Matthew

Which one of these things do you think has a significant chance of happening?

Trump attended multiple NATO meetings and refused to affirm our article 5 commitments for years. In one speech he gave, he refused to read the sentence in his prepared remarks that confirmed our commitment to article 5. He eventually did do so a month later in a fairly low profile way. But unnecessarily making it an issue for years suggests reluctance and projects to the whole world weakness in the alliance. And the trump strategists have apparently been allowed to continue making proposals for weakening our nato commitments, which further fuels doubts as to his sincerity on the issue.

That's a self-serving interpretive opinion. Democrats make the same claim about Republicans tendency to cut taxes and then increase spending which then they have to clean up. In general what I'm reading here is again the up front admission that if trump tanks the economy through his policies your plan will be to not hold him accountable for it. I think we all knew this already though.

Because it's irrelevant. Let's just assume for the sake of argument that the other 31 nations of NATO have quintupled their defense spending and that it's solely because of Donald J Trump's brilliant negotiating tactics, 5d chess moves, and intense learned expertise of all things known to mankind. Lets just assume it was the greatest diplomatic accomplishment of the previous 248 years of US history--nay, the single greatest feat in the last 10,000 years of civilization. No source needed, its just a given. Alright but then next he also greatly undermines the core basis NATOs deterrence power by deliberately refusing to affirm America's commitment to article 5. What good is all the spending in the world if the actual greatest power of the alliance is thrown into doubt?

Yes, if he did that's great. But either way its irrelevant since he has refused to endorse article 5 and has allowed his team to make policy proposals for reducing our role in NATO. Not only does China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran love what he's done but so do leftists worldwide, who have long viewed NATO as an instrument of capitalist imperialism.

Yes, I see. No matter how much his policies impact trade, prices, or create instability that cause markets to decline, you're mentally prepared to reach back years earlier to blame it on some democrats somewhere-- even as Republicans control all three branches of the government and the vast majority of state governments. For most Democrat administrations the deficits trend downward during their time in office. For most republican administrations deficits trend upward. Go look it up.

Hm ok, well that certainly doesn't make sense. Thanks for participating.

So you're anticipating that this will be your response when trump crashes the economy? Alright, interesting stuff especially given how his tax cut greatly exacerbated deficit spending.

I hope in 4 years I can revisit and admit I was wrong, which I will do. But the economy is way past due for an adjustment and I think trumps policies will likely be a catalyst for a recession.

Your prediction has been noted. Good luck!

In the last 50 years there have been 7 recessions. All but one of them started during a Republican administration. Except for 2 months of recession at the start of covid, the last major recession in the US lasted from december 2007 to June of 2009. The prospect of a stable transer of power to republicans and initial excitment by investors is likely to create the conditions for a bubble. Furthermore, the US president has some unilateral powers over trade that could likely impact the economy severely if used in the way that Trump has long suggested.

That is true, and if trump did contribute toward shaking europe out of their complacency I have no problem giving him some credit where it is due. But in turn any firepower is useless as a deterrent against Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran if it is not backed by solid diplomatic mutual protection agreement. Trump adding ANY doubt to that promise by deliberately refusing to endorse artitle 5 ONLY serves the interest of Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran.

Agreed, I do not feel down at all. Nor do I blame trump people for their gullibility. The trump movement is the culmination of short-sighted decisions made by democrats in the 90s to shift toward the right and mostly abandon their primary focus on the labor movement. Republicans this time around will either improve things, or far more likely, further damage the country and repudiate themselves. So either way I look forward to seeing what they actually do to help anyone's lives get better, given how much they lied to get there.

Yes. The issue at hand is whether trump weakened NATO. The strength of the alliance is the promise that 32 countries have made in article 5 of the treaty. Any doubt as to whether the US will uphold that promise weakens the alliance dramatically. Which is what China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran want to happen.

Trump is the only president since 1949 who has not publicly endorsed article 5 of the nato treaty. This is quite well known. If you think it's wrong just show me him doing this.

By what measure are you referring to? Trump refused to confirm US commitment to article 5 of the nato treaty, which is something all presidents do. Failing to do this itself weakened the alliance. Its the US saying "we may not have your back." After Trump, the US has once again coordinated support among NATO allies in support of Ukraine, and actually helped expand the alliance to include Finland and Sweden. Meanwhile Trump's inner circle proposed a "dormant nato" policy idea, suggesting that the US take a back seat role and only ever help if it becomes an emergency, which again is akin to weakening the actual power of the alliance that we lead.

He functions as one, perhaps just out of sheer bumbling ignorance. His siding with Putin at the Helsinki 2018 conference was revealing. He distanced us diplomatically from every one of our democratic allies. He weakened NATO. He weakened our position against Iran. He weakened our position against North Korea. He's come down as being essentially anti-Ukraine. These are all things Russia wants. I'm sure there are a few things he did that they disliked but overall Trump's foreign policy last time was more than Putin's wildest wet dream.

Let me know when you have a fact to work with.

Our national policy between 1991 and 2014 was to try to get Russia to align with us by incorporating them into the capitalist liberal-democracy realm. It failed because Putin wanted authoritarianism and imperialist expansionism. Trump is functionally a Russian asset and part of their own national policy of trying to get the US to align with them by abandoning our democratic values and our powerful post-WWII military alliance. Once Trump reduces NATO and thus marginalizes US power abroad, then China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran will be better positioned do whatever they want. I gaurantee you these leaders are popping corks today.

Looks like the people have spoken and you had a good night. I look forward to seeing what they do with it this time around.

Exhibit A: Georgia republicans try to invalidate mail-in votes from Democrat-leaning precincts. Trump apointed federal judge declares that their argument has "no supporting facts." https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/11/05/2024-elections-live-coverage-updates-analysis/georgia-rnc-votes-case-00187486

If a mild complaint from an intern and saying the word f*ck is the best you've got then yeah very normal compared to what you've admitted is the sociopath behavior of trump.

Uh let's see, a trustworthy rational person with a normal temperment and respect for basic social norms and human decency.

The fact that you know trump doesn't care about you, doesn't believe in anything he does or says, and you still support him is the saddest commentary on brainwashing I've ever seen.