targets. Civilian casualties are inevitable in any warfare and under the Laws of War, they are neither illegal or war crimes. Now watch my lips closely and listen carefully - you bet your ass we value American lives more than those of our enemy. What kind of fairy tale world do you live in? Aim a weapon at me and mine and I'll kill you. It is your good fortune that you live in North American where your ancestors and mine fought and when necessary, killed to establish our peaceful civilization. They and many of us today understood that freedom is not without price. Sometimes that must paid in the blood of patriots and even today, when the bill for freedom is presented, there are those among us - American and Canadian - who stand ready to pay that price. If I understand you correctly, you believe that we are in pursuit of an "unidentifiable, unvanquishable foe"; and here I thought we had done a fairly good job in identifying and establishing who it was that attacked us. Islamic fanatics -- and please let us not get into the flavor of the month game. I could care less what they call themselves or what artificial distinctions are made between this and that group. It just establishes a larger target selection. You make a snide comment about those of us at home who support our troops and their actions "while their own fat asses remained ensconced on their Lay-Z-Boys. " You truly lack understanding of the spirit of Americans and our grim determination to pay the Ferryman's Fee for our dead. If we were able, there are several hundred million additional of us who would shoulder arms and join the fight. Perhaps this will increase your understanding of us: We are as fanatical about our vision of America as our opponents are in their sick version of Islam! You express a concern: I notice something rather odd in all you have to say, everything is America's fault. Nowhere, not once, do you mention or assign the least concern or blame to the Islamic fanatics - you give them a pass in all your pi$$ing and moaning about America and the blood "we" are shedding. Odd that! Perhaps your prejudice is showing. I do agree, thou, with one thing you said: "As ye reap, so shall ye sow." Those that attacked us will meet the grim American reaper!

There are liars, and then there are statistics! The first "Red Flag" here is that CBO Forecasts are issued for ten year periods - when you see only seven years quoted, you should ask yourself why! The usual reason is that the omitted years do not support the view being advanced by whomever is doing the quoting. You must also remember that these are static projections which do not consider any changes in tax or economic policy. Thus these projections ignore all tax cuts and their effects upon the economy. From JFK onward, CBO projections have been absolute failures in the real world as changes in tax policy, i.e., lowering of tax rates have illustrated the fallacy of static projections of the American economy. In brief, they are of little value where tax cuts have been implimented.

Altruism, who ever claimed that our actions were motivated by altruism? A number of people on this Forum go back and forth about this but it is not the true issue. We are at war with Islamic Religious fanatics who close to attack us in our home on 9 - 11. Before we end our operations, those who attacked us, those who support them, those who provide aide and comfort to them will be dead. We will never forgive and never forget. We will pay the Ferryman's fee for each of our dead and we shall not go quietly into the night. You don't like that? Tough! Just don't get in our way. We were willing to live and let live where these fanatics were concerned until they chose to kill our women and children. They have framed this issue as our death or theirs; so be it - their choice, their funeral! You, and the remainder of the world are free to be anti-American, you are free to dislike us, berate us, criticize our every action but there is one thing neither you or anyone else has - freedom to kill us and our women and children. If you are a person who prays, I suggest that you say one that we continue to control our justified rage, that we continue to be guided by our better instincts and inclinations and that we do not give free rein to our complete power. You should pray that there is not another 9 - 11 within America because you have the education to understand the strength and power of America. Pray that we are not so angered that our rage is unleashed and vast areas of this world become "Black Zones" incapable of supporting any life above the level of a cockroach. We would not like what we had become, what we had been forced to do to insure our survival but we will do what is necessary to insure the survival of America. We will not offer our throats for Halal.

Hello, Black Dog, If I had any belief that there was even a fifty percent possibility that it would be effective, I would be all in favor of your suggestion: Reality intrudes to prevent my acceptance of your solution. Would you please indicate where this UN sort of action has been successful anywhere in the world? If your immediate thought is to name the Balkans, please take a look at their actual performance there to date. If you exclude the building of palatial compounds for UN Staff, there is little which can be mentioned as a success. Let's look and compare apples to apples: take a look at the UN record on restoration of electric power and basic clean water services. You do the search, you look at the figures and "success" (?) rate; do you wish to recommend this as an acceptable solution to the problems of Iraq? How about another UN Solution like Cambodia? How on earth can you expect an organization mainly composed of Dictatorships and special interest organizations to instill democracy in Iraq? To be blunt, the entire Middle East is a sewer - it's been blocked for quite a while and for lack of anyone else able and willing to do the job, and mainly because the accumulated sh1t from that area is flowing towards America, we have been forced to clean the swamp. Because the politics of Old Europe and the UN are preventing some of those who wish to assist us in this dirty task from acting, President Bush has , yet again, gone to the UN to , yet again, provide an opportunity for that pathetic organization to redeem itself and justify its continuance. It should be remembered that we Americans are not a greatly patient people when faced with constant opposition and the UN, as it currently exists, is damned close to receiving an eviction notice. The UN has a last-chance opportunity to redeem itself an name our actions in Iraq as a UN Certified mission under US/UK control. This will provide the political cover and justification for those who wish to assist but can not due to domestic political needs for a UN Stamp of Approval. There are others who have claimed that the lack of a "UN Stamp" is their reason for inaction: "Oh, we would like to help but..."; they will fiercely resist this UN action because its passage will reveal their true colors! Democratization of Iraq is a worthy goal - that America is leading the way should not be an excuse to oppose that result for the people of Iraq.

Hello 44Lucas, welcome to the Forum.

Hi Pell, there is no question but that people on both sides of the spectrum are rather narrow in their statements. Peoples ethics and morality are shaped by their education, upbringing and religion what else would you expect? There remains a small minority of what I would call religious fanatics who believe their "morality" is superior and they have some God given right to impose this on others. In their day, they had some pleasant pass-times such as burning people at the stake and the Inquisition and a few of them remain with us here in the West. For quite some time their numbers have been declining which is to be celebrated. To form a blanket opinion of the many based upon the statements and actions of these few is an error. The ability or quality called "genius" has long been an interest of mine. I do not believe their political leanings should be a guide. Might I suggest to you that you consider that genius is a 'sport', a genetic variance among us? While exceptional in specific fields, historically many have had physiological and/or mental problems and exceptional difficulties in social adjustments. The genius gene often appears to be connected to undesirable characteristics which leads me to believe that Mother Nature doesn't have it quite right yet. I wonder if SirRiff could add some genetic knowledge to this point?

What did the then government of South Africa do in 1991 with its nuclear weapons? Why am I not surprised that you fail to do any research?

Craig, Mr. Farrius has yet to make a contribution to a discussion on this forum. We appear to be having a troll infestation.

Let me say first that I have concluded that Judge Moore is a political opportunist and I would not wish to represent him on an overtime parking charge. Nevertheless, I believe the Federal Court was incorrect in its actions and lacks jurisdiction in this matter. The Bill of Rights, as it is commonly called, expresses limitations on the power of the Federal government. What is involved here is the first one so let's take a look at it: "Article [i.] Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Our government has no inherent powers, those belong to our citizens who have delegated certain of them. This article establishes enumerated areas where no Federal governmental powers have been delegated. A valid legal question exists if this limitation upon Federal powers applies, in whole or in part, to State government. That issue is being briefed and will be argued upon appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. It may well be that the document which is authoritative on this specific issue in Alabama is the Constitution of the State of Alabama not the U.S. Constitution. As I believe the legal basis for the decision by the lower Federal Court lacked constitutional authority, I do not concur with your opinion of the primary substance of the entire issue.