charter.rights

First of all I don't know last names since the 12 step program maintains anonymity and even if I knew, I took an oath of confidentiality. The only one full of it is you. And no one said that the Church was "rampant" with pedophiles. We proved that the Catholic Church protected a number of them and instead of turning them over to police they hid them and move them around. Under the law which your Church seems to ignore, if child abuse is even suspected in the public education system the teacher or anyone else MUST report it. Yet in the last 20 years there have been numerous cases where the Priest was diddling kids and when the Diocese was contacted they simply moved them to a new parish. That has been documented in many criminal cases and had the victims not come forward 10 years later, the priests might very well have gotten away with it. You have no authority in the Church and it is likely you have been booted out from a few. No one in their right mid would endorse a racist, ignorant and murder promoting woman hater like you and I highly doubt the Priest even knows your name. "Pedophiles are in every profession in the world." Now you are trying to rationalize pedophilia within the Catholic Church! How low and pathetic will you go....geezzz!

You obviously have a misconstrued perception of what the protests were about. No one threaten violence. They merely told them to get off the land, remove their equipment or risk having it tied up as long as the occupation took place. IN the case of the Culbertson reclamation of the quarry the owner was given 3 months notice and refused to heed the warnings. Ultimately it took over a year for him to be able to retrieve a backhoe, a dump truck and some crushing equipment. The economic loss of use of that equipment was caused by him and no one else.

The tyranny of the majority rarely succeeds - especially within a defined Charter of Rights and Freedoms. So your argument that the majority "could" change the law is a fallacy at best and probably fits with the number of fallacies that you operate under. Regardless the law is what it is. There are no property rights in Canada and so the Crown holds ultimate authority over the rights of citizens to use and hold property in tenure. Six nations on the other hand are not citizens and their property protected under the Charter as a result of the Royal Proclamation 1763 hold that they MUST be consulted The answer has been clear for almost 20 years in the jurisprudence of the Supreme Court of Canada – consultation, negotiation, accommodation, and ultimately, reconciliation of aboriginal rights and other important, but at times, conflicting interests..... J.C. MacPherson J.A, Frontenac Ventures Corporation v. Ardoch Algonquin First Nation, 2008 When the Crown fails in its duty to consult and accommodate then in the case of Six Nations they have the legal right of propriety estopple - meaning they have a right to hold up development and stop building on contentious lands. Now with the recent confirmation by the Court of Appeal of Ontario backed by a Supreme Court ruling on the issue of contempt charges for an improperly use injunction process, it is apparent that injunctions will no longer be freely offered as a solution to protest, and when they are granted "....where constitutionally protected aboriginal rights are asserted, injunctions sought by private parties to protect their interests should only be granted where every effort has been made by the court to encourage consultation, negotiation, accommodation and reconciliation among the competing rights and interests".J.C. MacPherson J.A, Frontenac Ventures Corporation v. Ardoch Algonquin First Nation, 2008 So we are right back to where we were 20 years ago with the Supreme Court saying that consultation MUST take place. I have no doubt that further rulings will reinforce the right to hold up development and block third party interests where that consultation has not take place. And there is nothing that the majority can do about given that we are a country based on the rule of law - not your hateful and narrowly intended law but one that recognizes the rights of all people to co-exist peacefully. And I agree with your first sentence. There is no logic to your argument,

We have already proven for the benefit of the readers of this thread that the Catholic Church does harbour drunks, pedophiles and adulterers. Since you deny it in face of overwhelming evidence we must also conclude that the Catholic Church encourages you to lie too. So perhaps if you are representative of the Catholic Church then we should demand a label be placed on all churches: Warning. Liars pedophiles, drunkards and adulterers may be present. Avoid contact and do not give out any personal information. Notify the authorities the minute a priest touches you! Oh abd BTW the Church hasn't "hurt me". I know a number of priest who while they are nice and friendly guys are fraught with addiction, phobias and compulsions. They shouldn't be in charge of their parishes, but in spite of their acknowledgment the Church will not take an official position with them. It is a sad situation waiting to happen.

No doubt in your delusional mind you believe such crap. It never happened that way. In fact it were Caledonians who were throwing sticks and golf balls at the natives, and the videos I witnessed show the Caledonians drunk and disorderly yelling racist epithets trying to pick a fight with the Six nations people. Although I do understand that Six Nations eventually retaliated by bringing up a fire truck and spraying water on the raucous crowd. The videos also clearly show the OPP standing facing the townsfolk (once again). Do us all a favour and stop lying and making up stuff to make it sound worse than it was.....

Wrong. It is absolutely peaceful. Not only that is it acceptable for protest to occur, even if it disrupts a place economically. No one has a right to make money where it interferes with a Charter Right. No one was held back from receiving medical attention. Stop making things up. The terrorists are the ignorant and violent counter protesters that hide behind religion.

There have been none of these CAUSED by protesters. Economic loss is a result of the Crown's failure to consult. In the case of DCE the developer was paid off. The remainder of the economic lass that hit Caledonia is a result of people like McHale showing up and trying to make a big deal out of it. Had he not involved himself there would have been business as usual...including Six nations shopping as they always had in Caledonia. However, since McHale invited the racism in people to the surface, Caledonia is still in trouble. No one wants to shop in a a racist town. Violence has come from the outside of the protests mostly from McHale's cohorts whom he stirs into a frenzy and then escapes to the safety. ON one occasion he left a foray like a coward always does leaving his wife in the middle of it. His kind of violence is what the OPP are protecting against and if you noticed the majority of times that the police were out in numbers, they faced the Caledonians and McHale and his skin-head invitees. THAT is where the real violence comes from. As to the destruction of private property I believe most of those crimes have been dealt with. It is not alright but there was little damage of any significance that was caused by the supporters of the occupiers.

It is relevant and you don't get to limit the discussion just because it counters your narrow viewpoint. As lately as 20 years ago the Church was still running abusive Indian Residential Schools and to this very day the Catholic Church has refused to apologize fully and disclose the graves of hundreds of children who died under their care. Then as pointed out previously we still have lots of pedophiles, adulterers and drunks not only thriving in the priesthood but protected by a papal order. The Church is the least of the Holy in this world and use their money and power to influence states to commit murder and genocide. The Catholic Church has a long history of abusing the public in countries all over the world. There is no "liberal assault" on the Church or religion. There is an on-going revelation of the exact nature of the atrocities and abuses that the Church and different Christian sects have issued over the year. THAT is call "history" and it is being told as it happened.

Wrong again boy. Most the natives at Six Nations pay for their land and house and hold mortgages just like us. Post-secondary education is a crap shoot with a limited fund making small grants available to lottery winners. The rest of them take out student loans and work hard to get an education just like we did. The fact that protest is a way for native people to exercise their rights isn't just my opinion. It is the law as handed down by the Supreme Court of Canada under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If another group was exercising their freedoms it is just dumb to suggest that people would be hauled away. Rather only people who violate the law get arrested and your ignorance of the law is no excuse. If hooliganism and thuggery is not tolerated in Canadian society then you might want to tell Caladeonians and Bratford people to go home. Since this thing started the hooliganism and violence has been brought with the outsiders and the racists trying to incite hatred. You weren't part of that were you? Demonstrations and occupations are peaceful events until the nutbars from and agitators like McHale show up and incite people to commit mischief. And yes up until a year ago thuggery was acceptable in society when the OPP on a number of occasions violently attacked people at unarmed women and children with tasers and billy clubs, and pointed high powered weapons at women in Deseronto. Perhaps you should take a aboriginal awareness course. You are certainly in need of venting your xenophobic anger and an education goes a long way.

Well there is YOUR problem. Under The Law we do not have property rights. Any builder and developer is fully aware (or ought to be) that they cannot do anything they want with the property. The can;t build high fences or even hire armed guards to protect a potential development. THAT would be against the law. You are advocating that developers break the law, are you? As I said, the problem is not compliance with the law. It is people like you who are ignorant of what the law actually requires. Companies who buy land for development are required to comply with all numbers of acts, statutes, regulations and by-laws both before and after development begins. They cannot anymore than we can, do anything they want with the land. The must comply with the law which was put in place for our benefit. Six Nations has a Charter right to stop up development where it is occurring on land they have an interest in, be it for lands claims, or past agreement, or even for non-payment (proprietary estopple). They are perfectly within the law and those that oppose them are not. While the Courts have long held that the Crown must consult with First Nations over development on land they have an interest it, more recently it has become clear that First Nations also have a right to stop third parties from using or operating on that land when the Crown has failed its duty. Until the Crown starts following the law and ignorant citizens like you start understanding and complying with the law, there will be uprisings and conflict. The problem isn't with Six Nations exercising their legal rights but with people like you who take offense at them being able to. BTW there is still the issue with the $1 trillion trust that we owe Six Nations. Perhaps if you think it is prudent for the government to somehow economically disrupt Six Nations for acting within the law we could expect Six Nations along with other First Nations continuing to interrupt our roads, our development and our resource extraction on their lands that have never been ceded or that they have a right to continue to hunt , fish and removed resources for their own use. At the end of the day I think we would be in far worse shape than they would by reducing their annual transfer payments. Just look at what happened when the OPP shut the 401 at Deseronto, and when the Mohawks shut down the rail. CN estimates they lost $500 million in one day for spoiled and undeliverable goods.

Law and order was never out of whack in Caledonia. As the situation has evolved we have seen how those violent protesters from Caledonia were absolutely wrong about the legality of the reclamation of Douglas Estates. Six Nations had every right to stop development and their response to the violence instigated by Gary McHale the the rest of the eggheads was justified, save and except those that were charged like McHale, for going overboard. Further Six Nations has every legal right to stop development in Caledonia, Brantford, Paris or any other town along the Grand River. Residents better get used to it since I have no doubt that until our governments - including the municipal ones - start to consult and accommodate in a conciliatory way, we will see things ramped up all over Ontario and perhaps all over Canada. There is never any justification fro violence but then taking over a development is not a violent act. Only the response by ignorant and negative Canadians protesting the protesters raises an occupation to to the level violence we have seen. The OPP will be there to make sure that people like McHale and his band of violent rabble rousers don;t interfere with the legal right of First Nations people to stop up development and close down roads on their land. BTW I have also heard through the grapevine that building will commence next year on the Culbertson Tract in Deseronto next year. It won't be some developer from Kingston though. It will the the people from Tyendinaga building on their own land and pushing illegal non-native squatters back to Napanee. I hear the first up will be a Cultural Centre right on the very land that was the centre of the original protest.

Sure...What do you call the Crusades then...liberation?

AH POOR Angus. It won't work buddy. I post within the forum rules. Nothing you can do about that.

Ah a stumbling block! Your sense, or a scientist's sense of understanding the world around you COULD be wrong.....as I stated before they have been wrong about the definition of death a number of times before and I would maintain that they still don't understand it fully since they approach only from a physical examination. I make no such claims that the mind is independent from the body. The two co-exist. However, thought neither is "invented" by the mind nor does it statically disappear moments later. Energy is the common thread and our bodies at the quantum level are nothing but energy. Therefore we are part of something much more than the physical vessels we inhabit. I am fully aware of the limitation of sensory perception, as well as the prejudices and conditioning our minds have been bombarded with from birth. I merely assert that it is possible for thought to influence our surroundings and that our physical encounters are not random. They are carefully choreographed by our thoughts and our free will is the cause of every experience we have or had - even as simple as walking down the street, choosing whether to turn right or left on a whim, and being hit by a truck. The minute you ignore "possibilities" in science and instead rely upon certainties you have turned your argument into a religious one.

This coming from Gomer Pyle is too funny....

You're trying to rationalize your answer before you even understand the question. If you would put that aside we might be able to get somewhere. If you can't then there is no sense going any further.

Do as M.Dancer suggested and type in "catholic priest abuse" in google news... My information comes from confessions of Priests in 12 step program that I have attended. There are lots of them with lots of different problems but all of them as still heading up their Churches.

Again you can.t imply I support it when I never said it. Free will means that anyone has the free will to pull a gun out and blow someone away. My saying that it is our free will does not condone murder. It just means that we can think and choose anyway we want and nothing would stop us. You don't agree with anyone here so what is one more? But that's ok because trolls rarely look for support. They are here just to stir things up.....kinda like that Rabble Rouser from Binbrook when he shows up in Caledonia.

[rant]Hey Rabble Rouser, I don't have an "agenda". Although I know you do and it probably involves you stealing money away from legitimate charitable organizations to support your habit. I will counter your often racist and xenophobic views however, because allowing racists a forum to congregate only brings more skinheads out or their hiding places. Your bigoted ways don't stand to the measure of truth, or in the face of law. I have proven that over and over again. However I do find you entertaining in a "listening to a guy puke" kinda way. Isn't it funny how I can travel anywhere in Ontario and YOU are restricted in some parts? You must have been a bad boy since the courts haven't seen fit to let you in unrestricted. And after all is said and done while you may eventually make it back to the earthquake region you set up, you can bet that the cops will be following you whereever you go. Maybe you really should watch the company you keep since you are a bad influence and it doesn't look like you'll find many supporters here, either.[/rant]

What if? Petitions are useless tools (and so are the people that think they hold any meaning). There will be no inquiry. It would have to serve the public interest. Gary McHale, Ken Hewitt and Doug Fleming all serve their own personal interests. Frankly, you sound rather dumb.

Where I live, in the last 20 or so years there have been 3 or 4 priests as I recall who were accused of abusing children or in one case seducing the wives of the parishioners and having daytime trysts under the guise of bible study. Everyone of the them was relocated to another diocese. No charges were laid, nor were the police involved UNTIL the mother of one of the kids went to the newspaper to complain how she was being "handled" by the Church when she was promised they would follow up with discipline and charges if they believed they were warranted. The perpetrator had been sent to a posh Toronto Church and is almost seemed he had been given a promotion for being caught. These are not just isolated cases. They are rampant in the Catholic Church and less so (at least publicly) in the other churches. The Catholic Church not only protects pedophiles but I also know for a fact it hides and protects homosexuals, alcoholics and adulterers.

Quit with trying to intellectualize a very basic premise. Do you have the free will to walk down the street and turn left or right on a whim?

There you go again! Putz. I didn't say anything of the sort. People get to choose what they do and beyond any mind control they have the free will to do it. You can even choose to come out of the closet and declare your gayness. No one is stopping you.

Actually people do have the "free will" to infect others, including passing on the common cold. The legal consequences do change or alter the "free will" to choose. Of course we all know you haven't a clue about what you are talking about and are using this forum to troll your narcissistic little manhood. Caught any gays lately? I know you are just dying to out your hands all over them.....

We're too far apart on this to discuss it much further until we have clarified and agreed on some basic things. Everyone has free will. We choose to walk or drive. We choose to eat at 12:00 Noon or delay it until a friend arrives. We choose not to shave today. We choose to pick up tickets to the theatre. We choose to step off the curb in traffic. We choose not to strangle the sales clerk that kept us waiting for 1/2 hour only to return telling us that the item we were after was out of stock months ago. The results of our choices might have consequences but they are not random. Our choices influence the outcome and without free will much of our experiences would never happen. So can we agree that we at least have this level of "free will"? Our choices are ours to make free from outside interference.