tango
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Posts posted by tango
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Since when do we support taking the law into ones' own hands?
The article said that Sheppard caught up to the car ON FOOT.
Conceding that Sheppard probably had violent intention is the first candid comment you've made here IMO.
People here are arguing that Bryant was wrong for attempting to escape a physical altercation with a younger, stronger, drunk, violent man.
-k
I'm not conceding it, and I don't believe he did. NONE of the witnesses said Sheppard tried to hit Bryant. They clearly identified Bryant as the one yelling angrily. I'm saying the obvious, that Bryant would have been better off to take his chances, if that's what he was so darned panicked about. There were people all over the place. One punch would have been a much better outcome, and I hope Bryant is realizing that now.
I doubt that even was Sheppard's intent, though: I think he just wanted Bryant to pay for the damage he did to the bike. Hitting him wouldn't accomplish that.
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QUOTE (WestViking @ Sep 3 2009, 12:26 AM) *
Many Canadians are still not sure that democracy is working.
Frankly, they're idiots who need a civics lesson.We should always question. That's our democratic duty.
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Is this some sort of attempt at parody? Or are you being serious?
If I was the sort of person who went around speculating at random that someone might be involved in drugs, I'd suspect you're high right now.
-k
There are other reasons why one gets beaten up than 'being white'.
My point is ... do we know?
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And here a century after that it seems everyone has forgotten Vimy. Which is really depressing.
Not here. There's a commemoration every year - Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.
Only one vet left now, but he couldn't make it this year.
I've seen the history short several times on tv this week.
The French couldn't take it.
The British couldn't take it.
The Canucks took it!
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I think there's a clue here:
It would appear that forms of political organization in Canada which have been thought of as growing out of the political experience of her population have actually represented an effort to hold in check the kind of political developments which that experience engendered. Responsible government developed in reaction rather than in response to the true democratic spirit of the Canadian people. [26]The validity of this novel interpretation would depend directly on convincing proof that the rebellion had widespread support. Thus, Clark argues that the revolt was popular, but mismanaged:
... it was clear to perhaps all but the smugly righteous lieutenant governor that the province had only narrowly escaped a much more serious uprising. The battle north of Toronto was already under way before the vast majority of Upper Canadians had any hint that a rebellion was contemplated. With no immediate objects to attack local uprisings could not readily develop. Time was too short to muster in support of the larger rebel force. The result, in effect, was a running for cover on the part of many of those throughout the province who had most closely identified themselves with the reform cause." [27]1837 was a major turning point in our history since it seems to have marked the end of ideological clash. The value systems of the Family Compact and the Mackenzie rebels could not be reconciled in the contemporary political context. One rather unnoticed outcome of the rebellion was that not only were the rebels defeated, the Compact did not survive.Canadians, after this episode, gave up extreme opinions, and in the 1840s R. B. Sullivan and W. H. Merritt, former Tories, could find common ground with Robert Baldwin, the Reformer.A broad stream of opinion, seeking the middle way, has dominated our political life ever since.Extreme opinion has found no home except for third party movements which have been relatively ineffectual. Perhaps, after all, the early whigs were right. The rebellion was a necessary step, but just so it was unsuccessful.The shock of revolt changed the course of constitutional development. Its failure allowed that development to take place within the British tradition.http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/transactions/3/rebellion1837.shtml
The formation of the Dominion of Canada was (and is) a compromise ... a bone offered to quell rebellion, rather than arising from a popular revolution ... not too exciting ... and still the same today.
In fact, Canada didn't believe in itself until Vimy Ridge, imo.
And the most revolutionary thing we've done is ... universal health care.
It ain't all bad!
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He could have taken the license of the vehicle and reported the incident to police.
You were making a joke weren't you? The police are not going to do anything about a bent bike. Couriers have learned to get the money up front. It's a common problem for them, and a common solution to demand the money. Bryant would know that.
He could have let go when the vehicle was moving much slower.It never was going slow. Bryant floored it and his tires were squealing all the way across Bloor, with the guy hanging on, shoes making sparks on the pavement.
I used to like Bryant, arrogant puppy that he is, but this is truly sick, imo.
How could anyone do that to a person?
There was help available.
You can't kill someone just because he *might* punch you.
Don't worry: Bryant will get off with a slap on the wrist ... but he shouldn't.
He got to spend a night in jail, anyway.
I'll bet he's wishing today that he had just taken a punch instead, and given the guy the money for a new wheel.
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“I find that the claimant would stand out like a ‘sore thumb’ due to his colour in any part of the country,” tribunal panel chair William Davis said in his decision to grant Huntley refugee status.
How does he know that ... "in any part of the country". I think the panel went a little overboard with their comments.
Lookit mrcan jumpin all over hisself to welcome immigrants ... as long as they are WHITE (and preferably racist).
Gee, I wonder if this dude and the other one were involved in drugs or anything criminal? That could account for them getting harassed. Nobody else wonder about that?
I think more thought is needed on this.
Do we accept all refugees who are subject to persecution, even if it's because they are criminals?
Not saying these guys are ... but how do we know?
Seems like a pretty open door.
Not surprised that the usual anti-immigrant crowd are giving this guy a pass:
Just proves again that anti-immigrant attitudes in Canada are largely due to white supremacist thinking.
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No wonder they have so many "rights". They get to vote. They are forming a union aren't they?
Can you say "Criminals should have a vote in federal politics"? smallc can't seem to bring himself to say that.
I don't believe they do when they are incarcerated.
As is is fine with me.
oops ... i'm wrong: Supreme Court says they can.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...006&no_ads=
2006:
This is the second time federal prisoners have been allowed to vote since the Supreme Court struck down part of the Elections Act in 2002. It had been challenged under the charter of rights by a convicted murderer.
The court said voting could teach inmates democratic values and social responsibility.
Shane Shoemaker, serving a life sentence for first-degree murder at Edmonton Institution, agrees.
He and other inmates at the maximum-security prison have been following the campaign on TV in their cells. There are no election posters on the walls. No candidates have come to door-knock.
"Most guys in prison feel like outcasts. Voting is kind of a big thing," says Shoemaker, 30, who hails from Calgary.
"You feel like you are contributing to society."
Shoemaker, who is into the eighth year of his sentence, says most inmates plan to vote for any party other than the Conservatives.
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I think that we should leave voting as is.
ditto
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Sorry pliny. my mistake.
However, I agree with small c.
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Blue's not even Canadian anymore.Red Baron's more Canadian than anything Labatts makes.
And Omar Khadr is more Canadian than Labatt's Blue!
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It looks like everyone is claiming the first!
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Nonsense....it may have been the first mosque in Canada, but not North America, as mosques existed in Maine, Connecticut, and New York many years before.
Link?
Never mind ...
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/200...07f60322f70603e
North Dakota Is Home to First U.S. Mosque
And sometime around 1929 or 1930, when they realized they would be staying in North Dakota, working as farmers and raising their families here, the Lebanese community decided to build a mosque.
I guess you are right about being first, though not the location.
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How about waiting until ALL the facts are in before judging?
We won't ever know all the facts, and regardless of 'self defence', frankly, I can't comprehend how someone could do that to another person. period.
I do believe he could have deescalated the situation without that.
He says he's "innocent" of "the more serious charges" which means he'll take a plea bargain, I expect.
If convicted of the most serious charge, criminal negligence causing death, racers can face life in prison. But, Taylor said that almost never happens. "To my knowledge, there isn't (a convicted street racer) who has served more than five months in jail," he said. In November 2000, street racers in Vancouver killed 51-year-old Irene Thorpe, a pedestrian, and were convicted of criminal negligence causing death The two teens involved, Sukvir Singh Khosa and Bahadur Singh Bhalru, were given conditional sentences of two years less a day and placed under house arrest — a sentence that provoked outrage in most of the country.
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In the end I don't think anyone blames Stephen Harper for the recession, people are just upset that, for an economist, he couldn't see this coming or didn't want to see it coming when EVERYONE else did.
Harper was lying to us intentionally, thinking that we are stupid. His contempt for Canadians was never more obvious.
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Yes, it really is which is why I live where I do. I don't need to be surrounded by parasites and germs. City people have worse health and weaker immune systems.
Evidence? Link? Generally exposure helps build immunity, so I think you are out to lunch on that.
Do you live a hermit's life out of fear of germs?
I can understand your fear of people, though, considering your disgusting racist attitudes.
Why is it that you prefer the Red Ensign again?
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Source? Flu shot isn't a live vaccine so what are the risks?
That's what they tell you! Believe it if you want to.
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How about we let her keep her citizenship card? That'd be fair I think.
Watch this become a trend. Travel to a different country. Fabricate difficulty (or even report that you were tortured!) and then when you return (on the taxpayer's dime)...sue the Canadian government (and get paid by...you guessed it...the taxpayers).
How revealing. I've always found that it takes a cheater's mind to think of all the ways of cheating the system, and to be suspicious of everyone else. Are you jealous you didn't think of it first? And when are you leaving the country again?
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Why do people who have never been police officers and don't understand how hard their job is always second guess them? No, they aren't perfect, and yes, they step over the line sometimes, but they're simply people wilth a very difficult and thankless job to do....we don't give them nearly enough credit for the things they do right.
I thank them all the time - whenever I see them.
But there are some problems with the OPP right now, imo, and when they're wrong they should step up, instead of hiding behind excuses and coverups.
And let's not forget ... it's not the officers' mistake ... it's the CO's.
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LETTER TO THE EDITOR
TheStar.com | Opinion | Two takes on armed takedown
Aug 21, 2009 04:30 AM
Re:Armed takedown shocks singer, Aug. 19
The so-called high-risk takedown on Highway 427 on Monday night demonstrates how out of control the OPP is. This incident was based on a mistaken report by another motorist and should have been dealt with in a much more controlled and cautious manner.
The suspect vehicle should have been followed and observed before being intercepted and approached. Instead, an overly aggressive and militaristic approach was taken, which will result in more unneeded bad publicity for Toronto.
It is time police officers were reminded that their job is to keep the peace and not to react in such a heavy handed and confrontational manner to reports from the public.
Jim Roche, Toronto
Police in Ontario, and across Canada take the report of weapons being pointed from cars seriously, and take no chances when dealing with the occupants of any vehicle stopped for investigation.
Fortunately for Sivan Perwer, he reacted correctly and obeyed instructions given by the officers. Once the vehicle and occupants were searched and no weapons found, it would appear the group was allowed to go on its way.
No harm, no foul, as the saying goes.
Bill Sandford, Barrie
I'm inclined to agree that the OPP went 'rambo' and should have monitored and followed first. Now they've embarrassed themselves (again) and terrorized innocent people, and I do believe that is harmful.
I'm also inclined to believe that both the person who reported it and the OPP were indulging in some racial profiling.
I think an apology should come from Julian Fantino.
He has a habit of tilting at broomsticks and camera tripods, and ordering guns pointed too fast and too long, and it infests the OPP under his lead, imo, except where there are more level headed CO's.
Of course, racial profiling is rampant under Harper's lead too, so it wouldn't hurt him to acknowledge the error, after Fantino apologizes.
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http://muslim-canada.org/cdnmuslm.htm
In relation to the general topic ... this is interesting information.
The vast majority of Muslims rely on employment to earn their livelihood. Two of their characteristics are worthy of note. First, they are economic migrants, educated and skilled who add to the country's stock of knowledge, convert knowledge into ideas (patents) and into new expressions of old ideas (copyrights), and help create jobs. Twenty-seven per cent of the Muslims in the prime labour force, age group 25 to 44 years, have one or more university degrees, a proportion much higher than the 17 per cent for the population as a whole.
Second, the motive of their migration to Canada, i.e., to improve their economic well-being and lead a fulfilling life, is reinforced by their beliefs. Every day, five times a day, when Muslims are called to prayers they are also called towards falah , i.e., to achieve well being and the good. And falah is not merely the indulgence of private sanctity but it is also the true state of well-being and proper prosperity fulfilled and realized in social life.
The demographics and work ethics of the Muslim labour force have very significant implications for the cost and funding of the country's social security system, a topic high on the public policy debate these days. Proportionally, they withdraw much less from the system and contribute much more to it than the Canadian population as a whole. Muslim families derive only 4 per cent of their total income from social security programs - old age pensions, unemployment insurance benefits, family allowances, welfare payments, etc. By comparison, this percentage for all families in Canada is 7 per cent. The comparisons are more striking with respect to the financing of the social safety net: while there are only five people working to support one in retirement in the country, among Muslims there are 15 workers to support each retiree.
Numbers do not fully convey their economic contribution. Muslims participated in almost every major event in the economic history of Canada. They hewed rocks, laid tracks and struck nails to build the Canadian Pacific railway in the late 19th century, an event dubbed the "national dream" because of its importance. Muslim farmers were among the pioneers who opened up Alberta and Saskatchewan for cultivation and settlement in the beginning of the 20th century. Skilled and professional Muslim immigrants kept up the tempo of economic growth in the 1960s and 1970s. Muslim educators responded to the need for teachers and professors as the baby boom of the post-Second World War period rolled into grade schools and then graduate schools, thus strengthening the foundation for a secure and prosperous economic future for the country.
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The uncertainties, self doubts and social solecism, so pervasive in the early phases of the settlement of a new community, lingered on for a long time. Nearly a century passed before the Muslims gave public expression to their presence and identity. An affirmation of the human ability to persist and endure, a testament to the fervency of the faith of the Muslims of Edmonton, the first public announcement of the presence of the community of believers in Islam in Canada, and the first public expression that they had laid their roots in the new land, Al-Rashid mosque the first in North America - opened its doors on December 12, 1938. With the mayor of Edmonton in attendance and a Christian as the master of ceremonies, Abdullah Yusuf Ali - the most famous English translator of the Qur'an -- performed the dedication ceremony.
I guess little mosque on the prairie is a reality!
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Do you not know how to type "CIA world fact book" in google?
As for cherry picking, China and India make up a good chunk of the worlds population and have good economic growth while Japan is the second largest economy in the world with a labor shortage.
I added Saudi Arabia because it's the heart of the Muslim world, which ties into the topic of this thread.
It's customary to provide a link, so people can verify your 'quotes'.
Don't want me to look, eh cherry picker?
We can therefore conclude that the data will show the opposite of what you claim. Thanks.
My point was simply that there are many multicultural countries. It's a natural circumstance. We are late to the game because of restrictive immigration in the first half of the 20th century.
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I'm no economist, but I'm wondering about what some people have been saying - ie, that this is just a small positive bounce from stimulus, cutbacks, etc, and could be followed by a bigger crash, like the 30's. However, the drought was a big factor in the 30's as well.
The Great Depression was triggered by a sudden, total collapse in the stock market. The stock market turned upward in early 1930, returning to early 1929 levels by April, though still almost 30 percent below the peak of September 1929.[11] Together, government and business actually spent more in the first half of 1930 than in the corresponding period of the previous year. But consumers, many of whom had suffered severe losses in the stock market the previous year, cut back their expenditures by ten percent, and a severe drought ravaged the agricultural heartland of the USA beginning in the summer of 1930.
In early 1930, credit was ample and available at low rates, but people were reluctant to add new debt by borrowing.[citation needed] By May 1930, auto sales had declined to below the levels of 1928. Prices in general began to decline, but wages held steady in 1930, then began to drop in 1931. Conditions were worse in farming areas, where commodity prices plunged, and in mining and logging areas, where unemployment was high and there were few other jobs. The decline in the US economy was the factor that pulled down most other countries at first, then internal weaknesses or strengths in each country made conditions worse or better. Frantic attempts to shore up the economies of individual nations through protectionist policies, such as the 1930 U.S. Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act and retaliatory tariffs in other countries, exacerbated the collapse in global trade. By late in 1930, a steady decline set in which reached bottom by March 1933.
Except for the drought (touch wood), we have the same situation now. Also, the major spenders - the baby boom bulge, now 45 - have done all their major spending: That won't pick up again. Now they are hunkering down, reining in to prepare for retirement, even moreso because of this economic uncertainty. However, this is somewhat balanced by the mini-boom of their kids and by immigration, but I suspect the following generations will not be the big spenders their parents were.
(Note: US data, and descriptions are out of alignment with graphs.)
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2005/12/...t-and-boom.html
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I don't want to jump to conclusions about Bryant either. Currently, the truth is between Sheppard and Bryant but obviously Sheppard can't tell his version of the story. We don't know how his visit with his girlfriend or his meeting with the police translated to any kind of reaction at the collision with Bryant afterward. Also we don't know our own capabilities in times of crisis.
Earlier eyewitness accounts describe an angry clash between Mr. Bryant and Mr. Sheppard – a toot of the horn and a shout to get moving from Mr. Bryant; a refusal and perhaps an answering shout from Mr. Sheppard; Mr. Bryant edging his convertible closer, and by one account, actually hitting Mr. Sheppard's bike, whereupon Mr. Sheppard allegedly left his bike and marched over and reached into the offending open car.
This is what bothers me ... sounds like road rage by Mr Bryant started it. Guy might have been reaching for keys, to make him stay there, who knows. NOBODY said he hit Bryant - just "reached in".
I think I'll be very disturbed if Bryant gets off. You don't run into someone's bike on purpose and expect to just drive away. Sheppard had a right to approach him and expect an apology and payment for damage. Bryant had no right to try to knock him off the car, speeding down the wrong side of the road and intentionally smashing him into things and killing him, even if the guy did try to pop him ... and nobody says Sheppard tried to hit Bryant.
I just can't imagine Bryant claiming 'self defence'.
And today he said he is "innocent"?
How could anyone feel "innocent" after doing that to someone?
Really disturbing. Creepy to me.
more ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/world/am...toronto.html?hp
Two construction workers doing repairs along the road told CTV, a Canadian television network, that the car accelerated, its tires squealing, before veering into oncoming traffic on the left side of the street.
The workers said that the motorist repeatedly mounted the sidewalk and drove near lampposts in what seemed to be an attempt to brush off the man hanging onto the side.
One of the workers said the driver was “yelling pretty loud and he sounded very, very angry.” The other worker said, “He meant to knock him off.”
OK ... if Bryant was really scared of the guy, why didn't he yell for help from the construction guys to "get him off me" and slow down near them?
It's just tooooooooo creepy.
Poll suggests a rejection of Multiculturalism!
in Federal Politics in Canada
Posted
link?