ponyboy

We screwed First Nations people from the start.We continue to screw them.This country was built on lies and broken promises.Makes me ashamed to call myself canadian and my families been here since 1764.All you whiners are like small children,BOO-HOO the First Nations get something we don't.For god sakes grow up!!!! Honor ALL treaties.

Here's a message back at ya. I have no issue at all with any minority. You are the racist here. It is you who is saying one group deserves something for no other reason than birthright. A week ago I would have said Give the Natives half of all crown land left undeveloped. I didn't care about a treaty then either. I just felt it was more than a generous offer and it would put and end to this militantism that is becoming a pattern. The Natives would have more than enough land to practice their way of life and ancient traditions. I thought it would be something good. But now I know even that much land would never be enough. All the Land, is what they want. Apparently, as it has been expressed on this board, they are more willing to go as far as to starve people out of their homes if that what it takes. Well that is another, Native supporter the extremist Natives of this board have converted. Didn't you read my post,i said i learned it in my travels,WHAT's that got to do with First Nations posts here? What is it with you and riv whenever you get the chance you scream racist.I'm not the one trying to steal someone elses land.I bet you've got a government job Right?

Where did I say that those 500,000 deserve rights because they are white? I would assume that a good percentage of them are not white. They deserve to have their democratic rights respected because they are human. Their race has nothing to do with it. As yes, your racism comes out again. Sorry, I don't buy that all white people are guilty crap. People of all races have committed atrocities over the ages and whites are no exception. However, there are a few principals that are designed to ensure that such atrocities do not happen in the future. One of those principals is that everyone has equal rights not matter what their genetic heritage. That is a principal that you claimed to support during the civil rights movement. However, that is a principal that you have abandoned when it comes to Six Nations. Why is that? You truly do talk in circles riv.Oh! I was also supporting the civil rights movement so that they could receive the forty acres and a mule that old Abe promised them.But like the two-faced governments of this country,they don't honor their promises in" Merica "either. God! This is too easy!

Clever. But misguided "clever but misguided"That your answer? That's what i like about you neo-cons,when you don't have an answer you just bail.Have you ever been to Cuba?I have, great country,great people.I've met more than enough to know that most are a little tired of the Miami Cubans telling them how great they have it in america.All america wants with Cuba is to turn it back into a playground.Never gonna happen. Yup, I've been to Cuba. Oppressed, downtrodden. Have you ever left a resort? I took a Jeep out into real Cuba for a few days (got bored of the beach) and let me tell you these people live like shit. None of them are allowed to travel abroad or speak their minds in conversation without fearing oppression. Many don't have running water or even access to clean water. Food is what they can scrap together most of the time. Plantation farming has workers pressed to the max with no legal allowance to find other work outside the backbreaking labour. You must forget there is no freedom in Cuba, no matter how well Castro can make his people look in the 10km around the resort. It's awful high and mighty of you to tell a people they are living great when they have no freedom in their everyday lives. It's something you obviously take for granted. WHEN were you there,actually i was there for six months teaching them the tricks of the trade on their new Kiboda tractors.That was just over a year ago,there were all kinds of Ag people studying their production methods.David Suzuki was suppose to do a story on it. Oh SNAP! Your an idiot son!

There are 20,000 Six Nations people and 500,000+ non-aboriginal people living on what they call 'their land'. Those 500,000+ people have democratic rights that cannot be denied. These rights include the right to vote to keep the land they occupy and seperate from any hypothetical Six Nations state. What don't you understand about that? So explain why you would deny the democratic right of 500,000 people to choose the nation that they wish to be a part of. The only logical explaination for your views is that you have decided that the rights of aboriginals are more important that the rights of non-aboriginals. IOW, only people with the correct genetic background are important in your world. Take a look around the world riverwind,tell me why you would blindly support people of our genetic make up after the Havoc they have caused.My suspicions are you have never been outside your own little bubble unless of course it was to take an UGLY American holiday in a five star hotel and tsk. tsk. at all the poverty around you.Because your White doesn't always make you Right. As for your other idiotic statement,the whites have denied democratic rights to every country they have ever set foot in,they had the guns so they had the power.you are such an easy target.

We're not claiming sovereignty...we have never lost it! As for your money you'll have to take that up with your Queen I'm afraid. Canada by way of Her Magesty is still paying her outstanding debts to us. Speak for yourself Geoffy,stop using the we,you don't speak for me.My money goes to First Nations,yours can go Oh! the neo-cons,i don't really care.

If the treaties are invalid, why am I paying for post-secondary education for Indians? Or subsidizing their businesses by allowing them to operate tax free on reserve land? If there is no treaty in place and all the Indian laws are invalid, then it's just pure racism against me. So why do you get the benefits of an agree and none of the costs apply? Oh! Geoffy,you are hilarious,that sounds like that old bugga boo used against those on welfare.Guess what,your money's not being used for what you say,my money is,your money's are being used to support george w's clone little stevie.There does that make you feel better.That's what makes me laugh about those who complain about their money going to those on welfare,i'm sure those on welfare have all kinds of relatives working who don't begrudge their tax dollars being used for those who really need it. Not the slugs who never work,i mean the ones stuck in a rut.

Pretty silly accusation for someone who openly supports the creation of aboriginal fiefdoms where non-aboriginals will have no right to vote. What happened in your life that made you convert from person that believed in equal democratic rights for all to someone that only supports democratic rights for people with the correct genetic background? There you go again,aboriginal fiefdoms??It's their land,what don't you understand about that? You called me a house white boy,then you accuse me of supporting democratic rights only for those "with the correct genetic background.You want to see a real racist,look in the mirror.What happened in your life to make you so afraid of the truth???

Interesting spin. I agree that there is some comparison - aboriginals are just like the plantation owners in the old south who lost their privileges because society decided that inherited privileges are incompatible with egalitarian democratic principals. Native activists today are like descendants of the plantation owners demanding that they be given their land back and the right to deny non-aboriginal people living on those lands the right to vote.I look forward to the day when native activists will be brought kicking and screaming into the new century were the legacies of feudalism and inherited privilege are thrown in dustbin of history and all citizens are equal - no matter who their ancestors were. The old south was full of people like you - blacks who believed that they deserved to have second class status and, as a result, supported the white plantation owners in their efforts to protect their 'way of life'. Maybe we should just call you a 'house white boy'. "House white boy"you talk in circles riverwind.When it comes to the law and morality you seem to be all over the place.I was in the south in 1965,Selma and Birmingham i saw very few of those blacks you describe,perhaps you should think before you talk.

Canada has a right to control trade through its territory - that is the law. If Six Nations respects the law then they will have to sit down and negotiate a free trade agreement. If Six Nations chooses to violate Canada's territorial rights by smuggling goods then Six Nations is the aggressor. So what would Six Nations do: respect the law and negotiate a free trade agreement or use violance to take what they have no right to? You mean like the violence the Canadian government used at oh,Oka,Ipperwash,Caledonia???What if we white boys did the smuggling.i'd fight oppression in ALL it,s ugly forms.The american south was full of people like you,HEY! guess what,THE BLACKS GOT THE VOTE.Welcome to the twenty first century riverwind. Oh wow another one that gets taken to school and starts crying "Racist". You've really got a reading and comprehension issue. If you read the post it says "we white boys"! He said, and I quote: "The american south was full of people like you,HEY! guess what,THE BLACKS GOT THE VOTE." He is calling Riverwind a racist. Don't matter if he is white. He is still calling Riverwind racist. Don't be such a bunch of thin skinned fools.I called no one a racists,the south was full of people like you,they sat around wringing their hands showing their fear of change and murmuring oh! woe is me,why can't things just stay the same.Hence "The Blacks got the vote,welcome to the twenty-first century".Times change get over it, wrongs are righted and people like you are brought kicking and screaming into a brand new day.Wipe your tears little ones,the big bad Natives aren't gonna hurt you. Message to Who's Doing what.I got taken to school with a job that took me all over this country for the last forty years.I've seen how the likes of you treat all minorities,don't talk to me until you've spent some time walking in someone elses shoes.Oh! Ya! mommy and daddy gave you everything you ever wanted you wouldn't last a day.

Canada has a right to control trade through its territory - that is the law. If Six Nations respects the law then they will have to sit down and negotiate a free trade agreement. If Six Nations chooses to violate Canada's territorial rights by smuggling goods then Six Nations is the aggressor. So what would Six Nations do: respect the law and negotiate a free trade agreement or use violance to take what they have no right to? You mean like the violence the Canadian government used at oh,Oka,Ipperwash,Caledonia???What if we white boys did the smuggling.i'd fight oppression in ALL it,s ugly forms.The american south was full of people like you,HEY! guess what,THE BLACKS GOT THE VOTE.Welcome to the twenty first century riverwind. Oh wow another one that gets taken to school and starts crying "Racist". You've really got a reading and comprehension issue. If you read the post it says "we white boys"! He said, and I quote: "The american south was full of people like you,HEY! guess what,THE BLACKS GOT THE VOTE." He is calling Riverwind a racist. Don't matter if he is white. He is still calling Riverwind racist. Don't be such a bunch of thin skinned fools.I called no one a racists,the south was full of people like you,they sat around wringing their hands showing their fear of change and murmuring oh! woe is me,why can't things just stay the same.Hence "The Blacks got the vote,welcome to the twenty-first century".Times change get over it, wrongs are righted and people like you are brought kicking and screaming into a brand new day.Wipe your tears little ones,the big bad Natives aren't gonna hurt you.

North western Quebec???Tell that to the Cree fool. See how foolish YOU are. Actually, this area of land has no Indian settlement, I've talked to Cree about it, as you called me, fool. Oh well though, I'm sure you actually believe the Indians are entitled to all the country so there is no point arguing about it. If my family was there first though, even though we gave up the land in a 'treaty' with another party (ie. purchase agreement), do I have the right to claim it? If not, why do you? If the treaties were invalid.I remember reading an article which stated,because the First Nations people did not have a good understanding of English,the government of the day would use the word "cede" rather than the plain english give up,hence they would tell them,there duty was to cede the land,the first Nations thought they were talking about 'seed" of course they signed.you want to defend scum that would do such a thing?

Canada has a right to control trade through its territory - that is the law. If Six Nations respects the law then they will have to sit down and negotiate a free trade agreement. If Six Nations chooses to violate Canada's territorial rights by smuggling goods then Six Nations is the aggressor. So what would Six Nations do: respect the law and negotiate a free trade agreement or use violance to take what they have no right to? You mean like the violence the Canadian government used at oh,Oka,Ipperwash,Caledonia???What if we white boys did the smuggling.i'd fight oppression in ALL it,s ugly forms.The american south was full of people like you,HEY! guess what,THE BLACKS GOT THE VOTE.Welcome to the twenty first century riverwind.

The greatest challenge to little stevie is getting re-elected.All those angry votes against the libs have had a chance to see what a fool Harper is.

I never advocated violence at all. In fact, I suggested that Canada use a non-violent trade blockade. You are the one who insisted that Canada could not enforce such a blockade because Six Nations has access to Lake Erie. I simply pointed out that Six Nations is a land locked reserve and that the only way Six Nations could get access to the water is if it used violence to occupy terroritory that currently belongs to Canada.As I said before, Canada has no need to use any violence in the Six Nations dispute since Canada has all of the legal an economic advantages. That said, many people in Canada would like to see a negotiated settlement but that settlement is not going include the return of most of the Grand River lands. Accept that principal and you would likely find that the gov't is willing to be quite generous in its offers. Gee Riverwind,your posts sure blow the theory that we need more women in politics because they are kinder and gentler.As for non-violent trade block-ades how are you gonna enforce that with all us white friends of Six Nations running around?As at Oka,Ipperwash, and now Cali the only violence came from the white side.Are you related to Bushes friend stevie?

Clever. But misguided "clever but misguided"That your answer? That's what i like about you neo-cons,when you don't have an answer you just bail.Have you ever been to Cuba?I have, great country,great people.I've met more than enough to know that most are a little tired of the Miami Cubans telling them how great they have it in america.All america wants with Cuba is to turn it back into a playground.Never gonna happen.

Anythig you get on google maps/earth is not realtime or up to date. That could be an old map, but could still be valid in the information. And you think the U.S of A doesn't have military secrets all over their country,thats what i like about america they think their the only ones should have the power.

No but we have treaties and Proclamations that say we do!!! They're better then a deed because they give us TITLE to our land!!! You might as well talk to a post Okwaho. if he started to believe what is true,he would have to question everything he has done in his life,trolls like him don't have the courage to take that journey.

North western Quebec???Tell that to the Cree fool. See how foolish YOU are.

1. You are living in the past. I'm sure Russia regrets selling Alaska too. It is simply too late to say "pay up or get out". The world has arrived, and it is not leaving. 2. You speak of all your people shared with the Europeans as you type on your computer, using electricity, inside your heated home, wearing european style clothing, and spending european style money, none of which you would have without the europeans arrival in North America. 3. If it has nothing to do racial superiority, why are only natives given land? It has been shown, Natives are people who came, not only from Asia across the land bridge, but also from Europe.(search:Clovis point) Most likely across the frozen North Atlantic. So if I can trace my ancestry back to those Europeans, or someone else trace their history to the Asians, who first arrived here and became the "Natives" shouldn't I or they also get some land? Since before the europeans came over to North america, the entire population of european humans at one point had only 6 or so women, a lot of people could be entitled to land. Actually if we go back far enough, we're all cousins anyway. So in that light, everyone is just as entittled to the land as everyone else. 4. Staging roadblocks, causing property damage and bullying police, does nothing to further the native's cause. For every roadblock that goes up and zealous non-native that joins your movement, 50 or 100 other Canadians, shake their heads with disgust and embarrassment. I know that if it had been a bunch of Scottish, English and Irish descended Canadians, the military would have been sent in to kick their bloody arses. The cops would have used tear gas and riot gear instead of being intimidated into doing nothing. If the Natives rock the boat too hard you will lose all the extra liberties you have. How would you like to pay Taxes? Or pay for your hunting and fishing licenses? The natives have some pretty good perks, why would you want to risk them? Why would she respond when, as she pointed out, you were rude. There are legal realities here that you seem unaware of. The government of Canada is in negotiations with Six Nations because they have a valid land claim for land granted to them, taken by Canada "in trust", and not paid for. Here's a legal reality for you. Ain't gonna happen. How's that? So when the Natives are done alienating the entire nation and we vote in a govt that promises to "deal with the native issue" and the govt. eliminates all the privilages natives currently enjoy, and does away with all treaties, where will the natives be? The only reason a 300 yr old claim is given any consideration of validity is because enough of the populace believes it is important. If you alienate everyone, you lose the only thing you had going for you. You want reality Who's doing what.Check out Haida Gwi,check out the new treaty with the Niska pardon my spelling,those treaties should be the model.Are you an American?You sound like that great yankee hero custer.Go shovel your B.S somewhere else,your paranoia tires me.

The short answer yes.However lets not stop with the jews,lets also look at First Nations and blacks as well,this country has been living the, we are not racist lie for far,far too long.just look at who they elected Federally now,a bush backing,bible thumping red neck....Harper.I wish these so called Christians would practise what they preach.Their way is not the only way,but try and tell them that.

"Do you think the Muslims would have reacted differently if the people placed in that corner of the world had been Christians, or, say, Hindus?" Isn't that the Arab point,didn't the Americans help PLACE the jewish people into at that time Palestine,because after the nazi atrocities the people said it was their homeland. No. First, the Americans didn't place Jews anywhere. The Zionist movement for a Jewish homeland was well-underway, and many Jews had "returned" to Palestine (see ancient history) before the United Nations divided that area of Palestine which remained (after one large section was sliced away and given independance as Trans Jordan) between the Jews and the Muslims there. The Jews made up about 66% of the population in the area which was set aside for them. Obviously that number climbed as more Jews began to come to the new Israel. Because that was not where the Jews saw their homeland as being, and because it wasn't 2/3rd Jewish. I imagine if the mafia started bombing people (nice racist comparison there, btw) the police would go in and arrest them. The problem in Lebanon was that the police were working with the bombers, and the government supported them - hell, they're part of the government. Gee!my Italian mother and her family didn't find it racist. I certainly hope with your views on Israel you give the same respect and support to First Nations people. My fears are you won't.Have a nice day.Also,Thanks Charles Anthony,an open mind is a wonderful thing.

. [ "Do you think the Muslims would have reacted differently if the people placed in that corner of the world had been Christians, or, say, Hindus?"Isn't that the Arab point,didn't the Americans help PLACE the jewish people into at that time Palestine,because after the nazi atrocities the people said it was their homeland.Why didn't they place them in say, New York State.I often wonder if the American Indians declared the Black Hill their sacred grounds(which they are to some) and started pushing "white" Americans out,would the American government support them????I think not.I find what the israeli government is doing in Lebanon sickening.If the Mafia started bombing people,would Bush send fighter bombers and tanks into every little italy in America????

None of the things that the Canadian gov't has done come close to that definition. Assimilation is not genocide - in fact the overwhelming majority of countries in the world have assimilation as a national policy. Canada with it policies on multi-culturalism today is one of the few countries that does not pressure minority groups to assimilate. Canada most definitely has committed genocide. The removal of children from their homes ... see -e- ... and systematic abuse of children to destroy their culture (needles through their tongues if they spoke their own language) under government policy, mandate and supervision. In 1907, a government commissioned report indicated 50% death rate in the residential schools ... and was quickly squashed. In 1922 the government chose to proceed with ... the final solution... continued destruction of Indigenous people through the residential school system. In 1924 traditional religion and governance was criminalized ... and at Six Nations when the RCMP arrived to violently break up the Haudenosaunee Confederacy Council, they also stole the treaty documents nand wampum belts ... evidence of intention to destroy the people rather than honour the legal treaties. The facts of Canadas actions to destroy Indigenous people are horrific. I really do not care what other countries did ... I want Canadan to step up and own its actions ... like any decent person is expected to do ... and honour the agreements we made with our allies. There is no other way to live in peace with our neighbours. If they are treated respectfully through the land claims processes, we will gain a stronger more mature country. If they are disrespected ... again ... Canada consigns itself to the rubbish bin of greed and ongoing strife. You cannot deal effectively with them with the tactics you use here to intimidate people, Riv. Apartheid ... race based rights ... crapola ... They were sovereign nations that we made treaties with ... and then we stabbed them in the back. All else is just whining and excuse making ... or attempt to again force them into submission. Better get ovet that idea ... You go Saga,it occurs to me that if,,,you support Israels right to exist,but do not support First Nations rights,Then that is subjective racism to the nth degree.I am so tired of those who would attack FN people for going after their rights.If the American blacks had not stood up to their racist neighbors in the south,they would still be riding at the back of the bus and hanging in trees.