KrustyKidd

Anybody care to back that statement up with a 10% rise in everything they spend? Also, care to back it up with a 15% decrease in indutrial productivity and subsequent job losses? While we are on it, explain why people can't car pol, leave home five minutes earlier for work, let trucks that are on a downgrade getting speed for an upgrade to pass a slower truck ra[idly out so they can make that quick pass. They don't, they actually speed up so the truck cannot pass on the coast and susequently, the truck looses inertia and has to pass at a lower speed and block traffic. See, it goes two ways. Very enlightening from the cab of a rig vice a Hugo. Just wondering, I live in a small town and most of us live withing a mile of where we work. The commute is two minutes. WTF are people doing with their lives living fifty or so miles of cross town traffic from where they work? Then complaining about trucks instead of their own idiocy. Shoot, I'd be looking for a new job or a new house rather than bitching about a guy in a truck. Or petitioning the government for some reliable transit. Last, wondering, with wall to wall rigs of every size bumper to bumper trying to keep position (we do not like to be behind an unpredictable car if you didn't know that) how do you plan on making all those really safe exits while you dart in and out of the rigs weighing 130 thousand pounds figuring they can stop on a dime and such? Are they supposed to be mind readers. Some stats for those who think they own the road.

Black Dog, that was a fine post indeed. Kudos! I think that the 'hero cult' going around there in the south is less what you think and more of people who abide by tradition. A tradition of however correct or mistaken dictates that one somehow serve their country in trying times. Simply by being in the area of adversity itself is the act of heroism. Other than make the fallen heros what other option is there? To villify them? Make no mention of them? Simply say 'whatever'? The elected government makes the decision to go to war and young men die. They die for defending Europe from Hitler, they die from guarding an embassy in Jerusalem, they die in Iraq and they die while getting loaded in a nightclub in Germany. To make a differenciation of a military death is not unique to America. Here in Canada we were forever going on about the guys that died in Afganistan. They were the absolute greatest and were on the front page forever. No mention was made of the forklift operator that died when the parking brake wasn't set right on a truck he was loading other than a capsule on page ten. I mean, give the guys the credit they are due. Make it good for if you have nothing nice to say ...... I do think that America is unique in it's reverence to the Military though. They have fought for everything they have against a lot of downside odds going back to the Revolution and Texas as well as the Civil War all the way to WWII when they ceased being isolationists for real. It has helped the world I do believe and the underlying philosophy is that without force, the truely evil which is abundant in this world would quickly dictate economical, political, social and ultimately geographical change. I can live with a strong US military. I don't care if anybody else can as I am me, here in Canada. I am not a European nor am I an Asian. Both of those would step in to take over in any way they could if it was possible. The strong US military keeps the bad guys from walking over their business partners to whom they pay fair dollar for their services. Without a strong US military, those services would be so erratic that they would be useless as a means of operating a business or country such as what we have here in Canada. Myself, while thankful for a strong US, also believe that democracy is a better proposition for world peace than letting dictators, fanatics and groups of discontents 'do their thing.'

I've written a book. A tripe piece but have another which I have about five hundred pages so far. I am supporting people with my slave job and can't concentrate on bringing the rather complicated plot together. It drives me like nothing else. I bought a second truck, I started other things to increase income so I can concentrate on that book. I took risks and still am in order to be free to write it. I need at least a year to do it free and clean. i don't care if it sells or makes print, I just have to get it out of my soul. Understand? If you do then you have the soul of an artist as well. A girlfriend whom I explained this to one night observed that there must be thousands of Motzarts stacking wood in mills continent wide, unable to reach true potencial. I counter observed that it is the passion to achieve their goal which makes for the true artist. as if driven hard enough by passion, they would give up everything to accomplish that goal. Give me a hundred grand and I'll write that book. I am good, and the plot is human, fantastic, romantic and lots and lots of action and horror. It has an epic length and you really don't know who the story is about until the end where you go 'Wow, I thought it was about ...." Now, if I was more impassioned, I would starve, let friends bring me leftovers to my cold damp tent in the woods while I wrote this. My daughter would face ridicule and my ex would wonder if the court can force a pauper to work against his will. However, the drive is not strong enough for me to give up everything. Close, I am working like a madman to do it but won't give up responsibility. And you think that somehow, I am supposed to provide for somebody who will not work like a madman such as I first? Somebody who waits for a handout before he begins? Not a chance. If anybody deserves a handout to do an art project, I do as I have invested money, time, relationships and a good part of my life to complete this. Dammed if I will allow somebody to work fifty hours a week on their 'art' while I work over a hundred so that I can take a few hours to putter with it in the hopes that someday I can devote an entire year to it.

Won't happen, independent truckers are their own worst enemy. Everybody works for a different price, home time, and under and over the table perks that to get them to unionize means getting them to agree on something. That's the love of the game is the independence it gives. For eample, I have something to do for the next few days at home and just didn't call in. I know when I do there will be work. I also remember back a couple years ago there was talk of getting a league of truckers together but it never happened, bigger companies simply slashed prices in order to maintain control. It is a cuthroat business sometimes. However, if one is prudent it can be lucrative. For example, I now have a fuel card issued by the small guys that I haul for, gives us a volume dicount when pooled with the other owner operators. Not as much as say Bison, Shcnieder or whomever but something. Also, I give a dam as my trucks are my life, I take care of them and only hire people whom I know. One being paid for and the other almost I can ride out any type of driver or load shortage better then the big guys with their payments of millions a month. Think I am going to let a union dictate squat to me? Uh uh. I guess what I am getting at is that I do the best I can without killing myself or others, I enjoy the flexibility and good income as well as the ability to get biger if desired. The tax breaks alone are phenominal as I claim $44 a day for meals and the gst on top of that. I like to travel and when accompanied by a friend find the down time while waiting for log books to catch up and such are quite enjoyable whe in a southern exotic local like Reno or whatever, The hotels are tax deductable as well. There are lots of others like me, just as there are lots not like me. To lump us all into the same problematic group is a joke, just as one can lump all groups into a stereotypical consensus. Attitudes that portray us all as pill popping phsycopaths running five log books are a complete falicy and show the ignorence of the general public as they close their minds to the realities of the world in general. A union may work for individuals who wish to be contsrained by the system they allow themselves to be a part of but half of the drivers are like me I think. Enjoying the freedom and opportunity of being independent. I answer to nobody except the laws of the land, just as we all do. I can leave work tommorow and head up to the body shop and have a new decal put on and haul for another crew, or ... take a week off to do whatever. Don't even have to ask. I don't need a union to give my employer rights just as I don't need rights as I have them now. My own ability to stop hauling somebody elses freight. Of course, it would be nice if we all got together and went on strike and watched the rates go up as shippers scambled to find a power unit to haul stuff but as I said, we dont agree on the time of day, hence we are our own worst enemy.

Maybe I can shed a bit of light on this subject. I own two trucks and haul continent wide. I have 70 hours every eight days to do the job. On the ninth day, I can take the first day off the log total and run those hours so that nowhere during an eight day period can I drove or work(includes waiting inspection and fuelingtime)/or over thirteen hours in one consecutive shift. I have no union, those are for people who belong to a larger outfit such as CN or the auto workers so to think that truckers have one is a joke. I certainly wish we did as our rates would be far above the $1.20 a mile I get (not to mention everything you buy would skyrocket) These inspections you speak of are not a joke. At least five times a day I cross an open scale where it is I would guess a seven percent chance that I will have some sort of inspection ranging from having my log book looked at and added or a ten minute brake check to a forty five minute full blown inspection. My truck always passes simply because I have it inspected once a month by the guys who's trailers I haul and my own mechanic probably one every three weeks. I do a faurly good drivers check once every twenty four hours. Your chances for getting a full inspection go down after you have gotten a full one during that year as you are given a sticker so that the DOT cops don't keep inspecting the same fit vehicles over and over again. Hence, the falicy of the numbers in which 35 vehicles get checked and 10 are in shit shape. Given the option of pulling over a fit truck or the one right behind it that looks like it is about to fall apart, the DOT will obviously go for the latter during a blitz. On a slow day they may prefer to cehck cleaner trucks in order to decrease their workload, who knows? All I know is that inspections go down in the rain and I never see a fully loaded cattle trailer with a DOT guy face up under it checking brakes. They do what they want to and when it has certain advantages. This throws all percentages out the window on a given day. During a blitz, like when a reporter is there, they pull over vehicles that they know they have not pulled over before that year. The later in the year, the longer the truck has not had an inspection and hence, the more likely they are to find a truck that may have an ongoing problem. And, of the infractions they find, most are pretty damm minor. Possibly being simply a headlight out or a maladjusted brake. A headlight out is dangerous at nigh but for a truck that is a day cab in the city in summer, not a big deal. A mal adjusted brake to a truck that does no big hill work under heavy loads, no big deal either. However, the DOT has to go by worst case options as either truck may or may not operate under those conditions and must enforce the law to the highests standards, not the lowest. Or, some of those infractions may be sever such as having a set of wheels ready to come off. In any case, I can assure you that if they were truely serious enough to place the vehicle out of service (our of service being wating while the driver changes a light bulb, a tire guy to come out and fix bald tire) On the extreme, out of srvice could be a kingpin rady to fall off the front axle in which case, the truck scales would be chock full of wrecked trucks waiting for steering axles and trailer falling apart wating to be reloded onto a better platform. In reality, most things are maladjusted brakes which a competent driver can fix himself but is not allowed to do himself in front of the DOT. Believe it or not, there are a lot less mechanicly unfit trucks out there than there are cars. Two reasons, 1 - trucks driven by company boys are not repaired and paid for by company boys. Company boys dont like to drive things that may kill them so they stop operating them and go on the clock while the thing gets fixed or take a day off. 2 - owner operators such as myself dont like to be in Dallas Texas getting shafted by Bush's cousin for a job that could be done for fifty bucks in my hometown. Worse, paying a roadside service in some Indian reserve in Wyoming at a wiegh scale to have a brake adjusted costing me a few hundred bucks does nothing for my bottom line. 3 - (Main one) Insurance on one of these things is well over $700 a month if you don't have AAA rating. To get that, you have to get it inspected once a month, submit yourself to random drug test (yes, it's so so so anti democratic and stinks of Orwellianism but a buck is a buck) On the other hand, log book infractions are the more common occurence. See, from the moment I leave with the trailer I have max thirteen hours to drive to wherever. A four hour back up in Toronto, three hours at the border and then I catch rush hour in Detroit. Shoot, there's seven hours right there. Don't think for a second that I'm going to log eery second sitting at an fender bender, if I did, you would be paying three bucks for a loaf of bread if you could find a driver to go through all that for nothing. So, we all shift the logs around to make up for stuff like that while keeping it lined up with fueling times, border crossing tickets and stuff. One last falicy about the roads. Sorry to say but we do own them - for two reasons. 1. We pay a hell of a lot more for them in fuel taxes and permits and the like but the main reason is that roads were and always have been made expressly for commerce. It has only been in the last century that they have been, with the advent of capitalism and the liesure time and corpulent luxury that it brings been able to afford people to move further and further away from where they work. Not only that, but the sucess of capitalism has also given many the enjoyment of excess income thus allowing them to go on holiday away from their slave jobs. On the other hand, roads were essentially made by a government to move troops, ambassadors, dignataries and basicly enforce the will of the government on it's far reaching empire. The apian way was not made for Tony to get a tan on the Costa La Sol, it was so Ceasar could rule his empire. Just as the CPR was not made so people could take a scenic Snow Train, rather to ship grain to both oceans that bordered our continent. They were made for survival of the species, not the enjoyment of those who can afford to live two hours from where they work to commute. Hence, people on the highway who are not working are in reality, less in the overall right of way if you get down to it. However, in this day and age with disposable incomes, short memories of what work really is and how some did not inherit lots of money, so many dont even think of that. To say that these trucks all got pulled over at random, is crap. They were targeted by data matched with the company under who's operating authority they were hauling under (every ifraction goes onto a profile for the company) to the last inspection date big or small.) These guys inspect so many trucks that pretty much they can smell a bad wheel seal in the dark and can tell a truck that has not been cared for from one that has by the look of the outside. When was the last time you walkedinto work and suddenly had to submit to a full inspection of everything you had done that whole week, any fault was punishable by the loss of two days pay? When was the last time you had a drug test? When was the last time you drove home after working a twelve hour shift and stopped to do some grocery shopping, then drove home after that? When was the last time you took off to go skiing on a saturday morning all hungover? Think about it. Then complain to me and I'll laugh because you really don't have a clue of what you are talking about. If I am one of these renegade truck drivers you see behind every tree then you must be the drunk guy in the Hugo I see weaving all over the highway with frosted windows and bald tires with one headlight.

On my forum I am less generous than Greg. I had a spammer there for a short while while I was away. On my return, I baned his IP then set the flood control from nothing up to a minute and a half. During a four day period he had made over a hundred posts all in caps. I suspect that he had a war of some kind with a couple of the members who had come over from another forum in order to escape what else - a spammer who recited epic religious passeges, all in caps. The 'genius reflection control' is a small price to pay for board integrity I think.

No, it is as I said, she was part of a package deal. If she was told to shut up and was given every opportunity to do spo without compromising herself or her constituents then it is her problem. If that's the case, then she should be fired from political office altogether for breach of trust in both her party and electoriate as, by her refusal to follow one of her commitments, also failed her people.

No attacks on US soil since 2001. Better than a lot of freedom loving places who didn't enter the war.

When I buy a car I buy it as is, not with the tires removed when I go to pick it up. She was a package deal and Martin took that package away from the people. While I may value the stereo more than the tires, it does still not take away from the fact that I bought a car, complete. Hence, some may still feel that she represents them as an independent and other may not. In any case, all of her supporters got screwed here. You are trying to gloss over this repressive transgression by Martin but it doesn't wash. The people lost the voice they voted for.

That is not a problem of the Governent who muzzled her, that is voter apathy and ignorence of the issues. If they wanted to have an idiotic ranter so they can have a Liberal government then that is the choice they made. Parrish was well known for what she was and hence, was a package for her voters - the way she was. Not the way she may evolve or whatever. True. and thereing lies the problem. Since when is an MP not supposed to voice the opinins of their constituents? What if she went out during the Cretien government and ranted on about how we must invade Iraq alongside the US and called Cretien an idiot? It would make half the people mad and the other half would feel she was a heroine standing up against the bad old senile peckerhead. When he ousted her, half the forum would applaud the act and the other half would say that freedom of speech was lost on that day. As a regional MP, her first duty is to those who elected her, not Martin. Those people elected a Liberal politician, not an independant. Martin could have done a lot of other things rather than this. A disclaimer: I can't believe I am of this view as I think this woman belongs on a rant board rather than in politics but freedom and the system are what they are and must be upheld, even in the face of one who tries to challenge it out of triviality.

Yes, of course you are correct. As for the ridiculous notion that the US cares less for others than others do for the US, I would say that since it has been said by every left wing person at some time or another that the US is hated. Therefore, it would seem that the world is less human than the US, who, supposedly are doing this for money but do not hate anybody. Yet they are wiling to build, feed, sacrifice and give aid to those whom they do not hate. On the other hand, those who are supposedly 'better people' villify, hate, behead, belittle and actually undermine the US, whom they hate openly. I would say that to make a moral argument usiong this point is pure stupidness as no government has morals, good or bad.

Typical internationalist point of view. Like they are not supposed to worry about their own? Amnesty international. No wonder your arguemnts are out to lunch most of the time, you don't even recognize people that are your allies. Here are a few of the people who run the site, all peace activists. BTW, the banner you speak of is an anti US statement. If you relax a bit you wouldn't always be so wrong and might actually see the parody of Bush in that. Anyhow, I'm tired of this idiocy. Get your facts straight, these are your people using an accredited methodology, I had no idea you thought well educated peaceniks were idiots. My my.

More hog wash. And what troops. A bunch of scared unarmed untrained young men. That was more a USA excuse than reality and certainly did not hold up as a viable excuse. The troops that comrised the Iraqi military prior to the invasion. Surely you are not going to deny that Iraq had a repressive regime in place working for Saddam are you? So to you, had Iraq's military been of a first world order, that would make the ivasion more justifiablle? The conditions for conflict to the Left are beyond me. Who are in those mass graves? Who put them there?

Iraqi troops use people as shields. Geesh. Can a doctor cut out a cancer without making an incision or operating? Duh.

Free society, first sex change operation, legalized drugs, prostitution whatever you want, just do it. Muslims don't like this, and have full reign under such open societies. In observation of the recent Muslim backlsah here in Canada about their kids being forced to undergo a Liberal lobotomy. Where their kids have to get grade scool sensitivity training to accept gay marriage, we're next on the hit list. BTW, anybody know the words to 'The twelve days of Winter?' I need them, my kid is going caroling this year.

I like Dyer same as Margolis. Both present intelligent arguments that I can find flaws in but are, ivaritably based on fact however stretched to make their point. Like Chomsky, they rise well above the rant and conspiracy theories but always seem to leave out a larger picture (bet you would never hear that about Chomsky) that over the years, seems to forget that we did not start today yesterday. As we did not start yesterday two hundred years ago. There is and are milions of layer to this onion we try to peel in our discussions and nobody has a 100% reflection on the true answer or even the facts. What they do instead is however, try to honestly find and write what they think from what pieces of this big puzzle they can asemble and fathom. Sometimes leaving out pieces that change the aurgument and other times ading some in that don't really belong. I like them because I am sure they don't do that on purpose and yet, their intelligence gives them great credibility and I find that the facts, are always right on the money when you disassemble their arguments. For me, the revelation is when reassembling those facts and adding in my own bias I find a fuller truth. For that, I thank them greatly and respect them as well. As I said before, they are not like so many are who rant and then distort truth to jam a round truth into a square holed argument. They use logic and sound arguments.

Iraq was in violation of a ceasfire agreement in more than four violationary areas. WMD, repatriation of Kuwaiti nationals, reparation and human rights violations. They were warned repeatedly and the Member states and signatories of the agreement had authorization to do whatever it took to make Iraq comply. All this from the highest authority in the world - the UN. Which I assume superceedes any other authority. Show me something in writing that makes this illegal please. Come to think of it, wasn't this where I left you all when I posted last? And make sure you go visit Pembroke Online as well. It's a cool site with lots to offer local people and tourists alike. Legal argument

Why would they want to capture him??? His family is very good friends of the Bush family. While Americans couldn't land on American soil after the WTC attack; Several planes were arranged to quickly whisk his family out of the USA Actually, his family is made up of thousands. He is a non Saudi now as he had been scince the early ninties. Wahhabism is the religion of SA but radical Wahhabism views the Saudis as apostlates and therefore, are enemies of the state. Even though the state supports it in a way like Canada gives out free needles to drug addicts. The Saudis (wish you would check your facts, Michael Moore is not a good source) did not land and fly while planes were grounded, they were however some of the first to fly once the ban was lifted. Yes, just as Germany turned on Russia, France on America, Spain on England, Jordan on Israel, Italy on France and how Japan became friends with America and on and on and on and on. Like how Osama was a buddy and is now an enemy, same as Saddam. Things change, people and nations do not remain static, just like the forest moves and the mountains crunble, to thing politics and alliegences remain the same forever is a wonderous feat of ignorence.

Most of the oil is going to non US interests both economic and rcieving, so what are you on about? Saddam killed over 300 thousand of his own not counting wars in just under 15 years. That's 1600 a month just to have Saddam's peace. To undergo this 'horror' the USA is portrayed as bringing the Iraqis, they have averaged less than five hundred and dropping.

I had to look at it from an opposite point to come to that conclusion. What if, for example, we didn't live in a bizaro world and people we elect make sense. I vote for Parrish BECAUSE she is one of the few MPs in a government that is blatently pro US. Then, when she speaks against party policy but for me and almost half of Canada and says she thinks Americans and Bush are the best. Then gets fired. I would be pretty concerned that my elected officials and my voice in government was being trodden under foot. That's my point. The woman is an a-hole of the first order but freedom takes supersession.

I think we should realize that proportionately, fifty times more of our people are heading down there annually.

And remember, Iraq was not a country with a government elected by the people but rather a hunk of land used as a torturous playground for one man. It was not the Iraqi people who were attacked but the regime which gave that man power. The amount of people killed to date have been far less than what Saddam killed in peacetime so already, the US has saved lives. Bush, a humanitarian and you never knew it. Imagine! The Saudis have their own problems as their hold on stability is tenuous and will more than likely be challenged in the near future. Of course the US will have to come to their aid as they have a fifty year old agreement to do so but, sorry Ceasar, one thing at a time. Step by step, brick by brick, freedom will come to man.

Yes, I also forked over the twenty nine bucks to read his tale. Boring to say the least and hardly the Bob Woodward eye opener I was hoping for. This guy is part lawyer I am sure as he commits to zilch. Not to say Saddam did or did not have WMDs. Only that nothing was found up to the date of printing. he does say that facilities were kept secret, that he could not confirm there were no WMDs and also that he could not verify that Iraq had them or had none. In light of the obvious desire to retain knowlege, facilities, equipment, ability and resources to have and manufacture these hidious things in the future and given Saddams reluctence to show all, is it any wonder that people may err on the side of safety? The prospect of Saddam stalling inspectors for years playing as Blix siaid "catch as catch can' is ridiculous. Sooner or later the pressure to lift sanctions would have given forth the fruit of same and back to the sarin mode. As for reasons of provable violations of the ceasefire, one only has to count the amount of Kuwaities repatrated, money repaid, environmental damage fixed and the human rights accords he never lived up to as required in UNSC res 660. Oh, BTW, I'm glad he's not in power anymore.

I think she stinks, but some people don't. And the ones that don't are the ones who elected her. In muzzling her, Martin stifled their voice, however silly and ignorent it was Freedom failed this country here and that is a bigger issue than petty politics. Parrish Gets Pruned

Not really, it came from an editorial I wrote once. I hope you enjoyed that . Really now? I would be surprised to hear different as most of this country and the free world is Left leaning so it only makes sense in numbers. Proportionately though, I would say that each is blessed with equal amounts of intelligence. You equate intelligence from your own narrow perspective (which is a sign of a lack of it BTW). A Left leaning artist, painting a mosaic of the night sky to you, would be classified a genius possibly, but the engineer who designed part of the rocket engine to place a man in space would be a virtual Homer if their political views conflicted with yours. However, having smarts is not the end all to everything. For example, most of Lenins fellow intellectuals ended up with a bullet in the back of the head and their dreams of Socialist unity ending up in horror for their trouble. Of course, most weren't true socialists, mainly playing the Left card for the University and Intellectual crowd, but before most got deep sixed, they managed to put away pretty much any Left (and right) genius they could lay their hands on. Hardly the mark of a really smart buch of guys. Pol Pots fellow intellectuals ended their days the same. Allende was pretty with it as well, but forgot that he had to be firm and he couldn't please everybody all the time, he only needed a gentle push over the cliff courtesy of the USA backed Christian Democrats and the Military. The masses who he had turned his back on once too many times were powerless to help. In the end, he went down like a Right Winger though, pistol in hand but to have succeeded, he would have had to be a Socialist Dictator with a little more oppressive tendencies. As he was, he truely was Left and in that was his weakness. He had to deal with a real world with real problems and his methods didn't cut it. Well, to help you a bit, he is fairly well educated, I'll bet a few hundred bucks that he is more than most of the Left leaning people on this board anyways. That includes you if you didn't figure that one out. Does that make you an idiot? You be the judge, are you a fighter pilot or do you hold a Bachelors Degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard or anything close? If so then I appoligise, if not, you have a strange way to define lack of intelligence. I suppose in the light of my last comment you will go back to some sort of childish rant like 'Daddy got it for him' or whatever. Anyways, here are some credentials of those who are dumb in your books and those who are smart. You will note the 'smart guys' are drop outs and such. This was a good example of an emotional rant. Emotional because to describe Bush as evil one would have to redefine evil. We currently figure evil is something like concentration camps and killing fields. Genetic and ethnic cleansing, medical experiments on Jewish and Gypsy prisoners, yet you can classify Bush as evil. I calssify your definition as lack of reality to what true evil is. You have a narrow view, very restrained. I thought you were more expansive than that. Neville Chamberlain was Left, he was very wrong. Pol Pot was Left wing as well, and also wrong. Stalin pretended to be Left, and he was right. Einstien was left and he sold out to the right. Gahndi was left and helped propegate the deaths and mutilation of thousands of his own in the campaign of nonviolence (huh?). Churchill was right and also right thank God. Kennedy was Left and he was right. All in all, it is a strange mix the political world makes with no side having the clear road to right and wrong. Your statement shows a lack of understanding that is emphasized by your bravado. Unconcern of the status quo? Once again you show a narrow mind and a conceit that reveals your lack of an open mind. Some of the greatest advances in history have been by Right minded people and organizations. You cannot have peace without security and the world was not always a gentle place with rules and laws. Yes, the left would drift off. We have witnessed the Left when unrestrained by the reality of the Right, purges, executions by the millions, massive starvation and expansionism globally on a scale never seen by humankind, rampent poverty and lack of basics but to call them the sole proprietors of advance is true folly. Here, as a treat I give you Orson Welles from 'The Third Man.' (A great movie if you can put up with the much overdone continual zither background music.) 'In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.' The Left. As I noted above. However, you are here,doing the starving artist routine. BTW, did you know that CarLy Simon got her big break from being the daughter of Simon of Simon and Shuster? Anyways, the starving artist, how romantic. They are usually the first ones to go, just before the agitated university crowd, but just after the homosexuals and the diseased. I made a mature effort to bring forth diffences but you want to keep this as a competition. Go for it. You have a history of losing arguments with me and Hugo, usually bringing up some proof but in inadiquate amounts and quality to make a strong point. If you are that unsure of yourself that you cannot join the discussion about the inherent differences between the Left and Right without keeping a one upmanship attitude and some sorty of chip on your shoulder that tells me a lot about your intellect and open mind. Thereroe, I will drop this attempt to talk about our basic differences and go back to the thread.