willy

I am proud of the Reform movement that Preston created. In 1993 the slogan was "the west wants in." The Reform party never intended on being as successful as it was. When they formed official opposition the party needed to change form a regional party to an opposition party. The alienation of the west and the discontent with the old parties was a very real thing out west and for good reason. Just look at the corruption around such issues as the sponsorship scandal today. The party that you see today is the coming together of the old coalitions that made up the PC's before 88. The big difference is that they have the advantage of taking on some very positive aspects of the Reform policy (that Harper developed as Manning strategist). - improve accountability of MPs - be fiscally responsible (would the Liberals have moved on the debt if not for the Reform party) - grass roots democracy Many of the posters on here are not exactly what I would call swing voters eh biggunner. The NDPers must really hate, the fact that we have 100 seats.

I did not dismiss French. I stated a fact, it is the fifth or sixth language spoken in western Canada. Harper speaking French and working hard to gain a foothold in Quebec is not dismissive. To be a national party that represents all regions, French Canadians need to be part of the party. I look forward to seeing the growth of the party in all areas of the country. IMO, Federal money spent on Chinese in Vancouver would be a greater expression on the resident’s needs where I live than the guarantee of service and resources delivered in French. The question as I pointed out early knn, is your tolerance wide enough to accept people like me. I am happy to have a government that protects the rights and freedoms of gay/lesbians, ethnic backgrounds, and religious beliefs. I look forward to a pluralistic culture of tolerance and not a secular culture of exclusion. What about you, can Muslims, Jews and Christians hold devout beliefs or should they just keep them to themselves?

knn, I wont try and argue all these. I will only point out a couple. This is not an intolerant or racist statement. As a western Canadian, we have many languages spoken and I can't remember the last time I heard French being spoken in the streets of Vancouver. Harper on the other hand is working very hard at speaking French and is holding the convention in Montreal to build a better representation in the party of French speeking Canadians. The fact that the more programs the Liberals put in place the worse off the Atlantic provinces have been is all that was intended by this very aged statement. To spin it as something else is only political opportunism that was repeated many times during the election. ________________________________________ I don't know the context of many of the statements referring to homosexuals. Some of them are unfortunate. I would suggest that men like Preston Manning don't have a hateful bone in their body. It would be unfortunate if you would be pulling these out of context. Many of these people are devote Christians and this does effect there personal view. How would they approach policy? Current stand on SSM (only because 90% of these comments were addressed at gays and lesbians and I must say some of these comments are 10 years old): Conservative Position: We should have same sex unions where all benefits be extended to gays and lesbian couples. The definition of the word marriage will continue to be a man and women. IMO, this is not discriminatory as it only recognizes the unique relationship that only a man and a women can have, producing children and ideally this should be done in life long commitments. In other words marriage.

Okay you use a story that is a year old and quote Sinclar. That was not an election promise it was the budget. Press release

What votes and which minorities? They haven't and that's a fact. I have no burden and that's my point. Being a fiscal and social conservative is alright by me. I do remember two Liberals that have made racist remarks in the last two years, Heddy Fry and Eleanor Capelin. I consider being called a racist vilifying when their is no substance to the accusation.

knn, the Conservatives are people not an entity. They are people like me. It is a shame when I hold the views I do that you must vilify and make me out as hateful. I would suggest that the closed mind you show to opinions like mine speaks more of yourself than it does of me. I appreciate everyone’s opportunity to promote there ideas and I support left thinking people in their right to fight for their ideals. It is a shame the same belief does not go both ways.

Thanks to the BC Liberals. Lowest unemployment in Canada. Ceasar, We don't have the highest cost of living. Please do a little research before you post. Our medical premiums were just reduced for lower income people. Not to mention the wage level at which no taxes will be paid was Doubled. Just stop for a second. Have you ever knowen a mine worker or oil field worker not to make very good money. Where did you get this junk. Please provide a link.

Jealousy is real? Is it possible that this alone may be a good reason not to swing? Consenting does not demonstrate the emotional reality of the participants. That is only the behavior. I would be interested to know how the participants feel the next day, and how they feel about themselves. I have no data on this and I am too lazy to look it up, but I would put money that the average swing couple has a statistically significantly higher chance of divorce.

Grantler, I will try an not be condescending, as you think you hold exclusive knowledge and yet you do not. August has a better memory of history than I do. I have seen him demonstrate it on many occasions. I do not always agree with his point of view but I would never accuse him of not being thoughtful. As for myself, all I can say is you missed the point completely. The Liberals have been very effective in painting the Conservative Party intolerant, racist and exclusive. The point... All political parties have individuals and histories that don't put them in a good light. This is not exclusive to one or the other. Note even the icon of the NDP/CCF Tommy Douglas has some horribly outdated views on women and minority rights. Parties do not live in a vacuum of information where they define their reputation; the other parties actively work on defining the competition. The Liberals have done a very good job of this. To be critical of my own affiliation for a moment the Conservative/Alliance/Reformers have never been able to stay on message. I have witnessed the intention of policy, plans and messaging only to see it spun into a mess that can be quite embarrassing. This is not a complaint; it is just a reality of politics. Conservatives will need to be more unified and stay on message if we ever want to form government.

Who? Name one person. You can't use Lord because going into the leadership race he was neck deep in a controversy over insurance premiums increasing. If I remember Day was also young and bilingual and look how he turned out. He is and was the best man for the job. I can also tell you in the next election if his competition is the same two there now he will do just fine.

Be clear, the job he is going for is PM. The track record of this and the last PM is not good for sending clear and positive messages. Example PMPM yesturday: Occupation of Lebanon Sometimes you don't have to be perfect, just better than the oppositon.

Can I return the complement, if you had half a brain you would recognize the limitations of defining political parties based on left/right descriptions. The BC Liberals are a coalition of both federal Conservatives and federal Liberals. Makes for an interesting mix but they have held it together. IMO, Campbell is no Klien or Harris. ______________________________________ CN has purchased 600 new rail cars. They have improved efficiency on every run by 20%. As an economic engine they are doing a great job. The dividend we will get out of this deal is a well run railway and improved transportation. The second benefit will be the private investment in our transportation system. This system that moves not only coal but timber to the expanded ports on the north coast and in the lower mainland. The ability for these industries to take advantage of the Asian markets will pay a lot more than the yearly profits of one business. Oh ya and CN paid $1 billion to the province for the honour of improving our economic competitiveness.

August1991, said more eloquently than me. That is what I was trying to get at. Thanks for the articulation.

Left, Center, and Right are relative terms. If I am an Alberta Conservative, the BC Liberals look Center/left. If I am a BC NDPer the BC Liberals are extreme right. Caesar, you have made many accusations about the BC Liberals being involved in illegal activity. Two aids and a civil servant have been tied to illegal behaviour. The aids were accused of influence peddling and the influence wasn't enough as the group they represented didn't win the contract with BC Rail. The civil servant had a drug problem and when he was caught selling drugs he was already on leave. The political body of the BC Liberal party still is clean. Or are you Kenith Star? An aside, CN has cut 2 days for rail travel for goods going to Chicago. That represents a real economic benefit from the sale of BC Rail. And to be clear the rail lines are still owned by a crown corporation, and the operation of the railway was leased.

What is your point?

The separation of Church and state occurred not to protect the state but to protect the church. IMO, The instance of SSM, is a good example of where we should uncouple marriage from the state. The state should deal with contracts but not relationships. The church should deal with marriage. If there is a debate about definition it should happen within the denominations and traditions. The government has no place in sanctifying relationships, and the church can not expect the government to uphold religious beliefs. This may be a good rant but in practical application we will have the government hands on marriage for a long time to come and I will confess as long as that is the case SSM will come to be and if it is a government institution SSM should be a reality.

Be so bold to provide an example. Harper is an academic and a policy wank. He may not be camera friendly but he is strong on intellect. Caesar, we all make mistakes. That was my only point and all the parties are not exempt. The questions is, are the Liberal mistakes criminal and is the whole NDP ideology a mistake.

I have and it is all good. 6% unemployment compared to 11% when they entered government. We now have the highest average wage in Canada in BC. We have the lowest personal income tax rate for people who make less than $80 thousand in Canada. They did all this after 911, Softwood tariffs, BSE, Sars, Avian Flu, Wild Fires and massive floods. The future looks bright.

This is not a smoking gun. In context, this statement is of little consequence. Me thinks knn and a few others on this forum just really don't like us Conservatives. That's okay but hey we will make much bigger gaffs than this so please Chicken Little the sky is not falling yet. My guess is that Harper will not take strong positions on many issues until after the membership has had a kick at the can in Montreal. One last little thing, if you really think he is an idiot be careful because he might surprise you. This guy has navigated a party that was at 12% two years ago into 99 seats. Don't hate us if you aint us.

So what exactly did he say? I found it. Do you see an inaccracy here? They were Liberal governments.

I find it curious. We may have invaded but our boats are all in dry dock and we don't have any planes. But really, aside from SSM where does our government stand on anything. After watching Dion on CBC last night I wonder if anyone can even communicate in cabinet.

Wow, our PM PM is now famous world wide for his mumbles, indecision and double talk. CBC news

I am not going to bother refuting or unspinning this pile of stuff but let’s look at credibility. Today the government tabled a budget that showed last years 2 billion surplus the most in our provinces history and the next years budget shows another 2 billion surplus.

If I had to listen to Joy every day I would limit it as well.

This issue is not my priority. I would leave it the way it is and just extend a new legal right to gays and lesbians to include a legal union. Families have many challenges these days economic, and social. Poverty, drug and alcoholism, abuse, divorce ect. How we address these issues is probably best suited for another thread. I think it is safe to say regardless of political ideology no one likes to see pain and suffering. The challenge is how to best do something about it.