Leafless

Black Dog I acknowledge the Left Wing and homosexual agenda rebutes Right wing ideolgies and operates on the same principle Quebec does. With Quebec it's always been about linguistic superiority and with Left Wing and the homosexual community it's all about intellectual superiorty a direct take off from the Trudeau hippie pot smoking era in which Trudeau and his pals thought they were so intellectually superior. Maybe the next election all those dormant Right Wingers who don't bother to vote and hopefully will vote kicking Liberal butt and their communist policies out for good.

g_bambino "Where we went wrong" Ever since the Trudeau era emphasis has been on Quebec's interest with Quebec politicians driving that point home with the Liberals Rights and Freedoms Charter providing the necessary momentum. This continual power clash between two different ideolgies continues to drain the countries financial resources and has crippled our political system and perhaps even contributed to making us dependent on immigration. I think this countries future is in jeoprody and Canada's politicians are directly to blame for not having the fortitude to face the initial political deliema and failure to recognize that the Battle on the Plains of Abraham will continue indefinably as Quebec it appears will never be satisfied playing a secondary role.

Melanie_ The post in question that 'I Miss Trudeau' could not understand was concerning his post in which he said --"Many of the lefties I know believe in a much higher power. What they do look down upon are the people that insist in a higher power ought to detirmine the law of the land." It would seem his 'lefties are possibly homosexual and are not Christian' since any Christian denomination feels Christianity is a part of Canada with morals and values that should be reflected in law. I assumed 'I Miss Trudeau' would have easily picked up on that post--sorry! BTW--Iam a heterosexual male--What are you Melaine???

Black dog Are you unable to form a paragraph relating your thoghts without CONTINUALLY resorting to quotes on virtually every sentence one posts?? BTW Candians never did get a chance to be part of the process the Canada they would like to see. This I would like to see-- ALL provinces in Canada using the NWC for instance to protect the English language in their respective provinces--and Iam sure the feds would allow this or using the NWC to enforce religious convictions. We have always had Rights in Canada before the introduction of the charter with no major problems and these Rights and freedoms are a direct result concerning the British win of Canda and giving us their form of government and in fact are related to the creation of the U.S. by the same people. You seem to want to disassociate Canada's close relationship to Britain and the U.S. Our freedoms are under attack and originating from this country--namely the Liberal government. The presence of the U.S. GREATLY reduces the risk of any type of attack in Canada--what do you think the reason is-- Canada has no enemies?

Black Dog Concerning --"there would be no Consistency"--What consistency is there now as far as for the feds enforcing charter rights? Quebec the second largest province in Canada discriminates every day and the feds do nothing about it. Why should the federal government be the ones who detirmine what a right issue is when obviously regional interest in the case of Quebec for instance establishes unrealistic demands from the rest of Canada. All provinces should have the same rights to accomodate for regional interest and cultural aspects. You ask what freedoms we fought for. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms are BASED on the initial freedoms Canada won and this is owed to the British win on the Plains of Abraham. U.S presence ALONE is responsible for maintaining Canadian security which directly relates to maintaining Canada's freedom's. I don't think any one would deny that fact.

Black Dog Concerning--"Individual rights and freedoms are inherent: that is no one has to earn the rights guaranteed under the Charter." This is if course depending on interpretation of the Charter in which I argue should be in the hands of the provinces rather than the federal government who are not in the position I feel to make major decissions incorporating a handfull of politicians while ignoring Canadian democratic input. Irregardless rights and freedoms were fought for and that is why we enjoy the freedoms we do to-day. The charter Rights you referred to are not the rights and freedoms that were fought for. To-day the rights and freedoms that we enjoy are basically protected by the United States of America much to their credit.

I can't wait to see how the Liberals are going to repond to this one. The Bloc seems to be talking for nothing concerning separation as no one really knows how far Quebec would get with separation demands even if that was the route it chose. I don't know how the Bloc will address the fact that the St. Lawrence Seaway is an international waterway jointly developed by both the U.S. and Canada. I would like to see the reaction in the U.S. if Quebec ever decided to block off off the St. Lawrence for any reason.

I don't think this could be Paul Martin's strategy at all. Picking a fight with the U.S. could turn sour with the U.S. retaliating (depending on the scenario) making the Liberals look foolish and this could cost the Liberals big votes especially if there is any retaliation that affects Canadians directly. As for Ralph Klein --Since when is Alberta the ONLY province in Canada that likes to control their own resources. Perhaps Ralph Klein does not look that foolish in the eyes of Canadians after all and could translate to votes for Mr. Harper.

I Miss Trudeau Are you saying in effect Christianity is a harmful religion when from the begining of this country assisted with government greatly, into building a civilized, moralistic, great country with laws reflecting the values and goodness associated with Christianity? How can you codemn such a noble cause especially when you were never excluded but instead aggressively forged your own unmoralistic path directly into standards associated with Christianity instead of pursuing the proper path and create standards for your diverse group like any other religious organized body has done.

This type of behavior is nothing new with the Liberals. Mr. Trudeau, Jean Chretien and now Paul Martin all have behaved as KINGS in dictating social policies and Liberal political agenda taking advantage of British system of government (that's why they don't really want Canada as a republic even though the Liberals have been trying to dissasociate the monarchy they are further ahead with parliamentry democracy and they are well aware of that fact).

House Leader of Bloc Quebecois Michel Gauthier acknowledges the Constitution gives the federal government authority over the St.Lawrence but says he is fed up with policies that leave Quebecers with little control over economic development and enviromental protection of the seaway. He said Quebec could take control of the seaway by separating from Canada. "The heart of Quebec has been left in the hand of Ottawa,"he said. Development of the seaway in the middle of the 20th century benefitted Candian cities around the Great Lakes to the detriment of Montreal and other cities in Quebec, he complained. But Mr.Gauthier says "Newfoundland ahd the same fishery resources as Iceland and Iceland became a rich country and Newfoundland became a poor province. This was due he says as Iceland managed it's fish on it's own and in Newfoundland was managed by the gederal government * excerpts taken from the Ottawa Citizen-sun. |Oct.16, 2005. I think Mr. Gauthier fails to acknowledge the many things the federal government does to help Quebec and is very immature to scream separation at situations Quebec wants control.

redhead_pt Iam just trying to be polite! May I should have replied with 'cheap homo propaganda.' Have another glass of white wine you elated self righteous moronic idiot.

cybercoma Concerning-"Immigration wouldn't be half as bad as it is if the immigrants could speak French or English." Let's call a spade a spade. You are probably aware or know Quebec has it's OWN immigration policy and it's immigrants can speak French for certain. So why is this important to the other provinces if they can't speak French as Canada is not an officially bilingual country and the majority language outside of Quebec is English?

redhead_pt I dont consider you to bright either and no is asking you to share my views or even reply. I consider you a mere socialistic crusader out primarily to distort views with unrealistic socialistic and homosexual rhetoric. Respecting freedoms and equalities are items that have to be earned and not just taken for granted especially concerning an established society who already has laid the social framework. Your interpretation of common identity as being multicultural, sexual, spirtual and social diversity covers a lot of ground and I don't think many Canadians would be willing or ready to accept that at face value and clarification would obviously be next to impossible due to the sheer numbers of different and undefined opinions as of what each item is suppose to represent or mean.

This whole immigration issue needs to be seriously questioned. Has anyone ever seen the official fiqures province to province demandind the requirement for immigrants for specific or specialized jobs or even to justify population requirements from province to province. Look at Toronto one of the most messed up cities in Canada due to innigration. I am begining to think Canadians trust the feds a little to much. Would it be totally inconceivable to suggest the Liberals have a hidden agenda concerning immigration.

eureka Yes the charter was implemented a decade before Meech and Charottetown but it is being used to make Quebec a 'distinct society' by propelling and enforcing Quebec's interest especially via official bilingualism and bilingualism in general. The federal Liberals have always been tied in with Quebec and Quebec politicians it seems have a very influential effect within the Liberal Party itself. This is why I've always thought it a risky or dangerous to have this charter in the hands of the federal government. Your view of repatriating the constitution intially simply to have our own native constitution is trivial. The constitution was repatriated so the feds could make ammendments to it and especially to include this charter. But I don't believe the Charter of rights and Freedoms should ever have included as a separate document as part of our constituion without a referendum. We still follow the British system of parliament to a tee and the main reason Parties like the Liberals like this system is because involves power. Paul Martin has the power of a king and can pretty much do what he wants with little interference. I think Canadians have been 'had' democratically speaking and should demand electoral reform as this is going to be the only way to eliminate the Liberal stranglehold on Canada.

eureka I won't short cut on terminolgy with you any more as you apparently are unwilling to accept broad interpretations. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms was not directly added to the BNA Act but added as a separate document to be included with the BNA Act to form our constitution. I have to ask you eureka--why was the constitution repatriated in the first place?? The Charter of Rights and Freedoms certaintly do contain parts that are applicable to Quebec because when in the hands of the federal government parts can be interpreted to include Quebec or to propell Quebec interest and I believe this charter to be a replacement for the failed Meech Lake and Charlottetown Accord. Official languages of Canada Sections 16-22 promotes Quebec interest by promoting enforcing bilingualism. Minority language educational Rights-again forces English to provide French schools and promotes bilingualism while Quebec is excluded. It should be noted Canadians never were involved regarding official languages although English never required any sort of official status. Iam not against the charters basic freedoms but I simply think these freedoms should be PROVINCIALLY controlled because as it is the federal government cannot or will not provide English with charter Rights in Quebec and is promoting French in a discriminatory manner as well as forcing provinces to provide French federal charter Rights outside of Quebec. The federal government is using the same 'one way street logic' as Quebec.

Black Dog Concerning-Individual Rights and liberties should not be protected." The U.S. constitution was adapted by convention in 1787 and later ratified bt the individual states. Our Charter of Rights and Freedoms was an addition to our original BNA Act 115 years later without a referendum. Also this charter include sections on language pertaing to Quebec which under certain interpretation promotes bilingualism under federal authority. I question what right does the federal government have to promote this when there is nothing specific pertaining to any degree of bilingualism in the government or promotion of any kind in the provinces. This is why I think there should have been a referendum as the federal government chooses do do what they want without the permission of the people of Canada relating to the charter. Of course I belive human Rights should be protected but in Canada it should be a provincial reponsbility as to avoid federal manipulation concerning any possible hidden agenda.

Black Dog "Can I name a country that's more democratic Sure, the U.S. is more democratic and houses every skin colour and culture known to man and immigrants are beating a path to immigrate to the U.S. They incorporate mini referendums every election, and do not incorporate a totalitarian type democracy like Canada. Immigrants fair very well and as a result incorporating the so called 'melting pot' producing Americans that leave their politcal baggage at home. The U.S constitution as remained realitively intact unlike ours that was repatriated from England in which the Charter of Rights and Freedoms a MAJOR addition to the existing BNA Act WITHOUT the participation of individual Canadians is a slap in the face to democracy in Canada.

It's amazing how these threads go off topic--- Anyways Paul Martin thinks he is scoring big time running to China looking for a new trading partner to teach the U.S. a lesson. But he should remember China is a human Rights abuser and according to local media has been accused of large scale coporate espionage, copyright infringement, software piracy, extorting bribes and kickbacks from it's buisness partners to ignoring international trade conventions to swapping market access for political support. Looks like the Liberals are running in the wrong direction to possibly avoid the same or similar problems as they are with the U.S.

Melaine_ You call Canada a truly democratic society when the only think democratic about it is about the same as what they are trying to apply in Iraq---Your Right to an intial vote concerning your choice of government. Please explain how Canda is so democratic and name me another country in this world that is the truly democratic type you speak of??

eureka I cannot beleive the lefties who insist Canada is properly being represented in a democratic manner. Canadians are not democratically being represented by their MP's who most of the time vote Party policy concerning any issue and Canada also is in desperate need of electoral reform. Concerning the Charter of Rights and Freedoms eureka, it can certainly be manipulated like it has been with Quebec by the Liberals to suit their Liberal political agenda. If you call the charter being voted by Canadians on by a handful of politicians rather than the whole population then you have got no clue as to what constitutes democracy. The BNA Act was patriated for ammendments. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms cannot be viewed as an ammendment and like I said constitutes important legislation that politicians initially had no buisness ratifying. If you don't like what you see eureka-to bad!

newbie Someday newbie you will have to realize that Quebec wants Canada and really wants no part of confederation as not only the Conservatives failed despite Mulroney being a Quebecer to unite Quebec with Canada but so did the Liberals fail big time despite giving them federal entities and taxpayers money spent on bilingualism with estimates ranging anywhere from $36-billion dollars to $600-billion dollars with the latter fiqure attested by a Toronto accountant.

eureka The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is a powerful document as all Rights become a federal responsibility guaranteed in the constitution. The Charter overides all laws in Canada pertaining to Rights and Freedoms and therefore can be interpreted federally NOT provincially. The Charter was not signed by Quebec so obviously it was not agreed like you said by all premiers.

Melanie_ "Why is it so important for me to marginalize them." Basically what is happening to this country is that it is becoming fractionated both culturally and now sexually. Is this the type of country you want to live in with little groups all over, all claiming recognition of one sort or another. I think under these conditons Canada does not deserve the status of a country but some sort of socialist commune with no real values or common identity. I've lived in Canada all my life and will continue to repel this type of situation as I feel this will hasten the end of Canada as we know it to-day.