Cartman

Willy, I actually agree on many of your points but I still think that funding is a problem especially in smaller communities where they keep saying insufficient funds is the cause of service cutbacks. I am not sure about the military nature of nurses. My sense is that many perform doctor duties and the dr. simply comes by to supervise. I just spoke to a close friend about nursing in Alberta. She says they are adequately paid, but work hours are difficult and the job stressful. I am sure everyone knows how the US is recruiting our nurses and offering to pay off any outstanding student loans. I wonder if such a scheme should/could be implemented to keep our nurses at home (considering the gov't did pay a substantial portion of their tuition). I cannot blame people for being attracted by these offers.

I wholeheartedly agree with you CanadaRocks. It is wasteful that the average person spends so much time in school and has few skills for obtaining rewarding employment. Governments have to wake up on this one. Too many "average" students are let into university and many of them are from wealthy families. This is a problem. Grade inflation is also a problem. Most importantly, there exists a mentality today that if you can get into school and pay for university, you should automatically pass and get a degree. I warn students that simple registration in my classes does not guarantee passing grades for everyone. I use a curve and it works well. I find it ironic that some people on this forum seem to believe that workers should not demand high wages, but at the same time, also argue that people should pay for their own education.

True enough. During the '90's all the provinces had to cut back services b/c of reduced federal contributions. In return, the provinces were allowed more discretion in how they spent these funds. I think that they are both to blame. My concern is that BC is still cutting and closing beds while the economy is growing. Caesar's story and as I have posted earlier, the fact that my father has to leave home to go to a place where there actually exists a medical facility, is wrong. The area I am talking about contributes substantially in tax dollars (b/c of heavy industry) to the BC gov't.

This is the only criticism of unions I will accept so far. Sometimes a person can wait for some time to get into new positions and learn more. Point accepted. Safety is not an issue in the workplace anymore? WTF? Maybe if you work in a mall it is not a big issue, but it is if you work in heavy industry. When I pulled electric cable for Marion shovels, if there was a cut in the lines (and they are never perfect) the cable could blow off my hand, chest or hip. Yeah...that's a safety concern. I had to rely upon people to inspect the cable for cracks and my hot gloves for pin pricks. I always felt better knowing that a unionized person with adequate time was inspecting them rather than someone being pressured to get the job done quickly. I don't know why I even bother to post this because it is so self-evident but whatever. "78-79 percent of unionized workplaces reported high compliance with health and safety legislation while only 54-61 per cent of non-unionized workplaces reported such compliance." Report, Ontario Workplace Health and Safety Agency. "In workplaces with full union recognition and a joint management-union safety committee serious accident rates were less than half those at firms with no union recognition and non joint committee." Barry Reilly, Peirella Paci and Peter Hall. Unions, Safety committees and workplace injuries. British Journal of Industrial Relations, 33, 2, June 1995. Unionized workplaces were three times as likely to have a health and safety committee, and twice as likely to have undergone a management occupational health and safety audit in the preceding 12 months. Paraphrasing of Workplace Relations Survey,1990-1995, Australia. "Effective strategies for involving workers appear to be conditional on a number of variables, most importantly on worker activism and the effective use of formal negotiations." Michelle Ochsner and Michael Greenberg, Factors which support effective worker participation in health and safety: A survey of New Jersey, Industrial and Hygienists and Safety Engineers. Journal of Public Health Policy, volume 19, No 3, 1998. Barry Hirsch ("Workers Compensation Recipiency in Union and Non-union Workplaces," Industrial and Labour Relations Review, Vol. 50, No.2 January 1997, p.p. 213-235) concluded that in cases where workers do get injured on the job or develop work-related illnesses, it’s also advantageous to be a union member. Studies in the United States and Canada show that union members are more likely to receive WCB Benefits when they are injured on the job than non-union members. This is attributed to the fact that union members can go to their union representative for help navigating the WCB’s bureaucratic maze. Non-union workers are on their own."

So let me get this straight. If I offer you some statistics on this matter demonstrating my point, you will accept the results wholeheartedly?

Would you argue that non-union environments are safer? No, I doubt it. As someone who teaches statistics, I do not need them to prove that I breathe air. Some things are common-sense. There are many alternative qualitative methods of inquiry to which you should avail yourself. Simply put, some things cannot be properly measured by statistics. For instance, many corporations avoid such statistical analysis by coding "accidents" as "incidents" or otherwise. This saves them insurance $$$, but also makes analysis difficult. I have worked at many union and non-union workplaces where safety was a concern. In a nutshell, union workers are more prepared to refuse to do unsafe work (i.e. work under a running machine with moving parts) because they know that they have the support of others, while non-union workers are afraid to do so. I think Black Dog put it best when it was stated that unions will not exist if they put corporations out of business. This is clearly not the goal.

Quick story Caesar. A few years ago, Campbell sent out a really slick letter to our Mayor (I have since moved from this community). Basically, this personally signed letter stated that "it was really nice to see you at the economic conference" and "I was very impressed at the way you lobbied for your community" etc. etc. In fact, the town was so impressed by this letter, that it appeared in full in the local town newspaper. One little glitch though. This mayor was not at the conference because HE WAS DEAD!!!! BC Liberals should make their leaders pass an IQ test. The first question should be "spell potato".

Caesar...that is just incredible and sad. My father has to leave the home town we have lived in for decades b/c the right-wing Liberal cutbacks have closed the only health care facility in the area. As a (healthy) senior, he obviously needs emergency access to health care. The Liberals seem to disagree. I guess this solves the problem they had about keeping a doctor in town though. I agree entirely.

Ten years ago on the bus to work in BC (when we made $25.00/hr at a corporation that is still doing quite well), one of my fellow union workers jokingly said that he wanted to contract out/outsource his own job. He went on to say that most Albertans are stupid enough to accept the "work for any low wage" rhetoric (sorry fellow Albertans...just relaying a story ), so he would just hire one of them at about $6.00/hr and earn $19.00/hr just for staying at home while the other guy was working. Of course, this is capitalist logic. Don't you guys see the madness/stupidity/insanity at fighting for third world wages?!?!?!?! If low wages made a nation's economy stronger, then the power houses would be Mexico, Zambia, etc etc.

I think that you are the one living in "la la land". What about the safety issue? I see you have avoided this issue entirely. My suspicion is that you have not actually worked in heavy industry where unions are required in order to maintain a safe working environment. The anti-union sentiment expressed here is the result of jealousy pure and simple. If you were unionized, I highly doubt that you would refuse the rewards that others have worked so hard for. That is also why is there no negative reaction to managers who earn so much. BTW...I am not sure where you live, but $23/hr is not very high these days. Try raising a family properly on that.

OUCH. Never voted for him, but I would rather have Klein than Campbell. In fact, I would rather have Parizeau than Campbell. Remember when Getty said he was gonna pave every secondary road in the Province?!?!?! WTF?

Coincidentally, I also have a friend (in BC) in the exact same situation but I think that the problem of waiting lists is due to right wing economic policies and cuts.

Who are you responding to here IMR? Who said the media was left-wing or right wing? Personally, I think it is just cheap even if the graphics look sweet. I doubt anyone has a hard time finding US news to watch even if the CRTC is "big brother".

What I dislike about the media, local news in particular, is the way that they rely upon the monitoring of police scanners in order to generate sensationalist news (crime). At the national level, particularly newspapers, is the recycling that goes on. Compare newspapers from different cities and it is amazing how similar they really are. Most Canadian news is really cheap with too much dependency upon US sources for international affairs. One rarely finds serious investigative journalism anymore. CBC Disclosure was pretty good but I think it was turfed. If drab, PBS is the only decent one in my opinion. Most significant media problem? The way that some "news programs" spend an inordinate amount of time discussing recipes or when hosts "chit chat" with one another about banal and obscure things. Anyone else want to see Valerie Pringle and clones (shudder about here) shipped off to Siberia? Left-wing or right-wing alike can agree to this last request.

The point is that he blatantly lied about his behaviour. Nobody has that level of alcohol in their system after supposedly drinking so little...c'mon. At least Klein was smart enough to come clean. One reporter asked Campbell (about the DUI incident) whether he had done this in the past. He said, to his knowledge, this has never happened before. Then, the reporter said, so the only time you have ever done this you just happened to get caught? Wow...what bad luck. I can accept a person doing something improper. But I cannot handle a person trying to treat everyone like idiots by obviously lying about it. How can anyone have faith in this gov't? But I guess we are just talking about past tense here anyways 'cuz he is a goner and rightfully so.

Wal Mart has also been accused of systematically forcing employees to clock in after they have already put in time at work. I refuse to shop at this dump. I guess some will say that this is just part of being competitive? Without gov't intervention, how are Canadians expected to compete with third world nations in terms of wages? This is especially important considering that most jobs can be "Taylorized" these days (India's computer industry). If the only way that we can keep jobs here is by lowering ourselves to these levels, then I cannot see any way our economy will sustain itself in the future. Who here is willing to work for third world wages? BTW...if you receive above "competitive" third world wages, it is likely due to the fact that unions have created a climate (even for non-unionized workers) of relatively high wages in the first place!

Klein said yesterday that he is going to remove health care premiums for seniors. Too bad he could/would not have done so for everyone. An election is coming. The drinking issue. Though I am not a Klein fan, at least he admitted to having a drinking problem and that he was going to work on it. To my knowledge, he never lied about it or made excuses for his poor behaviour. He looked sincere and rather rough. The result is that Albertans are willing to forgive him. This is more than I can say for that sack of @! Campbell who blatantly lied (made excuses) about how much he drank and instantly switched back and forth from uncontrolled crying to rigid and disciplined composure.

This was a CBC program, but it was some time ago. I do not think it was the most recent one (though I could be wrong). I do agree with you on one point Willy. When these issues of risk hit the media (Avian flu, BSE, SARS, flesh-eating etc), it is hard to know who to trust and what to think. In my opinion, however, gov't regulatory agencies (esp. BC) have lost a great deal of credibility.

When we are talking about unions, remember that we are not just talking about financial compensation, we are also talking about making the workplace safer. I am familiar with the coal industry in BC. Specifically, the same company has several unionized mines and one non-unionized mine. When fog settles in around the mountains and truck drivers (240-310 ton haulpacs) cannot see, guess who keeps driving in such unsafe conditions and guess who collectively stops driving? In the mining industry, people die terribly violent deaths. Funny how you hear about every street crime in society today, but when a guy is scooped up into a bag and pail because of unsafe working conditions, well, this is kept quiet and it is called an "accident" even though it was foreseeable and preventable. I would never work in a non-unionized mine 'cuz my life is worth a lot more to me than the $25/hr.

I watched a program on this some time back and never, ever seen anything as sick as that. Wonder why the supermarkets are dying salmon? It blows my mind how we keep obviously destroying our resources yet never change anything. Will entire sectors of the economy have to be totally destroyed? Have we not learned anything from the east coast experience?

Aww..c'mon IMR. You gotta admit that it is really fun to tell Easterners myths about the West. My brother from Ontario is coming out here this month and he is gonna be looking for accents, cowboy hats (and perhaps the odd horse drawn cart).

Might I ask what benefits are offered, specifically?

Willy, I would like to know what kinds of rights you believe a worker is entitled to, if any.

I wonder why we jump on government when it tries to regulate companies for the social good due to numerous complaints by fellow citizens, but few here seem to be concerned about the fact that companies can do as they please regardless of complaints (essentially forcing people to take crappy channels) in order to make $$? Why should I be forced to accept Jerry Springer in order to get David Suzuki? We should be more concerned about the fact that corporations (esp. cable and satellite) demonstrate a total disregard for peoples' views while government must, at the very least, listen to what we think. Why are people so quick to judge politicians but hey...companies can do whatever they want to? If you believe government should be moral, why not corporations? They both spend and waste our money.

http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smar...afety/event.cfm Agreed Caesar. I am putting a lot of faith in Mercedes when they claim that their little Smart car is just as safe as others. In fact, they crash test this golf cart with their larger models and claim it performs just as well as the larger models. I am seriously considering one even though my wife keeps laughing at me. She can keep laughing though, her Grand Prix has had about $10,000 worth of warranty work done and it is only six years old. http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smar...afety/index.cfm