KrustyKidd

I beleive the exact opposite. The more involved in a project, the stonger the product. If it were possible to get a child of five to make an informed choice then I would be all for it. I don't own this world and either do you, rather we all do. So why don't all the owners of this planet let us run it, why is it only the responsibility or pleasure of a few? Why do so many set up roadblocks to decision making when they should be paving golden brick roads? Incentives for voting, citizenship, student loans, rights, social insurance, health care. We are a country for crying out loud. Not your country and not the concerned citizens who vote but everybody's country. The five year old kid in the day care, the freaked out teen with the pierced nose. Everybody's whether they like it or not.

August, you agreed with me. or else I explained it wrong, one of the other. I saw everything just as you said, with the possible exception that I can see how a guy like Saddam in his position would cling to anything he could to get a feeling of non involvement from the US. Glaspie That seems like it is what it is. 'Whatever your problem is, it isn't ours.' Saddam takes it as the proverbial 'green light' and goes for it. Of course, there is that little nagging problem of international law, but who cares right? Not despotic dictators anyhow. Like if he had gotten the same advice from Dr Laura it would have been just as much a green light so where does that mean a damm thing?

OPEC has a similar problem/corner on the market. Produce too much, the price goes down, produce too little, the customer is forced to find alternatives and adapts to other products or sources and they don't come back. Hence, the wheat board to keep things in balance.

Youth? I thought for a moment you were talking about the Liberal Utopia where personal-responsibility is a dirty word.

I agree. This is just as much their country as ours. We may have spent more time at it but they have more time and opportunity to suffer the consequences of our votes. In Nevada a movement is trying to pro rate teen votes for state elections. Something like 1/3 an adult's until sixteen and then 1/2 until age of majority. Makes sense to me.

Some evidence? It's an absolute fact. Ir's more than rumor. Surprised that you supposedly know all about legalities of the war and yet never heard of this crucial anti war argument. US Ambassador Glaspie met with Saddam where it was stated that differences between Arabs were theirs alone. Go to Google, enter Glaspie and Saddam and it will give you more than you ever needed to know. On the anti war side, it provides a supposed muted permission to invade Iraq. On the rightist pro-war side it shows nothing but a lack of an Ambassador's understanding of Saddam's mind. His desperation for a way out of the crippling debt that the Iran war left him with, most of it owed to Kuwait, the country that was his answer out of his quandrum distorted any answer he might have gotten from Glaspie. And, he clutched her non commital answer like it was a green light. The month that followed should have left him with no doubt as to the supposed permission of the US and world. Strong resolutions and a massive troop buildup on his borders and Kuwaits with one objective, get him out. Nothing ambiguious there, Kuwait is not for you. I do however, firmly believe that this will be a crucial part of his defense for that particular action.

It seems you are correct. It quotes a CNN interview but I haven't been able to find it. What I have found however is glowing reviews of the film everywhere. One article agreed with you on his willingness to capitalize on this type of thing though. A rather humerous one was a supposed quote from him published n a website saying that he did it for the American people and allowed them to download it for free. That one got squashed pretty quick after a few downloads LOL.

Does this look like .........? Could they be one and the same? A defiant Saddam Hussein appears at hearing in Iraqi court; denies charges "This is all theatre by Bush, the criminal."

Sad to say Ceasar but true. Not what I would have wished, but all parties are fundementaly the same once they get in power. I remember the last time the Conservatives held the reins, they were just as bad. Anyhow, I didn't vote for the Liberals but they are my government now. Unlike so many in the US who believe that Bush is not their president, they discount the fact that he is and the reality that we all have to work with what you have, rather than against it. Time to accept and move on. In four years we can deal with this again. In the meantime, Happy Canada Day to you as well!

Thanks. That's post number four from you and still nothing to add. Keep going, you are heading the current record for poster irrelevence.

Yes he's right. A dictatorship would be easier. And save money, save lives yet it would not be right. That is why the US did not simply leave the Iraqi Regime intact and install a friendly Dictator. In other words, those words above are stating a simple fact that any intelligent person knows. Like Afganistan of course. I think rather than the negative you might look at it this way; 'The US aids all countries and tries to make them profitable.' In this way, they can stand on their own rather than require constant aid. Not a very profitable enterprise on initital inspection for sure. It will have cost over $500 billion to carry out this operation in Iraq by the time it is all over. At current oil prices, unless the US were to take ALL THE OIL and not pay anything for it then they will never see a third of what they have put out financially. So far, over 85% of oil contracts have gone to non-US agencies in Europe, Asia and Russia. Do you think that once free elections occur that the Iraqis will prefer to give oil away or sell it? Or in the event they prefer to sell it, will the US attack them again to oust the elected government and install a dictator? More like they will say, 'we would like to BUY some of that oil at world prices.' Then bid on it, the same as Europe, Asia and Russia. An indirect form of control. Reaching there Farris, reaching. I assume you work, therefore your boss has 'an indirect form of control' over you. I assume you get you kid to mow the lawn for his or her allowance and in that you 'have an indirect form of control' over them. I know welfare agencies require certain criteria to be met before they hand out cheques. Is that 'an indirect form of control?' A prosperous Iraq is a secure Iraq. An Iraq where there is money and happy people is less likely support terror and aggression. One has to look no further than Canada to see how we are too busy getting on with our lives to think about violence. This in turn allows America to do what they do best, make money and allow peoplel to get on wtih their lives instead of defend against active terror. NMoneywise, a secure Iraq means that a quarter million troops won't have to be continually stationed there to defend against and supress terrorists. A profitable venture for sure as I stated above with the $500 billion price tag. In that aspect, it is self centered, but also a good deal for the Iraqis and the rest of the world. And make sure you go visit Pembroke Online as well. It's a cool site with lots to offer local people and tourists alike.

Fox News Likes F 911 Moore accused of publicity stunt over Disney 'ban' Michael Moore Admits Disney 'Ban' Was A Stunt Michael Moore admits Disney 'ban' was a stunt

Not really. You lurk for however long then the major event that makes you come out of your shell is to be a cheerleader for Black Dog and give me a hard time? What reasons! What noble intellect. A cheerleader and a heckler, your momma must be so proud. When asked why you disagree, you say you don't like to argue. I suppose you just like to be a pom pom girl and don't have a real opinion that can be backed up. Instead preffering to give a hard time instead. Sweet. However, the really cool thing is that on a quiet night like it was last night, with nobody on the Forum but me and Rev, you pop up. And, although you two live two separate time zones apart, and your local time should be completely different, they are exactly the same. As if you lived together or something. Interesting to say the least.

My appoligies then. Here, take a lesson from Black Dog on how to post links and quotes. Note that he gives the link to give yu the opportunity to read his quote in context. It is not a signal for us to go on a scavenger hunt to read the linked source cover to cover from the front page to the obituaries but rather give us the opportunity to ensure that we see exactly the context that the quote is placed in. More. Where are the howls of condemnation? Whenever a Hamas bomber detonates themselves on a Israeli street, we hear outpourings of rage at the "inhumanity" of the Palestinians. Will anyone hold Israel to the same standards? The UN Security Council condemned the killings and Israel's in campaign in Rafah. In a rare move, the U.S. abstained (the closest Israel will get to a rebuke from them). In light of this and the continuing collective punishment meted out against israel, I don't see many options left for the Palestinian people. Likud will not negotiate, peaceful protests will be attacked. It's a fight for survival. I hope they will continue to try and use peaceful protest as a means of keeping Israel's crimes in the spotlight. But I also understand that some may see an all out war as the only chance. After all: they don't have anything to lose. Your link was given with no indication as to what we were supposed to look for and pretty much was 'here, find some proof.' A very frustrarting and time consuming enterprise for somebody whom you are trying to place evidence on a plate for easier consumption for.

Not at all. I have no great love for the US and even told you that I probably dislike GW more than you. This thread, with me and you in it I fear will not go far with this unresolved point though.

Duplicate post

Lookie Post number 1 KK respose Lookie response Too deep for you right? Glad you stopped by.

Absolutely not.

When you called me child and robot all bets were off. I also remember something about an antique record player or something when things were also not going your way. I also remember you reffereing us to this site as proof. Your opinion suddenly has become proof? As I said, I have been here for a year and a half and do not insult people like that. None of us do. Possibly, if this is the way you normally carry out discussions when they do not go your way then you you might find a better home elsewhere. I addressed your thread concern on the US/Can thread.

You think that the US shuld leave the Iraqis to kill themselves in a five or ten way civil war instead of electing whatever type of government they desire themselves Lookie? Why?

You still don't get it Rev. A common fault of a shoddy argument is to make a statement that, if not addressed and settled is accepted as fact. Then when the discussion moves on, it is in the back of everybody's mind that it was never discounted and it becomes assumed as fact. I should think that the legality of the war is of relevence to this argument and, myself, going by international law and the applicable UN resolutions find that it is legal. Therefore your contention that it was illegal makes the argument useless to go on with until this is resolved. That is why I will not address any of the thread. If for example, a secret Security Council Vote was taken on an unknown resolution say ..... 1442. Which says simply that 'all resolutions pertaining to Iraq and them having to adhere to any or all previous resolutions has been recsinded' and that resolution was dated prior to the invasion then you would have a legal point. And a very strong case for us being right in not approving what the US was doing on legal grounds only and it would therefore affect the moral argument as well. Therefore an outstanding point as great as this must be cleared up before the thread can move on or off. So, let's clear it up.

There you go Rev. Finally you make sense. I have been on this board for over a year and a half as have most of the others. We all know that proof is required and do not make an argument without it. If you have a belief and cannot prove it when proof is available then possibly it is a mistaken belief. Rarely do we ever encounter an idividual who does not provide it. We all seem to know what is and is not acceptable proof and work with that. In the absence of proof (ie none is attainable) we work with logic or a combinatin of the two. Law superceeds opinion in legal arguments (as our discussion is on the other thread) and morality superceeds law in religion and morality threads. Nowhere is there a valid point in forgoing links and quotes. If there was then we would be nothing more than a rant forum. And we all know what they are like.

Sure. Identify those who think you are right. I will then ask them individually what they figure. And then at least tell me why you think UN law should not be used as the benchmark for legality in this matter. Or else tell me why the opinions of any individual superceeds those resolutions.

Yes, providing proof for an argument is so irritating. takes a lot out of a rant doesn't it? I suppose you are so much better than all of the rest of us, Black dog, Lonius included. All it takes is to get a relatively unbiased source, any major News outlet will do. Link the page and quote the applicable text. Not much to it really. Don't make readers wade through pages and pages of crap to find out what you might have meant as they have other arguments to go onto and then move on yourself. Any of the right could quote News Max exclusibely but we know that it is a right wing publication and don't. Simply to avoid this problem. If it is a worth item then it will be mentioned in various news media. Myself, I would even accept the NYT if it was a minor event, them and another if it had more importence. To say you are tired of providing proof is a laugh. Judging by your previous attempts at using biased 'unofficial' 'no authority' 'not binding' sources I can see that you are probably more afraid of being seen as wrong rather than having to work too hard.

This must be the evil demented Black Dog that posted this. It makes sense. And to confirm that it cannot be, there is humor as well. I actually laughed. Humor, sense? I could actually start to enjoy this guy.