tango
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Posts posted by tango
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Well, apparantly Tim Horton's has withdrawn its funding (in the form of product) from an event countering gay marriage.1 Whether funds from crown or corporation, if its okay to pull them from one side then its okay to pull them from the other, too.
So ... let us know when there's an event opposing hetero marriage, and we'll make sure Tim's isn't at that one either.
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Guilty of what? He has not yet been charged with a crime. What crime are you thinking he is guilty of? I don't agree at all with the way he has conducted his "business" but I'm not yet aware of any crime that he could be "guilty" of.
I believe it had something to do with being paid kickbacks (bribes) for contracts when he was Prime Minister.
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CBC Radio (BC) had a blurb about this dump-site this morning. Seems like a very dumb thing to do no matter how you slice it.
You know, it's funny that the normal political differences among people here (except geoffry from Calgary who doesn't give a hoot about Ontario
) ... and in Simcoe County ... don't seem to matter on this issue: Everyone seems to agree that it's a lousy idea. Nonetheless, Simcoe County Council approved it, construction is going ahead, and an interim injunction against the protesters resulted in 10 arrests last week. All kinds of support are needed.
Dumpsite 41 on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...1%22&page=2
If you are near TORONTO ...
WHAT No Water to Waste: August 13
Why is Simcoe County building a dump site on pristine water?
WHEN Thursday, Aug 13th 7pm
WHERE U of Toronto Medical Sciences Building, Macleod Auditorium Room 2158
Entr off Kings College Circle [College St], Queens Park Circle [subway]
WHY Find out why , how to stop environmental destruction of water sources
Why has Dump Site 41 been so controversial
CONTACT
Mark Calzavara Regional Organizer, Organisateur régional, Ontario/Québec
The Council of Canadians 210-116 Spadina Ave Toronto, ON M5V 2K6
(416) 979-5554 1-800-208-7156 (416) 979-5554 1-800-208-7156
"the largest ongoing protest in Canada in recent years over an environmental issue."
Martin Mittelstaedt, The Globe and Mail, July 13, 2009
SPEAKERS
Dale Goldhawk 740 AM GoldHawk Fights Back Emcee
David Crombie Former Toronto mayor, former federal cabinet minister
Sandy Hudson University of Toronto Student Union President
Meera Karunananthan Council of Canadians Water Campaigner
David Ladell Federation of Tiny Township Cottager Associations (FTTSA)
Vicki Monague The Anishinabe Women, Keepers of the Water from Christian Island
Mary Muter Georgian Baykeeper for Georgian Bay Forever
Stephen Ogden Resident of Simcoe Cty, Community Monitoring Committee for Site 41
A special invitation for municipal councillors of Simcoe County and their advisors
is extended
Jonathon Shore Media for the DS 41 Coalition T 705-361-2371
http://twitter.com/stopdumpsite41
http://www.canadians.org/water/issues/Site41/index.html
our songhttp://www.barrieadvance.com/barrieadvance/article/141191 30+ local coverages
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If you are near BARRIE ...
Thursday August 13, 2009, 9:30 a.m.
Superior Court of Justice, 114 Worsley Street, Barrie
Hearing on injunction Concerning Dump Site 41 set for Thursday morning
Simcoe County Director of Environmental Services and Clerk expected to be cross examined
BARRIE August 11---An injunction limiting protest concerning Dump Site 41 was imposed on July
22, 2009. On August 13 and 14 2009, lawyers representing First nations protestor Vicki Monague will appear in the Superior Court of Justice, Barrie Courthouse at 9:30 am to present evidence and make argument that the injunction be lifted.
Monague's lawyers will argue that Simcoe County has behaved improperly by refusing to give the Community Monitoring Committee [CMC] the "calibrated model" that it sought in order to be able to independently evaluate the hydrogeological report that formed the basis for the approval of the construction of the dump site.
They will also argue that it was improper of the County to proceed with construction
without a motion clearly authorising the work.
In addition, it will be argued that there was a lack of the required consultation with First Nations peoples.
On Thursday August 13, it is expected that Monague's lawyers will cross examine Rob McCullough, Simcoe County's Director of Environmental Services, and Glen Knox, Clerk of the County of Simcoe. Lawyers reresenting Simcoe County are expected to cross examine Vicki Monague, Community Monitoring Committee member Steve Ogden, and Jeffrey Monague,the former Chief of the Beausoleil First Nation.
---30---
Contact:
Jonathon Shore media, T 705-361-2371 [email protected]
County of Simcoe http://www.county.simcoe.on.ca/index.htm
Beausoleil First Nation http://www.chimnissing.ca/
Community Monitoring Committee http://tiny.cc/qd3If
Mod Flow model / what is it http://tiny.cc/z55cI
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Toronto sends 75 truckloads a day to Michigan, down from 142, and has a dump outside of London acquired a few years ago.
Half of Toronto's population lives in multiple housing, and recycling in apt buildings is spotty at best. When I lived there, the super said they just didn't have the space. The day after it was picked up, the few containers were overflowing again.
Most offices recycle paper, but beyond that it's spotty as well.
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Nader visit boosts morale
SITE 41
Posted By Douglas Glynn
Posted 5 hours ago
ELMVALE — U.S. consumer advocate and environmental activist Ralph Nader yesterday called for a one-year moratorium on construction of dump Site 41.
“There’s just too much at stake to begin the process of putting putrid waste over pristine water that is part of an aquifer that extends many kilometres,” he said during a surprise visit to the protesters’ camp opposite the landfill site on the 2nd concession of Tiny Township.
The former U.S. presidential candidate’s unannounced visit boosted morale among protesters, some of whom continued to sit in front of one of the two entrances.
Well, it appears that dump site 41 is becoming an international cause.
I wonder when Obama's coming ...
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This government has left the taxpayer so broke only 20% of retired will have a solid pension or savings so all 80% need to be subsidized and this is all the governments fault. It has all to do with conservitives, Liberal, NDP whatever other shit party we have they all sold the people out and have done nothing to this day to secure anyones future but maybe the elite 20%. They sell jobs to the cheapest bidder being china, mexico even ship bitumen at .01$ barrel from Alberta. WTF? And the plan is to rid the middle class and the only way we can stop it is to start voting independant
What does that have to do with health care?
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True. And there's also a cap on our use of Trudeau International Airport - we can't go there more than 365 days in a year.
Tango, I am not disputing how we use the system. I am disputing how we contribute to it.
Our income tax system is designed so that people like Paul Desmarais pay/contribute a heck of alot more (alot more) than you or I. But our EI and CPP/RRQ systems are different: Desmarais pays/contributes the same amount as I do. Our EI/CPP/RRQ contributions amount to a tax system in which you, I and Paul Desmarais all pay about $3000. It's a head tax.
IF EI/CPP/RRQ were small amounts, like parking tickets, I could live with it. But EI/CPP/RRQ contributions are not small amounts. Take a look at your pay slip.
Ordinary Canadians, people earning less than $30,000 annually (to pick an arbitrary number), should not make EI/CPP/RRQ contributions. People like Desmarais should give more, as they do through income tax.
Everyone who is employed contributes, in proportion to their earnings, up to the 'maximum insurable earnings', which is linked to the maximum payout.
Your complaint is pretty petty, imo.
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I will.
Bon voyage!
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True. And there's also a cap on our use of Trudeau International Airport - we can't go there more than 365 days in a year.
Tango, I am not disputing how we use the system. I am disputing how we contribute to it.
Our income tax system is designed so that people like Paul Desmarais pay/contribute a heck of alot more (alot more) than you or I. But our EI and CPP/RRQ systems are different: Desmarais pays/contributes the same amount as I do. Our EI/CPP/RRQ contributions amount to a tax system in which you, I and Paul Desmarais all pay about $3000. It's a head tax.
IF EI/CPP/RRQ were small amounts, like parking tickets, I could live with it. But EI/CPP/RRQ contributions are not small amounts. Take a look at your pay slip.
Ordinary Canadians, people earning less than $30,000 annually (to pick an arbitrary number), should not make EI/CPP/RRQ contributions. People like Desmarais should give more, as they do through income tax.
bfd
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But what if you don't ?? ......20% of the population consumes 80% of health care resources.
Yes ... the elderly ... and we'll all be there someday, so don't knock it.
But like I said ... we can arrange to 'euthanase' you if you don't want to use that share.
Like Your Health Insurance? Maybe You Shouldn't.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9081100048.html
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Sexually is the last of our concerns when it comes to surviving as a society. Some how we are attracted to the kink factor - when we should be focused on feeding the hungry and creating a just society - gay shamay --- I don't want to hear anymore about Gay this and that - lets talk about how more money is spent on pets than poor children..that's a real issue - not about what freak is sodomizing some other lazy socially inept hedonistic jerk.
Oleg, you are being a freaking pig again. Go to another thread if you aren't capable of being civil.
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Curbing greed? Socialists are the most generous people I know - with other people's money!
Corporatists are the greediest people I know ... with other people's money.
Corporate welfare for the rich sucks more public money than health care, welfare, disability, CPP, EI and all other 'social' programs combined.
And still they complain.
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Absolutely. Of course, I'd also expect not to pay the tax/contributions associated with those programs.
move south.
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I'm not quibbling about the amount Desmarais or I would receive from EI if we were to become unemployed.
I disagree that Desmarais and I both contribute the same to EI. When it comes to income tax, Paul Desmarais pays a heck of alot more than I do. But when it comes to EI, we pay exactly the same. Why?
Because there's a cap on what you can receive from EI.
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Depends on who you are. If you are a healthy, wealthy, productive, citizen, you are being ripped off. If you are a drug-addicted, lazy, homeless, bum, you are getting an amazing deal.
"drug-addicted,... homeless" people don't use much health care. They avoid all institutions of the state.
Disabled people do. Elderly people do.
Ya, it's a really good deal for those who need it most, and that's the way it's intended to be.
You, on the other hand, will certainly never need your share. I mean, no drunk driver is ever going to disable you, or you are never going to fall off a ladder or get cancer because you are too healthy, wealthy and wise, eh? [/sarcasm]
Just make sure you never do because we have your number and it's been marked as one who doesn't want to be a burden to others so we'll just 'euthanase' you if you ever need health care, k?
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If you figure out all the money in taxes (millions) you pay into healthcare in your life time and what you actually use your being ripped off.
No you're not. Do the math and get back to us.
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You can't call something a hate crime just because someome beats someone else up and uses a racial slur. When people have a disagreement and it comes to blows, there is obviously a lot of adrenaline and anger flowing, which can lead to saying things in the heat of the moment.
For example, if some heavy set guy tries to pick up my girlfriend in front of me, then i say - "hey man, this is my girl friend" and essentially tell him to take a hike, then if he persists and it gets heated and eventually turns into a fist fight, then while beating the piss out of him I call him a "fatso", that doesn't mean I beat him up just because he's fat. There are other circumstances at play and the "fat" comment was merely a by-product.
Not so in the Courtenay case. There was no other circumstance. Maybe you'd better read the article again.
Are you so sure a judge can't make those distinctions? That's their job.
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QUOTE (JerrySeinfeld @ Aug 9 2009, 07:19 PM) *
Theier entire existence is based around the principal that someone else has more than they do. They are jealous and elect governments who will steal from others and give to them so that they too can have something. But mostly, it's about bringing down the successful.
IOW, in your mind, socialism is about envy.After long reflection, I have come to the unoriginal conclusion that socialism is about control. Socialists want to control people.
So August and Jerry ... interested in giving up your socialist health card and your socialist CPP are you?
Socialism is about curbing greed. It's good for you.
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Creeeeeeeepy stuff!
What's shocking is that these two brave souls are speaking out.
Kudos to them!
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Simcoe North MPP Garfield Dunlop is demanding to know who authorized a legal action aimed at opponents of a controversial dump.
“What I am questioning is, who gave county council, county staff and the county warden permission or the authority to move ahead with court action against the protestors?” Dunlop said this week. “Anyone I have spoken with on county council tells me they were never asked to make a decision to take the protestors to court.”
Looks like the Warden pulled a fast one on Council and got the injunction and caused the arrests without their input.
http://www.simcoe.com/article/142555
Two protestors have been named in a lawsuit mounted by the county, which is said to be seeking at least $160,000 in connection with a blockade at the site.
That, too, has raised questions in Dunlop’s mind.
“The county council has that authority, if in fact they know about (the decision to sue), but it was a surprise to everyone,” he added. “I asked a number of them and none of them knew anything about it. Who is running the show?
“Site 41 is a mistake,” he added. “At some point, the county and the ministry have to wake up to that fact. Our job (as politicians) is to listen to the people. They aren’t doing that despite the growing opposition to the impact this landfill will have on a vital water supply.”
Dunlop noted the protestors have called for a one-year moratorium on work at the site, saying the group is urging county council to vote on their request at its Aug. 25 meeting.
“I hope county council members also raise the question at their meeting about who authorized court action against Site 41 protestors,” he added.
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Well, I haven't kept this thread up to date very well, but there are serious developments. Simcoe County Council - aka Town of Springwater - has an interim injunction against the protesters to prevent them from blocking access to the site, which they have been doing. 10 people have been arrested, even some who have never blocked the entrance but are leaders of the protest, 2 of them relatives of mine. The OPP has a hit list.
Why did the OPP arrest people based on the interim injunction and not wait for the permanent one, in court today? I don't know, but it was a decision of 'the Crown', ie, the Attorney General [email protected]
http://www.midlandfreepress.com/ArticleDis....aspx?e=1692347
Simcoe County workers – accompanied by a contingent of Ontario Provincial Police – arrived in the late afternoon to clear chairs, tents and other items from in front of the gates and re-enter the landfill.
By Saturday morning, 10 people had been charged with mischief (blocking access to property). Three of them face an additional charge of intimidation (blocking or obstructing a highway). The count is expected to get much higher as police target those on a list complied since the blockade began in early July.
The first arrests came Thursday when Keith Wood, 82, and his wife, Ina, 76, went to the Southern Georgian Bay OPP detachment and were each charged with mischief. They were released after signing an undertaking to stay away from the dump on the 2nd concession of Tiny Township.
Also charged Thursday were Barbara Hunt, 69; Bob Ritchie, 67, and his daughter, Anne Ritchie Nahuis, 39. Hunt was released after signing an undertaking to stay a kilometer away from the site, but Ritchie and Nahuis were both placed in jail cells when they refused to sign.
Ritchie was released a short while later because of his health, but Nahuis was held overnight and appeared at a bail hearing in a Barrie court Friday morning. She was remanded to Sept. 17, released and ordered not to be in front of the Site 41 entrances. However, she is allowed to be on the 2nd concession.
Mohawk environmentalist Danny Beaton, 54 – who last winter walked from Site 41 to Toronto to protest against the dump – was arrested Thursday night at one of the entrances. He was also taken to Barrie court for a bail hearing Friday. He was remanded until Monday and sent to the Super Jail in Penetanguishene for the weekend.
Gavin Jamieson, 20, was also arrested Thursday night at the home of a relative. He was charged with mischief and released after signing an undertaking not to be near the site.
Vicki Monague, 28, of Christian Island, surrendered to the OPP on Friday and was charged with mischief for protesting at Site 41. She, too, signed an undertaking.
Early Saturday, OPP arrested Beth Elson, 50, of Christian Island and charged her with one count of mischief and one count of intimidation. She was released and is prohibited from returning to the site.
John Hawk, 35, of Christian Island was charged a week ago in connection with the blockade.
Monague is one of the women from the Beausoleil First Nation that established the protest campsite in a farmer's field opposite the main gates of Site 41 in May.
She is expected to appear in Barrie Superior Court tomorrow [today] with her lawyers to argue that the construction of the landfill must stop until First Nations have been consulted about the impacts to their traditional lands as required under Canadian law.
The county’s application for a permanent injunction is also scheduled to be heard tomorrow [today] in Barrie.
I'm waiting for the outcome of today's court, and will post when I can.
Recent legal precedents relevant to this case:
Environmental Group Granted Leave to Appeal to Supreme Court of Canada
Re: Red Chris mine in BC, but relevant to all industries and all of Canada, when it is in the Supreme Court
“The Supreme Court has recognized the importance of environmental protection, and specifically the importance of public participation in the environmental assessment process, in deciding to hear this case,” said Jamie Kneen, Communications Coordinator for MiningWatch Canada. “Huge projects like this, with significant environmental impacts, are not supposed to proceed without public involvement.”
He's referring to the Red Chris mine in BC, not dump site 41 in Ontario, but the implication for case law is already there in the Supreme Court.
Dump site 41 in Ontario threatens not just the immediately surrounding farmers. It affects southern Ontario from Georgian Bay through the cleansing of the Oak Ridge Moraine to Lake Ontario, because it is on the Alliston aquifer where we all get our clean water.
And ...
Frontenac Ventures v Ardoch Algonquins
http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/decisions/2...008ONCA0534.pdf
July 7, 2008
[48]
Where a requested injunction is intended to create “a protest-free zone” for contentious private activity that affects asserted aboriginal or treaty rights, the court must be very careful to ensure that, in the context of the dispute before it, the Crown has fully and faithfully discharged its duty to consult with the affected First Nations: see Julia E. Lawn, “The John Doe Injunction in Mass Protest Cases” (1998) 56 U.T. Fac. L. Rev. 101. The court must further be satisfied that every effort has been exhausted to obtain a negotiated or legislated solution to the dispute before it. Good faith on both sides is required in this process: Haida Nation, p. 532.
And in Brantford, the City seeks a permanent injunction against Six Nations. However, the judge did not yet grant the injunction but ordered consultation:
Brantford v. Montour, etc.
CV-08-334 March 20, 2009
"[4] This court further orders that Ontario ... initiate, arrange and commence meaningful consultation, negotiation, accommodation and reconciliation among the competing rights and interests of the City of Brantford, the Haudenosaunee people and itself."
www.ontariocourts.on.ca
Tony Guergis, turncoat Warden of Springwater ... well, he won't survive next year's elections so a moratorium on construction of the dump until after the municipal elections is definitely in order.
The Council of Canadians has a lawsuit to that effect ready, but the Council of Springwater/Simcoe County has chosen to take a vote on a moratorium itself Aug 25.
You can email them your opinions:
[email protected],[email protected],[email protected], [email protected],[email protected],[email protected], [email protected],[email protected],[email protected],
[email protected],[email protected],[email protected], [email protected], [email protected],[email protected],[email protected], [email protected],[email protected], [email protected], [email protected],[email protected], [email protected], [email protected],[email protected],[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
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I would not expect that, it's too simple a model. Another way to look at it could be, if 90% of the people who committed rape are from the poor or lowest educated parts of society, and blacks comprise 50% of that... you now have a fundamentally different demographic. Theres many ways to analyze the data and draw conclusions, some can be quite misleading.
In other words, there's lies, damn lies and theres statistics. And then there's your posts...
The stats were posted by 'lictor616' (the guardian of the pope or of the devil, depending on your interpretation) to support his claim of an epidemic of black men sexually assaulting white women. However, the stats do not show that at all.
What the numbers show is that the 'epidemic', if there is one, is white men sexually assaulting white women.
The unjustified racist intent of lictor616's op is exposed as a fraud.
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But you touched on a big parrt of my point: cotrary to what the common wisdom is, in fact it appears it is socialism, not capitalism, that is really about greed. Because it is those who espouse it that end up benefitting.
And capitalists don't?
And can we call a halt to the dichotomization? categorizing and labelling people?
We are some of both, and the constant tension maintains the necessary balance.
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Economic Left: -5.38
Social Libertarian: -4.67
Interesting that the 'righter' options were about global corporate control, the antithesis of a free market.
Why Our Soldiers Fight!
in The Rest of the World
Posted · Edited by tango
We are very proud of our soldiers and the work they do to help the Afghan people. The problem comes when we feel that we, and the soldiers, are being used to further a corporate agenda that has nothing to do with freedom of peoples and in fact works against that.
For example, the 'government' put in place in Afghanistan through US intervention ... It's my understanding and belief that this is not a government 'of the people', but puppets chosen to further the US corporate hegemony.
These are the issues we struggle with: Even if our soldiers are successful, will their wishes for the Afghan people ever be realized? Are we just engaged in rescuing the people from oppression by the Taliban, and exchanging that for oppression by foreign corporations that will oppress strip Afghanistan of its resources and only do further damage to their lives?
Perhaps it's about Canadians finally coming of age and doffing the rose tinted glasses. Perhaps we just don't trust our politicians anymore, because we see the environmental and human devastation all around us that unfettered corporate control has caused here in our own land. (Eg, See thread on 'dump site 41')
We feel strongly about supporting our troops, and perhaps this deadly Afghan mission is the one that finally made us look deeper into the role played by our own governments in oppressing other countries, as well as our own, to serve corporate greed.
It's not a soldier's job to question the mission. It used to be that it wasn't considered appropriate for us, the people, to question such decisions either but only to blindly 'rally round the flag' in support.
However, it is our job to ask those hard questions because ultimately we are the ones putting our soldiers in harm's way. We must be sure that the results will be worthy of the efforts of our soldiers, because we know they are giving everything they've got in the belief that the mission is honourable.
We have to make sure it is honourable, for their sakes.
It's difficult to get across, perhaps, but when we appear to struggle against the mission by questioning, protesting, etc, we are in fact fighting for the safety and honour of our soldiers.
The same people who question the mission are those who are appalled and protested loudly, for example, when our soldiers were sent to a desert in bush fatigues.
We are strong, perhaps the strongest, supporters of our soldiers because we question the leaders motives and actions that put our soldiers at risk.
I hope that makes some sense, army guy, because we care very much.