ceemes

Funny you should mention mudslinging as being a 'conservative'/'American' thing, maybe you should have watched the Liberal ads this past election, especially in Ontario =p Actually, the mudslinging of the Liberals during that last election was rather mild, especially compared to what is going on down south. At their worse, the Liberals simply feed back Harpers own words and quotes on TV and ran a webpage that had the entire quote and the context in which he had said it. It was a very effective tactic and did not distort the truth of Harpers past statements. On the other hand, Harper and the neo-Conservatives did attempt to paint the Liberals as a party of liars, thieves and child porn supporters. Plus there were the ads of Harper trying to look Prime Ministerial, which made him look to me as a dobious, oily used car salesman. Funny thing is, for the past 20 years (except during Kim's run when I decided not to vote), I have voted PC in every Federal Election. This election I found myself being forced to vote Liberal if only to keep Harper out of the PMO's office. Basically I saw Harper as yet another Gordon Campbell...a man who will say one thing to get elected and do the complete opposit once in power. I just didn't trust him or those around him. 'Evil' does exist in the world, and that means evil governments. I believe its up to those who are 'good' to do battle with the 'evil' to protect the innocent, have you ever truly thought of the people under these 'democratically elected governments'? Let me guess you believe Iraq was a democratically elected state? rofl Trouble is Hawk, a lot of the evil that is in the world has been supported by various past and and still is by the current US Administration. Lets not forget that both Saddam and UBL both got where they were (before their fall from grace) because of US support, money, arms and intelligence. It was the same with Suharto of Indonesia, Pinochet of Chile, the Shah of Iran, the House of Suad and many too numerous to count. And no, I do not think of Saddams Iraq or the current Vichy Iraqi Ruling Counsel when I think of Democratically Elected Governments. No, I was think more along the lines of Jacobo Arbenz, the first democratically elected leader of Guatemala, ousted in a CIA coup in 1954 and replaced by a military dictatorship. Then there was El Salvador during the 1980's, Hondorus etc. The truth is that the anti-Bush sentiment is primarily in the east and contained to hardcore Liberals, they hate Bush with the same vehement anger as American Democrats. I have seen Canadians with slogans ranging from pictures of Bush with a sniper hair between his eyes to depictions of him killing children for oil. This isn't reasoned, this isn't enlightened, this is merely immature, horrendous hatred of something they can't control. I think that is wishful thinking on your part. The anti-Bush sentiment is not because people be they leftist or not ( and I am certainly not of lefty) have a knee jerk hatred of him, but because of his action and his rhetoric. He is seen and rightly so as a loose cannon. Two days ago I stopped in Hope for gas and food and ran across a Texan tourist driving a big assed truck and trailer. Plastered on the back of his trailer were stickers, one reading, "Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing its idiot, Vote Bush Out." and the other more telling read "Proud to be Texan, Proud to be Repubilican, Proud to support Kerry" This tourist was no long haired freaky friend of Jesus, he was your stereotypical late middle aged, god fearing, white conservative American. We had an interesting discussion over coffee and basically he was fed up at being lied to left, right and centre by the Bush Administration and was voting Democrate just to get rid of Bush. Unless you live in BC, yer just another easterner to me

The Russians are tough and mean bastards in a fight...trouble is they have little in the way of subtlety. I am not sure what happened there, last I heard there were fruitful negotiations happening and hostages were being released. Two years ago a similar event happened in a movie theatre and the attack by Russian Special Forces ended up killing over one hundred hostages, these time the death count is around 200. Perhaps Russian Special Forces and Commando’s could use some training in hostage extraction from the SAS or some other world renowned Commando group. And additional training in hostage negotiation from the FBI.

Anti-Americanism in Canada stems from a number of issues. At the Highway 99/I-5 crossing between BC and Washington State there is the Peace Arch on which is inscribed on the American side the word “Children of a common mother” and "Brethren together in unity" on the Canadian side, and that is how I see Canada and the US, two brothers. However, the US is seen by many Canadians as the bigger brother who although is rich, powerful and successful, he is also a loud obnoxious jerk. You know that type, the guy who comes to family reunions flashing his cash, fancy car, success, bimbo of the week in everybody’s face and thinks he is loved and respected and all the while, you are quietly thinking to yourself, “What an asshole”. It doesn’t help matters much when that big brother (The US) feels that he has every right to take your (Canada’s) toys and things to do with as he wishes, when he wishes without asking. There of course if the fact that Americans are very self-centred, even when visiting other nations including Canada. I hate to say it, but most Americans have little or no knowledge of Canada, our history, our laws or even our culture. Indeed, many seem to feel that because they are American, they are due some kind of special treatment not afforded to other foreign nationals when visiting Canada. Many fail to realize that their Constitutional Rights ends as soon as they cross the border into Canada. I was an MP in the CAF in the early 80’s and during a joint US/Canadian Engineering exercise in BC, I had a US soldier offer to sell me some cocaine, even though I was clearly an MP. I of course arrested him and while searching him for more drugs and or weapons, he was screaming about his Constitutional Rights and how I was violating them. Apparently US MP’s need a search warrant to check an inside shirt pocket or some such nonsense. He just could not get it through his head that he was now in Canada and subject to Canadian Laws and that the Constitutional Rights he enjoyed in the US did not apply here. Then there is America’s foreign policy, which in the eyes of many Canadians is seen as expansionistic and imperialistic. Canada is by and large, a quiet nation, willing to let other nations govern themselves as they wish, live and let live if you will. America on the other hand seems to feel it has some god given right to interfere with the governance and affairs of other nations even to the point of overthrowing democratically elected governments. This is something that goes against the very core of Canadian nature. Most Canadians have family or close friends who are American, so our anti-Americanism is not directed at individual Americans, but rather it is directed at the group dynamic that is America and what it means to be American. As for the anti-Bush sentiment, many here feel that he is a dangerous idiot, who is being lead by the nose by blind ideologist and who could in a moment of religious furor, trigger a catastrophic world war. The majority of Canadians are religious to one degree or another (personally, I tend to lean towards Buddhism), but like our patriotism, we are quietly religious and do not wear it on our sleeves. Again, this is another glaring example on how Canadians and Americans differ. Americans tend to identify with their religion and are loud about it, just as they are with their patriotism. Canadians generally do not like having religion mixed with politics. This could be because we are a multi-cultural society made up of many peoples and religions. Any party that claims to be strictly Christian or whatever will not do well in polls. Canada also has history of religious tolerance within the political spectrum. In the 1800’s, Jewish Canadians won the right to sit in Parliament and swear the oath on the Torah instead of the Bible. Canada was the first nation of the old Empire to grant such rights to Jews and long before the US Jews enjoyed such freedoms. I would say that Canadians are more “sane” about mixing politics and religion. So far, we have avoided having something like the Christian Fundamentalist organizations of the US grabbing political power or positions of undue influence. This allows us to debate issues gay marriage with the minimum of religious rhetoric clouding the issue. All Canadian political parties are environmentalist to one degree or another. Canada’s population is a little over 1/10th that of the US and a landmass that is just under 1/3rd greater and so is not as greatly developed. Canadians in general are very in tune with their natural wealth, and thus are generally more pro-environmental then the average American. Any party that ignores the environmental concerns of Canadians would soon find themselves losing votes and seats in Parliament. Conversely, any party that focuses solely on radical environmental issues would soon find themselves relegated to the far fringe of Canada’s political spectrum. In ascending order, you can say that the Green Party is the most pro-environmental party, followed by the NDP, then the Liberals with the Conservative Party being the least environmental party. Again, you have hit on a fundamental difference between Canada and the US, our lack of a gun culture. That doesn’t mean we don’t have guns here, in fact it is estimated that Canadian gun ownership is almost equal to that of the US on a per capita basis. However, gun ownership in Canada is mainly for hunting or vermin control in farmlands and not for personal protection. I think our respective histories shaped our attitudes toward guns and the gun culture. The US is a nation that was birthed by the gun; expanded by the gun; and settled by the gun. Take the settlement of the both the US and Canadian west. In the US, that settlement was done by armed settlers and the US Army, the rule of law came later and even then it was a rough and tumble law enforced by the gun. Canada on the other hand sent a quasi-military police force, the NWMP (later known as the RCMP) out west to bring the rule of law to the land before the main wave of settlers headed out. This allowed Canada’s west to be settled rather more peacefully then in the US. Canadians generally do not settle their differences with guns. However, there has been a marked increase in gun crimes in our major cities. A fair percentage of gun related crimes in the Vancouver region have been committed by South East Asian crime gangs seeking to control the drug trade. But in the main, the majority of urban and rural Canadians feel that they are safe and secure enough and do not need a gun to protect them or their family. You have to understand, we do not use the same system as you do, and so find your system rather convoluted and confusing (in between pissing ourselves with laughter at times). As for dirty and distracting politics, they do happen here, however any party or party leader that relies on suchhttp://www.mapleleafweb.com/dialogcentral/black_fb_english.gif http://www.mapleleafweb.com/dialogcentral/..._fb_english.gif tactics alone without addressing the issues or putting forth their platform will soon find themselves out on the fringe with no hope of winning a single seat.

Okay, lets split the differance and say she was a bit of both.....half sacrificial goat (she was no lamb by any stretch of the imagination) and half suicidal lemming. As I said, at that point in Canadian Federal Politics, the PCP could of ran Jesus Christ for PM and backed up with Allah, Buddha, Istar and whatever other diety you can come up with and they still would of gotten wiped out at the polls. Same thing happened with the Social Credit Party of BC, Van der Zalm destroyed it completely and Rita Johnston was tossed to the electoric wolfes to appease their anger and appitite for blood. Right now, I am wondering if history is about to repeat itself here with Campbell. From what I am hearing from people inside the BC Liberal Party and business contacts, knives are being sharpened as we speak. Trouble is, no one within the caucus is really willing to fill deadman's shoes come the next election. I would argue that Canadian Politics no matter if they are Federal, Provincial or even Civic have always been and will alway be driven by regionalism. East vs West, North vs South, Rural vs Urban, that is the nature of Canadian Politics since Confederation. And there has always been a streak of anti-Americanism throughout the entire nation and not just in the urban centres. Let's be honest about it, the one thing that the majority of Canadian do identify themselves by is, "We are not Americans". In some such attitudes are very overt, but in the main it is just simmering below the surface.

Reagonomics or the trickle down theory has been disproven all too often. Indeed, Bush Sr. spent much of his time in office reversing most of Reagon economic programmes in order to stop the hemoraging of red ink it was producing. Clinton continued dismantling Reagon economic policies and practises and created the biggest surplus the US had ever seen. Bush in 3.5 short years after bring back the discredited Reagonomics system has racked up a record deficit, lost millions of jobs, lowered actual income and basically FUBAR'ed the US economy. It will take at least 6 to 8 years to repair it. No matter how you look at it, economically, foreign policy wise, war of terror, national security, what have you, the Bush Administration has been a complete and utter disaster for not only the US, but the for the entire world. Sadly, only approx. 6% of the worlds population can vote on November 2. and a little less then 3% of the worlds populations wants the Crawford Village Idiot re-elected.

Campbell was also bascially a scarficial goat thrown to the Canadian electoric by the PC party. Ex-PM Brian Mulroney has so angered the Canadian electoric and people, that had the PC ran Jesus himself for PM, they still would of lost. There seems to be a tradition in Canadian politics to offer up a scaraficial goat to the public when a ruling party has pissed off the population to the point where they have no chance of re-election. This is especially true in my Province of BC where we have had two such Premiers. Ms. Rita Johnston of the Social Credit who took the punishment due to Bill Van der Zalm when he stepped down and Ujjal Dosanjh of the NDP during our last Provincial elections.

There are all kinds of independant tribunals in Canada, some religious, other industrial, professional or trade. However, if an agreement cannot be worked out within these independant tribunals, then the matter is taken to Law Courts. Sounds as if this Muslim one is just another in a long line of these independant tribunals. However, if I am not mistaken, this tribunal is only to be used for civic matters and not criminal and only if both parties agree to it. If one of the parties does not agree to go before the Shia Tribunal, then the matter is taken up by the Law Courts. In Malaysia, Shia law is only enforced against those of the the Muslim faith, Buddhist, Christians, Hindu's and other are do not have to abide by Shia law. Common law is the law of the land there as it is in Canada (Except Quebec where Civic Law is the norm).

Interesting thread, now for my two bits...(is that groans I hear?) First off, the Pitbull Terrier is not considered to be a breed unto itself by the Canadian Kennel Club, but rather it is a mixed breed. That said, it has been breed for certain traits, aggression, strength, fearlessness and tenacity. Secondly, it seems every decade has it so-called vicious dog of choice. In the 60's it was the German Shepard, in the 70's it was the Doberman Pincher, the the 80's brought in the popularity of the Pitbull Terrier and the 90's came the Rotweiller. Lately I have seen a number of "toughs" leading huge British Mastiffs about. Funny thing its, two of those breeds, the German Shepard and the Doberman are now considered to be basically mild tempered dogs ideally suited for family pets. Indeed, they are valued because of their mild natures and their fierce loyalty to their family. Both the Pitbull and the Rotweiller breeds can and do make wonderful pets, just like the German Shepard and the Doberman. The main problem with the vicious members of those breeds is not the breed themselves, but the assholes whole train them to be vicious killing machines. The vast majority of both Pitbull Terriers and Rotwelliers will go through their entire lives not attack, biting or even nipping at a person. Banning the breed is a new jerk reaction to a few bad apples, better to ban bad owners or those that breed dogs to be vicious. Sadly, when a dog does attack a human, it has to be put down....personally I believe that if it can be proved that the owner or trainer of that dog had trained it to attack or to be vicious, then they themselfs should also be put down. In closing, I have interacted with dog all my life, including so-called killer breeds such as Dobermans, Shepards, Rotties, and Pitts and IMHO the two most vicious and dangerous breeds are the Mexican Hairless Chiwahahaha....(whatever that ugly rat with pretentions of being a dog is called) and the Peke's. I have been attacked and bitten by both those breeds on numerous occations and never by the so-called killer breeds. Fortunately those two toy breeds have small teeth and are the perfect size to be punted across the room or the yard when they come charging in at you.

Please explain further. Whats rotten? Whats dangerous? They required extensive reworking and retrofitting to make them safe and seaworthy. Thats the government's estimate, based on past purchases and current labour costs. Canadian naval designers, both in hardware and software have designed and built the most modern Frigates on the seas today. The Halifax Class Patrol Frigates even outshine the American Aegis Class Destroyers and Cruisers for fire control, target tracking and fire power for size. Even the old 280 Tribal Class destroys were ground breaking when they were first laid down. Iraq bought and has Soviet tanks and aircraft This is true, however they have since designed and built their own MBT's and combat aircraft. What hand me downs? What factory seconds? Hand me down used patrol subs from the RN, sub that required a huge amount of refitting to make them seaworthy and safe. Factory seconds as in CF-18's and other US equipment. Has there been any major problem reported with the current Diemaco design? It an overly complicated design and easily disabled. Plus it is still very subsceptable to jamming, espeically if you put a full load into the magazine, or fire for an extended time. Basically it is easily fouled by bit of dirt or burnt powder. A buddy of mine was in Yugoslavia the the PPCLI and they got into a minor firefight with one of the factions there.....and a number of their rifles jammed more then once. The FN was a good rugged and simple weapon and could take a lot of abuse. 5.56 is the NATO standard.........get over it. Standard or not...its still a pansy round compared to the old standard of 7.62....it has less effective range, less hitting power, less penitrating power and there is some concern that the round fragments too easily, causing what they call inhumane wounds.

If a country like Iraq can design and build their own home grown MBT's and combat aircraft, then I don't why Canada can't. Sure it would mean heavy investment in R&D along with plant building, but it could free us from buying hand me downs from the UK or factory seconds from the US. First thing I 'd like to see is a Canadian designed and built rifle that has a heavier punch, better range and accuracy and reliability then the Canadianized M-16 piece of shit the forces are currently using. Call me biased, but I am from the FN-C1 generation, and believe that the old adage of there is no replacement for displacement is equally true for small arms rounds....ie....the 7.62 round will always top the pansy 5.56

Actually that is part of the problem........it our finished lumber that is being nailed by US counterveiling duties, not raw logs. The US producers would love nothing bet then complete and unhindered access to our unprocessed logs and to our forest. Indeed, raw logs shipments to the US have increased during the softwood dispute.

At the end of WWII, the British Government seeing a future where there would be two competing superpowers, the US and the USSR proposed that the middle power nations of the Commonwealth combine into a third power to counteract both the US and USSR. The idea was to have a combined military and economic alliance within the Commonwealth that could act independently of NATO, the UN and the future Warsaw Pact. However, the Canadian Government at the time shot down the idea as did the Governments of Australia and New Zealand. To this day, I can't help but wonder what Commonwealth Superpower could of accomplished in stopping both US and USSR aggression and expansion.

The BC public school system has been a running joke for the past 30 years or more. I graduated from High School back in the late 70's, and the main thing I learned was that all I had to do was show up to class, don't make the teachers life a misery, and do a minimum amount of work (more often then not, just showing up to class and quietly bsing with your friends counts as the minimum)....and you would automatically get bounced up to the next grade right up to and including graduation. By the time I decided on going to college after leaving the Army, I had come to realize that my time in High School had not prepared me for the rigours of post-secondary education. My study habits were crap, my writting skills even worse (they have improved since then, but thank the gods that be for word processors and spell check), my ability to research was basically non-existant. And sadly I was not alone in this, basically a large portion of the first year in college was spent in manditory remedial training to bring college students writting skills up to at least Jr Sec levels. Ten years after graduating from college, I was back in school retraining at BCIT after a bad accident. I was what they called a mature student whose post college career did not require any writing or research skills. (Studied criminology and ended up driving a truck ) To my horror, I discovered that the high school grads of the early 90's had even less writting, study and research skills then those of the 70's. Because of their lack of skills and motivation, I always ended up being the editor and complier for all the group projects I had to be part of. Somehow I doubt things have gotten any better in the past ten years, in fact judging from what I have seen in the way of covering letters that cross my desk from recent high school and college grads, I can safely say they have become worse.

In order for the company to become more competitive, it needs to become more efficient, to become more efficient it needs to moderize its capital assets and give its workforce the new skills and training to use these new assets, and in order to do that, the company needs an economic incentive.....and winning a half a billion dollar contract to build the new BC Ferry fleet would be one hell of an incentive. Very few, if any projects on the scale of the Spirit Class ferries even come in on budget or on time, especially when you are talking about new designs and prototypes. However, the Government can protect itself and the taxpayer from these somewhat by having penalty clauses inbedded into the contact against cost overruns and delays. After all, companies such as Wal-Mart have draconian penalty clause inbedded in every contract they sign with a supplier. Be late with a delivery, short an item, over an item and the supplier gets dinged big time......

Will the new ferries not run in BC? They will provide jobs for the workers at BC ferries. If they are here faster and cheaper, they will put BC ferries in a better financial position. Should the workers at BC ferries not benefit from a well managed company? They will also have the money and time to focus on new smaller boats for the other runs. Will the efficiency not also allow them to create more economic activity? This is money for three big capital assets. This is not a waste. Willy, Those job already exist. When the new boats are commissioned and put into service, the old boats will be retired and pulled out of service. The crews of the old boats will simply transfer over to the new ones. Indeed, it is doubtful that the new boats will create any new jobs within the BC Ferry Corp at all, and in fact they may even require less crew to operate. Building the big boats in BC as well as the small ones would have major positive impacts right across the board for the BC economy. Not only would the shipbuilding industry benefit, but so would the supporting industries such as the transportation industry. Local suppliers of building materials would also benefit. And the wages earned for the construction of those boats would be spent in the local economy, boosting the profit margins and viability of numerous other local companies. By sending the contracts offshore, the BC Government is cutting its nose off to spite its face. It is basically shrinking its own tax base, which is foolish. Then there are the potential side benefits, odds are new construction systems will have to be developed or implimented giving our people the new skills they will need to be competitive in the future. The shipbuilders will most likely have to invest in new infrastructer and equipment that would allow them to compete for other contracts. Why is the Campbell government so bent on handicapping both BC workers and companies?

Factor in the time it takes to be a union member (apprentice, part-time) and I'll bet it works out on average to be about the same. There's no free lunch. (Unless you look like Orlando Bloom or Isabelle Adjani.) You didn't include a total quote of my paragraph or statement, nor did you address the point I was making, that wages for that job, be it union or non-union have decreased over the past twenty years. Very dishonest of you. Many unions also run training programmes, especially in the trades. These training programmes are developed with equal input from the industry and government. A tradesman goes through numerous steps as his skills increase, trainee, apprentice, journeyman and finally mastercraftman. But not all unions have these designation, mainly because they do not exist within their industry or trade. However, as a person gains experience, he or she becomes move valuable for his or her employer and thus deserves greater renumeration.

There are NO economic benefits from building a house. (Building a house requires a lot of hard work.) There ARE economic benefits from living in a house. You got to be joking......NO economic benefits from building a house? Are you sane or sober? There are huge economic benefits from building houses, hell it is one of the key economic indicators of our economy. When a contractor builds a house, he has to pay wages to his employees and sub-contractors, buy materials.....and then make his profit......taxes are collected on all these and get sunk back into the economy.....when most people buy a house, they need to get a mortgage and pay interest on that loan, which in turn get reinvested back into the economy.....god, the economic benefits of house building are flippin' huge. And what are they trading for these new boats?.......hard earned BC tax payers money and jobs. This makes no sense. A fair chunk of any monies I spend at Wal-Mart (which I don't, don't get me start on Wal-Mart) stays within the local economy. Wal-Mart has to place a shop within my area in order to service my needs. It has to staff those stores, buy or lease land to build said store, pay various taxes to my local authorities......a fair percentage of any money I may spend at my local Wal-Mart stays within my local economy. This makes even less sense then your Wal-Mart statement. Last time I check, there are no greenhouses in BC that grow oranges, however BC does have an established, talented and local shipbuilding industry. And we have a shaky economy right now, so I do not see the sense of transferring 1/2 a billion of BC'ers taxpayers money overseas when we could use that money spent here to create jobs and economic activity.

Suggest you check out who dispatches (or at their website, dEspatches) workcrews to the docks....its not the union halls, but an organization call BC Maritime Employers Association.....which represents the Employer and not the employees...it is they who decide what and who is needed. BCMEA Link

Bullshit, unions do not nor have they ever run this country. In the early 80's I left the Armed Forces and went back to school (yes, I admit I was foolish and studied a liberal art.....years later I corrected that mistake by attending the BCIT School of Business) and worked as a unionized Security Guard......after I left school and the security job, I was making the top rate of $8.45 per hour and living fairly well at that. Today, twenty years later a unionized security guard has to pay to attend a training programme to get his papers and when he or she is on the job, will only be making between $8.50 to $10 per hour if they are lucky. In those twenty years, the cost of living has gone up at least doubles or tripled, and yet wages have remained the same. When I was doing security work, a friend of mine worked at a non-union warehouse as a shipper/receiver earning $15 per hour (Union shops were earning around $20 per hour at the time). Today if you check the papers help wanted ads, you will find that the average pay for a shipper/receiver is $9 per hour at a non-union shop and $12 per hour at a union shop. To say that unions are dragging down our economy or are ruling our nations is bullshit of the highest caliber. multi-nationals and other corporations have the ear of our politician along with a firm grasp of their fiscal goolies.

I deal with unions every day. The inflexibility of union contract prevents me from making work environments better. I can not reward someone for doing things not in the contract. I can not reward people for merit when seniority take precedence. I can not give people the flexibility to deal with family issues because of contracts. I have to call a union person just to move a desk. I get to see grievances filed just so people can take time off with pay outside of contract. A few unions in BC have managed over the years to get senior staff 9 weeks holiday a year. Honestly how on earth can anyone accomplish anything with all this stuff? The horrible irony is that it ends up hurting employees or as some like to call them working people. (like I don’t work) Do the police monitor your every move or do they act only when crime is being committed. Unions are about unions. The justice system should be about justice. If that is the case then you are either a poor manager or a poor negotiator. I have worked in both union and non-union evironments as both a grunt worker and later as a manager. Unions are by and large a business unto themselves, and yes at times they are a necessary evil, especially when a firm treats their employees like crap. When you are dealing with unions, especially when it comes to contract renegotiating time, I found it best to trest them like a business partner rather then as an adversary. Treat them and their members as the enemy and you will be forced to fight them for every clause and point. Treat them as a partner in your business endevour, allowing for full participation in planning and you will find most will bend over backwards to ensure your business is a roaring success......if only because it is in their own best interest (read as greedy interest) to do so. Have you ever heard of the TQM princiiples of business? If not, I suggest you look into them.

The odds are my local GP will have been trained and educated at UBC and even so.......when I visit him or shop here, a vast chunk of the money I will have spent will stay in the local economy in the form of wages, taxes and other local sundry expenses. That money in turn will be reinvested or spent again in the local economy. Tossing half a billion dollars out of your economy is a fools game. And BC shipyards have been turning out world class ferries that are ideally suited for our waterways for decades. (Not counting the FastCats which were never intended for BC waterways, but rather for the export market). Given the current economic climate in BC, does it make sense for the government to take that money out of province instead of injecting back into our home economy? The lost income and sales tax revenues alone are staggering, especially when you consider the multiplier effect of money. Campbell and Co are happy to throw away are few hundred million for a one off show in 2010, where is the sense in that? (Dont get me wrong, I favour the Winter Games coming here) Do we need to replace our aging ferry fleet? Yes. Can the BC shipbuilding industry and workers design and build the ferries we need? Yes Should the majority of the economic benefits that will come from building new ferries and paid for by the BC taxpayer stay in BC? Yes Should the BC taxpayers hard earned cash by sent overseas to suppliment a foreign nations economy? No.

When you go shopping, do you say $100 have been taken out of your household economy and transferred into the local shopping mall economy? IOW, why not keep that money in the family and grow your own food and make your own clothes?BTW, would it make any difference if the ship builder was in Quebec rather than Germany? How about Manitoba? Why do you arbitrarily draw a line at the BC border? Lets see, BC has its own ship building industry and has built the current BC Ferry fleet in the past, including the two Spirit Class boats. Where is the sense of sending BC taxpayers money out of the Province to build the ferrys BC needs when we can build them ourselves? Why export the economic benefits overseas or even out of Province when they can be sunk back into the local economy? Why should the BC taxpayer contribute to a European nation's tax base? Would it not make more sense to keep the money and jobs in BC instead of sending them overseas?

Hell, in one interpretation of the bible, they see the US as the Babylon of Revelations and that it will be destroyed before the final battle of Armageddon….. Depending on how you read them, you can prove almost anything with either the Bible or Statistics.

Which one? The Great and Terrible God of Rye Whiskey?

What an idiot. Campbell allowed this to become a private company owned by the government to avoid disclosing information and accounting for its actions. Sadly, it looks as if Campbell & Co are out to sell off as much of BC as possible before they get the boot. Half a Billion Dollars are to be taken out of the BC economy and transferred into the German economy.....you can bet the Germans or whoever in Europe wins that contract will be pissing themselfs with laughter.......all the way to the bank.