BigAl

This is utter bullshit. THIS is why the justice system doesn't work -- I know it's supposed to be the best we've got and everything, but I know guys who have done harder time than this for selling POT. And meanwhile this white-collar cracker gets to spend seven months essentially on vacation (come on, minimum-security Canadian prisons? Scary!) and then be back out, no harm, no foul. Fuck him and fuck the people who have allowed this travesty of justice to happen. And, as usual, the average Canadian either doesn't even know about this, or else is too apathetic to jump up and down and scream about it. This is why we take it in the ass so often in this country. People should really care more about this than they seem to.

Hardening hearts and minds in preparation for what? Genocide? I'm sorry if I'm misreading you eyeball, but it sounds to me like you're suggesting we need to wipe these people off the planet if we're going to "win the war". But where does that stop? I mean -- this isn't WWII where the lines in the sand were pretty clearly drawn...this is a war against an Idea or Concept ("Terror") with no set parameters on who or what the enemy actually is -- should we just kill everything in the Middle East just to be safe? I'd love for you to clarify this point a little in case I'm overstepping.

Agreed M. Dancer -- it's better for certain people (like our man Mr. Canada) to keep their metaphorical mouths shut and let people think they're stupid, than to open them and remove all doubt.

I find your insights extremely educational. I am grateful that you took the time to respond so thoroughly and so intelligently on this topic. I will never understand what you and your fellow soldiers have had to see and endure -- and I suppose that's why you're doing it, so guys like me don't have to be in a position where they're exposed to it, and I'd like to make it perfectly clear that I have nothing but the deepest respect for all of you insofar as you're doing an unenviable job, and from what I have been lead to believe, for the most part you're doing it extremely well (i.e. Canada still has a pretty good international reputation even in the midst of armed conflict). I think if it had been you who started this thread (which was originally about an Army Captain accused of a crime, if we all remember that), I would have had far less abrasive things to say in response, because it sounds to me that even though you may share some of wulf's feelings, you have dealt with them in a far more productive and positive way -- and that, maybe more than anything else, takes real class and real balls in my opinion. Thanks again.

Absolutely! Most self-destructive, self-hating individuals throw gigantic, entertaining parades. You ought to see EMO Pride Day in Toronto! What utter nonsense.

Clearly. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I'd be careful of the structural integrity of your glass house there, Mr. Canada.

Thanks for your insights Army Guy -- I have a hell of a lot more respect for the opinions of a man in the field than of some chump behind a computer screen somewhere with a racist complex. Clearly, I recognize the implications of being "in the field", though I can't have any conception of what actually goes on out there being as I've never been in the situation. And I agree with your argument that this sort of mentality is necessary among troops in order to get the job done, so to speak. It just still bothers me on a bigger-picture level, that we still have to identify other humans as "the enemy". Idealistic, I'm well aware -- I guess the biggest problem is what happens when the war is over but the racist underpinnings continue? Quick example -- my dad is German in descent (his parents were immigrants); he was born in Canada thirteen years after the war ended, and yet he still got beaten up at school and his family was the target of localized racism (had their house spraypainted with swastikas, etc.)...my point is, do enemies stay enemies forever? I'd say that wulf42's mindset would promote that kind of intolerance from generation to generation. That's the part with which I take umbrage. But once again, thanks for bringing a new perspective to this issue.

All right, given I'm new here I'm willing to concede your point on peace-keeping (to be honest I tend to agree with your estimation of the term), and I would argue your point on whether or not money and support were lent to terrorists/freedom fighters/whatever during the Russian campaign (I didn't say Canada sent that support; the CIA definitely did) but the thrust of my point is that wulf's opinions on the situation is intensely racist and kind of scary. That whole "kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" mentality really rubs me the wrong way, you dig? I don't care what happens in war -- people are people and they have motivations that seem right to them. The winner determines whether history records those motivations as "right" or "wrong". I think it's a poor reflection on Canada for guys like wulf to go off spouting that kind of rhetoric. I know it's an emotionally-charged issue, but "scum" and "sub-human" aren't terms that really apply.

Keystone has nailed it right on the head, as far as I'm concerned. We hold ourselves to a higher standard in this country. That's the point I've been making all along -- whoever started this thread is a poor example of what it means to be Canadian. A medal for his service? I suppose you'd be in favour of opening another Guantanamo Bay-esque gulag on our soil too, you know, to house all the "animals". Jeepers.

I'm a moron for figuring that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter? Don't forget how much money got funnelled into Al Qaeda back when they were still fighting the Russians, bigot. Apparently they were the "good guys" back then. I'd love to hear your thoughts on what constitutes a human versus an animal -- or actually, what the difference even is between those two distinctions. Get an education.

...I don't have any problem with being a bilingual nation -- hell, if you want to come here and learn French, more power to you. I'm just saying if it were me moving to, say, China or something, I would sure as hell learn Mandarin or Cantonese, both for my own benefit and for the benefit of my new neighbours who probably don't speak my native language. And if your immigrants were of Native descent and they worked towards the Canada we all love now, that's awesome. As far as that point goes, I was simply trying to illustrate the inherent hypocrisy of the anti-immigration sentiment in Canada as it relates to the fact that many, many Canadian citizens are descendents of immigrants themselves. No harm, no foul, far as I'm concerned.

Annihilation is a strong word in any context. Surely we're beyond this at this point? I agree with kimmy -- the definition of success needs to be directly proportional to how well the citizens of Afghanistan are holding up.

For the win. Violence begets violence, every single time.

Holy shit dude. You find it surprising that you'd find humanitarian sentiment on a Canadian web forum? "These people are animals, can't be regarded as people, etc."? Are you fucking serious? I remember reading about points of view similar to yours in the history books...what were those people called, let me see -- oh yeah -- NAZIS. Or any other group of genocidal fuckheads the world has ever seen. Look, I respect our soldiers and I want them to come home as much as anybody else, but our country is in Afghanistan serving a peace-keeping role, and we have a very high standard in Canada as far as treatment of prisoners go. Should this soldier go to jail for 25 years? I don't think so. But your argument is actually weakening his case. We need to look at the case OUTSIDE psychotic racist sentiments like yours. Man. As far as I'm concerned, with opinions like those, you don't deserve to call yourself Canadian. Go join a KKK sect in Alabama or something.

I'd take it a step further and say that the current culture in Canada (and indeed in North America) was ENTIRELY built by immigrants -- witness the marginalization of the Native people of this continent. I am totally in support of talented, educated people coming to this country in order to help us build a new future. The one and only thing I ask -- and forgive me if this sounds "racist" -- is that if you're an immigrant looking to work in public services, please make an effort to learn the language. If you already do, awesome. If you don't -- come on man, it's English -- learn it on your lunchbreak or something. I'm just saying if I moved to a non-English speaking country I would do my damndest to learn the native language as quickly and efficiently as possible. It's not as though we don't have hundreds of services in place to facilitate this.

There are two sides to this equation. First: freedom of speech. Good idea, clearly, and one of the tenets on which this culture has been built. And one bad apple can easily spoil the barrel as far as party loyalties are concerned -- history has shown us that fundamentalists and nut jobs can appear and throw their tacit support behind all kinds of initiatives (i.e. the KKK or the Hell's Angels -- anybody faulting a party because psychotic white supremacists and drug-dealing bikers support their platform?). That said, it's been said cowards hide behind freedom. Freedom of speech is a great thing, but people need to be educated to the point where they can weed out fundamentalist rhetoric -- the chaff from the wheat, as it were -- but it's an individual responsibility to do so. There will always be people who will voice Neanderthalic ideals under the umbrella of "freedom of speech"...we just need to be on the watch for it personally.

As unfortunate as it sounds, you're absolutely right. There is no feasible reason to bring back the Arrow program at this point in time, partially due to the dated technology involved (though it could be argued we might re-start the program using updated tech) but mostly because the political landscape of the world has changed to the point that a fleet of mid-range fighter/interceptors would be limited in its usefulness for a country dedicated to peacekeeping operations and has little to fear in the way of conventional assault on our soil. Nice idea, and I agree the Diefenbaker administration dropped the ball in a big way back in the day, but it's a bit too late for the woolly mammoth.