pinko

There must also be legislation outlining collective bargaining and pension plans. You keep dancing on the talking points offered up by the repugs. You have provide nothing of substance to date.

Contracts are normally changed through collective bargaining. I have already described the process. Again I ask you to get beyond your rhetoric and address the law in Wisconsin including collective bargaining rights and pension legislation.

"You'll notice that it's a shell game with these people." Speaking of shell games where is the meat. I am still waiting for you to provide something of substance on the pension issue in Wisconsin.

Saipan is busy at another wedsite he visits daily.

"Teacher's have been playing this dicey game for quite a spell" What game is that?

He is currently in Maui with his family and unavailable. He and I have already had a discussion about eugenics.

You still haven't been able to provide the meat my friend.

You failed to answer the question posed as follows: "would you be ok with the government setting up a panel to decide whether or not someone is eligible to have children?"

The meat has yet to appear on the table.

So far he has nothing specific to offer about the Wisconsin situation other than rhetoric.

Yes. I am not familiar with the labour law in Wisconsin but I am quite familiar with the law here in Manitoba and to a lesser extent other provincial jurisdictions.

I am in agreement that for the legislature to use its legislative capacity is unfair in the circumstances especially when it abrogates bargaining rights. Whether taxes should be raised ought to be considered apart from pension considerations. Most, if not all, collective agreements will have a nominal expiry date. At such a time both parties are free to offer up proposed changes to the terms of the collective agreement.

" zinger, and a thoughtful one! Excellent point." Yes

"if they don't plan for their future obligations it is their problem isn't it ?" They? Who are you referring to?

"Why are they not included you mean ? If this is about 'economics' then who knows. But it's not - it's politics. They want to cut taxes (to zero, I guess) and negotiated terms of employment are the next log for that bonfire." I mean the conditions offered by the Governor of Wisconsin have an economic impact on the public sector employees enrolled in the affected pension plans. Do you agree?

"I'm going to have to start calling you if you use the word 'economic' from now on as I'm still waiting to see numbers from someone on the 'pro' side of this issue." Are you suggesting this isn't an economic issue?

I haven't noticed that you have been prevented from discussing the pension situation. So go ahead make your case, Michael.

"Underfunded pensions are a problem for management aren't they ?" That they are and in addition such funds should not be used for other than the purpose of the pension plan itself. Most plans have periodic actuarial projections provided and prudent plan holders make adjustments based on these projections.

"Perhaps if they actually contributed to them the way they should, there wouldn't be any problems." Are you familiar with how such plans are designed? If so, how about explaining the mechanics of such plans including the trust arrangements associated with same.

You are going around in circles my friend. Unless you can produce a specific plan in a specific jurisdiction I will take your assertions with the attention deserving of such generalities.

I haven't asked you to kow tow to any political persuasion. It should be obvious to you that we have freedom of speech. That you and I differ on the place of unions is a reflection of that. You certainly have an inflated opinion of your place in society. By the way I really enjoy my defined benefit pension plan.

I had hoped you could demonstrate some original thought. What state do you live in? Maybe once you establish that you can then proceed to describe the law in the state you live in and the history of these pension plans.

I am an early to bed person so don't put too much stock in your theory.

My awareness of the conditions in that part of the world has been devloped through reading. The paradise offered by those adovcating the dissolution of collective bargaining rights is one I can do without.

Today is a new day. What would you like to discuss?