Jerry J. Fortin

You can say what you want, the reality is that as long as your kind exists the natives already have all they deserve. In fact they have more than they deserve in as much as native privileges outrank non-native citizens rights. As long as people like you demand that you receive at the expense of others, you have no respect from me and many others. Should you desire equality there would be many who would support your efforts, myself included. Unfortunately that is simply not the case, you ask for more than you deserve and you demand special privileges that other citizens cannot have. That makes your efforts both foolish and racist. It is my hope that the leaders of your people wise up, and the nut cases of your people simple shut up. Maybe then the natives in this nation could hope to see some resolution within their lifetime. I think it far more likely that the nonsense will continue and that you will live your lives waiting for something that will never happen because of your own greed and ignorance. A solution could easily be found that is acceptable to all concerned, but that will simply never happen until the people of the first nations gain a little enlightenment. Not all natives are fools, yet most citizens only hear about them and from them and that puts a bad light on any effort whether real or il-conceived. Give it some thought people, do what is right. Stop using your mouths to shoot yourselves in the feet and wake up and smell the coffee. Get a grip folks......

I don't think smart has much to do with this problem. The problem itself seeks a resolution, and in order to do that reasonable people need to sit down and reach an agreement. The current position of both parties involved is unreasonable. With that in mind, any agreement is a pipe dream. Any solution that can be agreed upon is welcomed by the citizens of this nation. There is however a tendency to ask for too much. and that happens from both sides. As a citizen, I cannot condone any agreement that would cost me any more money. We pay too much tax in this country as it is, increasing that level would have detrimental impact to the government.

I will suggest that you and your friends read back a few pages and then admit that your statement is blatantly false. I would further suggest that you and the rest of your gay friends write a paper about what that stuff you drink tastes like. I am not a vodka kinda guy, but I can write a nice little story about Scotch.....I know its not creamy like the goo your kind swallows but what can I say.

The demands are not relevant to me. The reality is far more important and far more pressing upon this nation. Forget the spin and dig into the true issue, these folks are poor. Forget how or why, forget who is responsible. The only real responsibility is to act, and that is the function of the federal government. There are Canadian citizens in need, and the simple fact is that they are ENTITLED to attention from the federal government. The real question should be what is to be done about the situation? They are no different from any other citizen of this land. As such they should have the same rights. Our problem with the First Nations is that we treat them differently than we treat other citizens. This alone prevents those citizens from attaining the same opportunities that the rest of us have. Of course this is not the fault of the government but of themselves because they are the one that their representatives have said ARE in fact different. So the difference are those created by them, they have made their own bed so to speak. If they truly want change they must look within for the answers. To that end I suggest that the government simply treat them as they treat all other citizens, stop handing out money to the groups altogether.

The CPC is only getting warmed up. Schieber has not gone away either. This is just one thing after another. Give it some time and watch how this all plays out. I will suggest that within the next six months there will be six more scandals to deal with.

Let them rave all they want. It won't change anything at all. Their antics are what causes them all their grief. I still say the way to shut them up is to cut the funding to the bands. Perhaps those that advocate sending money to individuals have a valid point in as much as that alone would serve to wake up the representatives to the depth of the problem. We have entire communities on what can be called welfare, that is simply wrong. People need to earn their keep and take care of themselves in order to have any value to society and themselves. The time has come to do somethig about the problem. There really are citizens in need, and that is not supposed to happen in this country. I don't really give a damn why this has happened but it cannot continue. Every day that it does make the government and therefore the citizens of this nation look bad.

I don't owe those people a dime. Perhaps you do, but I don't. I don't know who the "we" you speak of but is sure isn't me.

Excellent points jbg! However I still think the way to deal with the problem is to cut off all funding, first. After that you can be sure to have their attention. On the other hand to support your point cutting out the middle man has great appeal. The thing to keep in mind is that individual natives own ZERO land. The land belongs to the band, and the leaders of the band get the money from the feds. It is a bad setup to be sure, and that is why I want to see it changed. Having said that, it is not up to me or any other people that are not native to decide how they distribute the funds given to them. There is the rub, and there is the support for your point. If the funding was distributed to the individual adults on a per capita basis there would be much discussion in the bands. That would empower the women over the men for starters. They have the same single mother problems we do on our side of the fence. To cut out their leadership may cause some concerns from that corner to be sure and yet I can certainly see the logic of your proposal. Who knows what the reaction would be? It is time to find out though.

Maybe the answer is to just quit giving ALL of them money. Lets see how long it take to get them to the table to negotiate. Perhaps then we could actually get somewhere with resolving the issues. Cut off all funding period for anything other than health care and education. Its time to settle this, both the government and the bleeding hearts can feel the wrath of those who are left funding and receiving the tax dollars. Let the issue explode so we can get busy finding a resolution. I favour self government. Let them keep what they already have, but lets not get carried away. Tax them like everyone else, or let them tax themselves to fund their own services. It isn't that complicated, somebody has to pay for this stuff, the only question is who and how much. I say that they should have to pay their own way like everyone else or just admit their desire to be useless burdens on society. There are no free rides.

Hey Danger Mouse, good points! I would have to say that the person would be an outdoors person. Lots of those folks around isn't there! I have no problem with those kind of activities at all, probably because that is right up my alley. I hunt with a camera, but I love to fish. Natives have the opportunity to enjoy these things as much as the next person. I like outdoors folks, they are my kind of people. However I don't like affirmative action, can't say that I like much of the special rights crowd, be they corporate or political or even environmental types. I believe in equality and individual rights and certainly don't have much use for group rights to much extent at all. The individual is the key, and many of them together make society possible. Yet none of them need society to be individuals, if you follow my meaning.

Let me be clear you racist idiot, the time has come to face reality. Your race is no longer discriminated against, mine is. Add to that point my sex is now being discriminated against as well. The "white man" is treated as pond scum and moved to the bottom of the pile. That is simply legal discrimination, as is the entire concept of affirmative action. It is wrong, and in my opinion it should be stopped. The right thing to do is make qualifications and opportunity blind to both race and sex to make an even foundation. That is what the law should do, protect individual rights. In my opinion rights apply to all, not any specific group because when you enact legislation in that manner you in fact create privilege instead of rights. That is where we are going wrong here! People of First Nations deserve no more and no less than any other person in this country. The entire concept of doing anything else in in way shape or form is disgusting to me. Yet some here believe otherwise, and for them their ways seem to be superior. I believe that to be a racist attitude. I must repeat that no citizen in this country should have any more right than another. The concept that natives of the First Nations group should be entitled to own land when no other citizen in this country has that legal right is immoral and fundamentally flawed in my opinion. That is the basis of my argument, the flawed constitutional document that we now have divests all other citizens of this right while it protects the land already in possession of First Nations and leaves the door open for even greater gains for these people while ignoring the rights of the rest of the citizens. Do I think that natives have been wronged at some point in history, yes. Yet that does not mean that the proper solution to that problem is to punish everyone else forever. It does not mean that this nation should go belly up or kowtow to this group or any other specific group of citizens. It does mean that ALL citizens should have equal rights. I favour native self government, I honestly view that as a form of municipal government nothing more or less. As such they would be granted no more and no less than any other group of Canadian citizens. In my view that is the proper way to seek resolution to the current problem. The entire concept of giving away huge tracts of land is foolish. Enough land to set up and operate a municipality where they can govern themselves is sufficient. As far as hunting and fishing rights go, I believe they already have the right to hunt on crown land and that is sufficient so there is no requirement for lands for this purpose. I truly do want a resolution to the problems we face, yet I am unable to simply give away the farm, not at the expense of others.

It seems that my CPC elected representative has no desire to deal with FN. He fears something, what I don't know. It appeas that for at least the moment, we will continue to listening to the garbage being spewed about the issue at hand. Its a sad commentary on our society that put race and privilege ahead of rights.

Like I said before lets not be politically correct here. First Nations call themselves whatever they want. They can deny their Canadian citizenship. The can and have done what they want to this point. Now having established these little facts, I suggest that we simply stop funding anything to do with aboriginal affairs. Clearly we are not entitled to any form of opinion regarding their culture heritage, race or whatever in the opinions of some. I must agree with them. So why should we give them a dime? They are not Canadian, have now regard for our laws and society and don't want to pay for the benefits of citizenship like everybody else in this nation is compelled to do. So thank-you charter of rights and all the rest of your supporters or those like minded to your thinking, you have convinced me that there is only one solution to this problem. You should be free to do as you please and I suggest that Canada do exactly that. I will be writing to my MP and ask him to support my position on this. I will start over the next few months to gain access to public meeting and bring this point to the attention of citizens. I don't know how successful I will be but I am sure every little bit will help. Canada can realize huge savings from eliminating the expense of giving away money to people who are not Canadian, the money can be better spent at home. As to your culture there folks, I no longer care to discuss it nor care to study it. You have made your feelings very clear. In my opinion you folks are racist and petty. There is no room in my heart for you and again I must thank you for changing my mind. You shall reap what you sew people. Oh yes, good luck forcing this nation to do anything through OUR court system you bunch of fools.

Great, we will never learn. To politicize the Olympics is a very foolish mistake. Especially considering where they are being hosted. The world does not need to cause reasons for China to feel isolated or threatened, such actions will lead to very troubling times.

Materialism will be the cause of the collapse.

True enough, it would also seem that people believe we live in a democracy, but that does not make it true. Soon enough that little fact will become known to citizens. When that happens the government will discover just exactly what democracy means. It will be the end of the current form of government, a new system shall rise from the ashes of what is destroyed. Make no mistake, it will be literally destroyed.

Remember these words you read here this night; It will come to pass that the mighty few shall fall, and the rise of the many will eclipse all that has gone before.

Here is a fact for you, things change. Here is another fact, the people of the First Nations have themselves changed. To be true to the traditions of their heritage they are supposed to live off the land not my tax dollars. They are to live in harmony with nature, not ravage the land for its resources. They are to hunt and fish and farm to the extent of their needs, not to profit from the sale of these resources. They are to preserve and protect their language and culture, not have somebody do it for them. This so called quest for equality is little more than discrimination against the victors by the vanquished. Never before in history have such demands such as those put forward by the defeated peoples ever come to pass. Nor should they, because they are unreasonable and delusional. The once proud race of native culture in North America was destroyed by the Europeans, that is true. It is as true as the demise of the mammoth and the Great Plains Buffalo. They now cease to exist. Lets leave the world of fantasy alone for the purpose of debate. The First Nations peoples are going to come up against a wall of public resentment if they are not careful. Excessive demands are confrontational and are truely detrimental to the best interests of the people of the First Nations. A more realistic goal is to seek a true reserve of land somewhere in which they can maintain their true culture and heritage and live in the old ways. It would be realistic to add the modern advents of education and health care, but to the extent that their culture was preserved and protected. These things western culture could not deny, but to threaten the very nature of our society with crippling penalties for the sins of our fathers is tantamount to the threat of war or at least violent reaction. That is simply foolish and counter-productive. Let the harsh reality of cold reason light the darkness of errors from the past. Let the heart of the people live in the warmth of traditional values. Let the vision of peace and the contentment of prosperity reach the very souls of the people through their own effort. Now is the time to walk forward using what is behind us as a guide to where we wish to go. We need to improve the situation of ALL of the peoples of this land, not merely those of the natives.

In this debate folks have forgotten a very crucial element, that of the structure of our society. In our society we have the government creating law, but let us not forget the judicial system which enforces the laws. It is that corner of civil administration that we need to look into in order to preserve and protect the citizenry, not the elected administrators of government. WE must not forget the roles being played and their affect on society. Our entire structure of government has been and still is flawed in this regard. No form of government is perfect and all need revisions and modifications from time to time, but the foundation of good government has always been that of the constitutional framework under which the entire basis for a society is based. Henceforth the legal structure is the key to society, in other words the rule of law is the basis for government in the first place. To take this a step further it is the willingness of the citizens to accept a set of laws that makes the functioning of government possible for without the consent of the people, no set of laws can be enacted without revolt. Therefore the people are supreme in their ability to determine the power and authority of government through constitutional means. Which is to say that a majority of people approve a set of common laws that can be accepted as the foundation of the society in which we decide to live. Those common laws which we accept as the rule of law in our society determine the scope of government. This is where we have gotten ourselves into trouble. Currently the scope of government has taken liberties with the population to the point where our rights are subject to the approval of government, this is of course completely backward from what it should be. The government should have only the rights granted to it by the people. The government is no more than a legal citizen, it is not a natural citizen and therefore it should be correctly placed as a servant or instrument of the people not its master. Until we resolve this situation the entire question of rights is a moot point because we have given over power and authority over us to government. We have taken much for granted and been lax in our own responsibility of due diligence to the extent that we have forfeited our democratic rights. We can of course change the situation but only after the democratic disease of apathy has been put to rest. Until then we are literally pissing into the wind.

There are no shortages of idiots, then or now. Witness the state of affairs we now find ourselves in. Fools have been acting as our representatives for many years and it is time to act in the interests of all. End the foolishness and solve the problem.

The Americans are pouring billions of dollars a day out of the country to buy goods produced by others and are spending billions of dollars a months to keep their military ventures in bombs and bullets. Go figure that the people themselves are in debt as well as the nation as a whole. The size of personal and government debt is staggering, and at this point collecting on that debt is becoming more difficult as jobs and disposable family income are taking a negative direction in terms of growth. Growth is what the entire American system is based upon. Without it things will become more complicated than they already are. The Americans are indeed in great trouble. That does not bode well for the rest of us.

Like I said before, enough of the political correctness, deal with the situation. That simple fact is that there are outstanding land claims, they need to be resolved. The simple fact is that the natives have decided they want self government, they should have it if they want it. The simple fact is that it is costing the government of Canada and therefore the citizens of Canada billions of dollars a year the run the Indian and Northern Affairs Department, we need to realize that this is a bullshit department and abolish it immediately and eliminate that portion of budget resources dedicated to it. It is a bottomless money pit that provides no benefit to citizens at all. All First nations that want to receive any benefit from the Government of Canada need to start paying taxes, period. All First nations lands occupied by tax paying citizens must revert their mineral resources to the Federal Government. All First nations desiring self government can pay there way as any other nation on this earth must do. Wake up people, this is serious business. For now, they way to begin to deal with the problem each band, group tribe must be polled to determine their chosen status as either citizens of Canada or as citizens of the First Nations. Canadian citizens have all the benefits of citizenship, First Nations citizens have all the benefits that they can provide for their own citizens at their own expense. I say these things not to infuriate the natives but to impress upon all the urgency of the situation and the reality of the circumstances. The time has come to grow up and make some decisions, and that applies to both groups. We have treated the First Nations people like children for far to long, its time to treat them like adults. We need to force the decision making process into a resolution instead of this incessant bickering which serves no purpose to the people of Canada.

I have had enough political correctness. It is time to call a spade a spade. The people that call themselves First Nations need to be dealt with. All land claims need to be settled immediately, and an end to this foolish legal wrangling. To that end, I will suggest that all funding for First Nations be eliminated pending the court decisions on land claims. Any band, nation or tribe that decides to pay taxes and receive the benefits of citizenship must be allowed to do so. All others should be granted self government and have the right to self determination. All mineral rights should revert to the Government of Canada where self government is not desired. There, and end that is fair and reasonable. Get a freaking job and support yourselves like everyone else, or choose to live in grass huts and worship the sun if you want. You can't have it both ways. Either the First Nations want to preserve their heritage, and desire to keep their own language;hunt and fish while living without central heating and plumbing or they don't. If they desire to live under our terms in our society they are free to do so, but then they will be required to live like us and pay taxes like us. They will only be allowed to hunt and fish like us.

I don't recall saying there was anything easy about this problem or any other international problem. I said that is isn't complicated. The US isn't even trying to leave Iraq, as of this moment, that is. They have no desire to do so at the moment, at least from a foreign policy perspective. The national interests of the United States took them there, and are keeping them there. When it is in the national interest to leave they will do so. As to conditions in our theater, ...well let me just say that Canada needs to understand that we have been involved in a war for some time now. Our low rate of loss does not mean anything other than the fact that our people in country are doing a damned good job at staying alive while being involved in a shooting war.

Brian was no better and no worse than the rest of the elected leaders of Canada. The problem at hand is what to do about our foreign policy, not the problems with our domestic leadership. Canada should in fact be in Afghanistan because we committed to be there in the first place. We cannot yet leave because of the present conditions, to do so would be not in the best interests of the people of that nation. We have the obligation participate in the reconstruction of that nation which we helped to destroy. That we must do. As to this nations role in the redevelopment of that country, I will suggest that we simply consider our efforts in the nature of a humanitarian effort. We should be building schools and hospitals and training their law enforcement people. We should help to train their military as well. We should do these things because we were part of the reason for the collapse of these services in our military efforts against that nation. Its not that complicated.