jefferiah

How many times have you heard someone say, "If I had his money, I'd do things my way." But little they know that it's so hard to find. One rich man in ten with a satisfied mind. For money can't buy back your youth when you're old, nor a friend when you're lonely, nor a heart thats grown cold, the wealthiest person is a pauper at times compared to the man with a satisfied mind. ......... Also there was that guy on Lost.

They should have told them to stop staring at her chest. But the more I read your posts, the more interested I become in your dress code argument. Though, I would never have accepted it as a teen. But would you allow track pants?

Which is not relevant when it comes to deciding whether or not he should have been suspended for the shirt. No matter what else he did, other people could wear similar shirts. Do we make rules about similar shirts based on the unrelated actions of William Swinimer?

Or perhaps because I am not looking to be offended. I understand how you are interpreting it. And I know I would not interpret it as such if it were a muslim wearing an analagous shirt. Because I really don't think the meaning is that your life is a waste. And I do not think that a person in that situation should be asked to remove their shirt either. Once again, if someone wore a shirt which said "Life is Wasted Without Allah", would you really find that offensive? Would you really think that that person is saying your life is a waste? In any case, I mentioned your name in the post you quoted to point out to Kimmy that what you and I were arguing is the important matter here, not whether Swinimer is a weirdo or what his other actions were. I am pointing out that you were on topic, and she was not. I commend you for that. And I commend Kimmy for the "butthole" post cuz that was just hella funny.

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I think you are arguing with someone who is not me. This is an argument you did not resolve with someone else and are trying to finish with me, perhaps? Invitro fertilization? Krystalnacht? Godwin's Law works in mysterious ways. In any case, my position is that it is ridiculous to suspend someone for this tshirt. You may disagree with that. Obviously Cybercoma and Bonam do, and some agree with me. But whether or not he is worth going to war for is of little relevance. Someone else could wear the tshirt as well. I know precious little about William Swinimer. I have not claimed that he is the victim of a vast anti-Christian conspiracy. Nor am I making him the poster boy for Christian piety. Either way, that does not change the fact that I do not think someone should be suspended for this tshirt. I base this on the premise that (disregarding what anyone else thinks or how they would react) if it were a kid wearing a shirt that says "Life is Wasted Without Allah", I would think it would be overboard for people to take the message that that person is actually saying their life is a waste. I know, I would not even think that. And like I did with Cybercoma, I would say the same thing to someone who said that such a shirt was traumatizing and de-humanizing, that they are over-analyzing it and that over-analyzation is their own problem and not a valid reason to expect someone else to change their clothes. Or to borrow one from the book of Kimmy -- "boo hoo". So let's examine it from that perspective. And I am not using this particular example because I think "Oh if it were a muslim tshirt this would not have happened." I really do not know what would happen in such a situation, but regardless, it has no bearing upon the illustration I am about to make. Where I am a Christian (perhaps a poor one at that) and you seem to have a great deal of frustration toward Christians, then perhaps the best way for either of us to see the issue clearly is to replace it with another faith. If you are sitting in school, and someone is wearing an hypothetical t-shirt which reads "Life Is Wasted Without Allah", do you really take that as a message that this person is saying your life is a waste?

Ah, well now you are getting back on topic. Tax evasion is illegal. There seems to be some debate here as to whether this shirt was an actual violation of the rules. And whether it is indeed offensive enough to warrant a suspension. And neither this particular kid, nor his past actions, have any relevance to whether this shirt should be allowed in school, if let's say another kid, whose father does not look so kooky to you and who ranks lower on the Kimmy butthole scale, chose to wear it. Tax evasion warrants an arrest. And the debate is whether this shirt warrants a suspension.

Well, seeing as they suspended him for the shirt, it would seem that the relevant issue is the shirt. Not his character otherwise or whatever other rules he has violated. If they wanted to suspend him for harrassment they could have done so. No? He may be a guy just looking for attention. He may be the worst kid at school, but what does that have to do with the issue at hand? Now, you may be of the opinion that the shirt in and of itself is wrong, and that is a whole other argument, and in fact the one we were having here. But whether or not he is a jerk is irrelevant.

And the relevance between these two things when judging whether a shirt is ok?

Ha! Spirited answer. What relevance does being a butthole have to the heinous crime of wearing a tshirt?

So for which of these things did he get suspended?

I was simply agreeing wih Cybercoma that many Christians do get bent out of shape with analogous things. You don't think so? But I don't think it's relevant. Let them get bent out of shape over an atheist t-shirt if they want, but don't suspend a person for wearing it.

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Many people get bent out of shape over things like that. Isn't it great that you can still say what you think despite people getting bent out of shape? It doesn't bother me if you believe I am wasting my time and you can say so all you like. It is neither traumatizing nor is it dehumanizing. And I think you are parsing the language too strictly here. As I have said, if someone wore a shirt to class which said 'Life is Wasted Without Allah', that is neither traumatizing nor dehumanizing. I would not even bother to extrapolate it to the level that this person is saying that I am a total waste. In fact, I would not even take it that way. Would it really affect you?

Seems you are making a blanket statement about Christians here. Hmmmmm...... Should the Christians on this board feel traumatized and dehumanized?

OK, now if you saw someone wearing a shirt which said 'Life is Wasted Without Allah', or 'Life is Wasted Without Hockey', would you really feel like you are being told your life is crap??? Seriously now?

Certainly not. The position of Christianity is that all people are hopeless sinners. And that salvation is only a matter of grace. In the Bible, Jesus stated the he was the only way to the truth. That all other religious figures are false prophets. Those are pretty definitive statements. So it is not un-Christian at all for a Christian to assert such things. You cannot be one thing and another. Can you be an atheist and also a Muslim/Christian/Jew? Of course not? In any case, I'll try to clarify my position here. I find it rather hard to take you seriously. I mean we are talking about a tshirt here. And you are throwing around terms like traumatization and dehumanization about being exposed to someone's t-shirt. Like seriously, don't you think maybe, just maybe, you are going a little overboard. As far as religion goes, I know you do not subscribe to it. But if a Jehovah's witness or whatnot shows up at my door, or a Muslim tells me Allah is the only way, I do not find that dehumanizing. Nor is it traumatic.

I am simply telling you that you are over-analyzing things. If someone wore a shirt which said 'Life Is Wasted Without Mohammed' I would not interpret that as something which is belittling to me or dehumanizing. Because it is not. The kid is not trying to belittle people. And if you feel belittled in this case, it is because you choose to be.

Would you allow track pants?

Well, you are free to report me then or whatever it is you do here.

It is the plain truth. Sorry about that. But it is. If he is worried about the tshirt of someone who is several miles away, he is not a grown man with a pair of cahones. He is a snivelling baby. You can ban me if you like. I post here once a year anyways so I could care less. But Cybercoma is a baby, and someone needs to tell him to grow a set.

Yup, some of the worst atrocities in history are tshirt-based. If the tshirt said 'Life Without Mohammed Is Wasted' or 'Life Without Hockey is Wasted' or whatever, you would think that is devaluing life? Seriously, man. You are over analyzing it. And at that point, no one can keep you from being offended. I don't even buy that you are that offended over the shirt. If you are, it is more a problem with you over analyzing it, and that is your problem not the rest of the world's.

You don't even believe yourself. But really, you are right, we probably shouldn't wait until the tshirt raises to the level of traumatization. I mean today the tshirt is just expressing a religious message. Tomorrow the shirt might be selling drugs.

You are a baby. There is no other way to put it. You can find it offensive if you want. Hell you can find the Pepsi logo offensive. It just makes you a complete baby. And the rest of the world does not have to bend over for your faux outrage over something that really has no effect on you. Grow a pair!

I don't believe for one second that you believe yourself here. It would be more comparable to a tshirt that said 'Life Without Mohammed is Wasted'. And would you really be offended over that? Seriously? You could not survive a day at school sitting next to someone with a shirt like that on? Are you that much of a baby that you worry about another person's shirt? You are someone who clearly looks to be offended. And you will never have trouble finding it.