Oksanna

So, in something as important as vaccines in a gigantic pandemic, you are super easily manipulated. I showed you the real data, but you simply insist on just focusing on cherry picked data, and bad interpretations of data. https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2022/04/vaccines-could-have-prevented-nearly-a-quarter-million-covid-19-deaths-in-us-study-finds/ This is how important disinformation is. There is no terrorism, no crime, nothing that is deadlier than THIS.

Here's what's true about what you said. Trying to blockade against the virus wasn't going to work (against china, against africa, against inda, none of it), operation warp speed was a great thing, and of course tons of mistakes were made by everyone, and cuomo was a huge piece of trash. And yes, because by comparison to trump's ineptitude, he looked so good, lots of people were starving for any kind of leadership and sure didn't judge him fairly. But it was trump that we have on tape saying he was going to intentionally lie about it. If trump had forced the vaccines through without completing clinical trials, THEN we would have a good reason to worry about the vaccines, at least until the trials were complete. The lab leak thing is still all just numerology and innuendo, and isn't really important anyway. What IS important is that antivax disinformation (and almost 100% of it coming from right wing propaganda outlets), killed nearly a quarter million Americans. That's a thing that hasn't been accomplished since the civil war. That makes disinformation maybe the biggest threat on the planet right now.

Lol, that's like 9 people who are going to be fired for their political views. Honestly, no, he's not exactly dumb. And he has something. But he is certainly not smart. Probably about average.

If your sample size is about 400 people (wherever you got it from), you can't really tell anything. That's called cherry picking when you have a data set the size we do. That is a trick that they will use to lie to you. I know lots of right wingers were pointing to Israel's rising death rate but wouldn't look at the numbers, ad didn't realize that the Israel data actually showed how effective the vaccine really was. A good example is that chart you are showing. The real story is how big of a difference there is between vaxxed and unvaxxed. It's even more stark when you guys were good enough to put mandates in place and have over 80% vaccinated. That saved countless lives, but it also means that that giant extra chunk of deaths came from the small percentage of people who didn't get the shot. The difference between boosted and not is more or less noise at that point, and probably accounted for by the fact that the most vulnerable were the ones the most boosted. Now, a more realistic data set is the idiots we have down here. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~All+ages We are closer to 50/50, and the difference is clear. No matter how you look at it, vaccinating people is probably the single greatest thing mankind has ever done to save lives. In this pandemic alone, simply spreading vaccine misinformation cost America nearly a quarter million lives. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid19-and-other-leading-causes-of-death-in-the-us/#COVID-19 deaths among unvaccinated adults that likely could have been prevented with vaccinations, June 2021-March 2022 We have TONS of laws and restrictions all over the world. We have police that shoot people, we fight wars to fight terrorism, all of those things are massively worse and a greater restriction on rights than vaccine mandates which have always been around. But none of them come remotely close to saving as many lives as a vaccine mandate. Not even close. Now, I ask about your definition of 'immunity' because it's not that straightforward. A quick google search: "the ability of an organism to resist a particular infection or toxin by the action of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells." Now, the question is, do you take that to mean 100%? If someone told you that vaccine's give you 100% immunity, they were lying to you. Nothing is 100%. But, 90%? That's spectacular immunity. But hell 10% would have saved roughly 30,000 American lives. That's 10 times 9/11. Probably even that would have been worth it. What happened was that we had an idiot, incompetent president when the pandemic broke out. He did what most useless autocrats do and tried to just lie about it, then politicize it. When he lost (and tried to dismantle America with him on the way out), his bootlickers in the right-wing propogandosphere realized that killing as many Americans as possible would make Biden look bad. So they marched on an extensive campaign to kill as many Americans as they could, and they were pretty successful. Unfortunately, you guys got some spillover up there. But, you have better people than we do it seems.

So, what percentage of people who died were vaccinated do you think? What percentage was boosted? Why do you thnk that? What does 'immunity' mean to you?

Well, in fact, the comment you initially responded to me on was a response to someone implying cnn wasn't reliable because it's viewership is hurting. Now, one should be very skeptical of random news sources, especially if they are hyper partisan. For example, you should reject out of hand pretty much anything from infowars.

Well, I've never seen that. Because fox news has the best msm ratings, conservatives like to flaunt that. And on webistes like breitbart, you will see nonstop discussion of ratings. I've never seen any liberals talking about it. I HAVE seen discussion of how popular policies are.

ok, why do you think it wasn't 'effective enough?' What would be? Why do you think it's not a vaccine?

Are you perhaps confusing 'popular' and 'good ratings' with 'expert consensus?'

So, once again, I'm not going to try to follow the gish gallop, so let's try two points around disinformation: Do you believe that the vaccine was effective? Do you think the 'groomer' narrative is not disinformation? also, here is fox news being a propaganda arm of the trump administration: https://www.thedailybeast.com/mark-meadows-texts-reveal-fox-news-sean-hannity-took-direct-orders-from-team-trump-on-campaign-coverage

Tackling disinformation is not propaganda (and to be fair, what else is fox news?). We have seen real life genocide because of facebook, and the right-wing propaganda fever dream you guys live in caused thousands of idiots to literally try to overthrow the government. Given exactly 0 evidence, a significant number of people in America want to overturn the last election. A country cannot and will not survive like that. You yourself are a victim of the disinformation war on America. It will do what no hitler or southern state ever could hope to do: Destroy America. Considering Biden was handed the toughest situation from the worst president in history, he's doing pretty damned well. Most of the problems we have today are because of covid, you aren't American, so you don't understand these things. Elon is nothing special. He's just a regular dude, and he's not going to save you. Mostly because most of what you want saved from doesn't really exist. Well, trump and Elon are far more privledged then either Biden or Trudeau. But I was talking about justice Jackson. You are right, it was ridiculous of me to simply refer to an overqualified black woman the right hates and expect you to know which I meant..

Do you think ratings are any particular reflection of a news organizations accuracy?

Alright, I'm not going point by point, but some highilights: There has been wall to wall discussion on right wing media about how the left is loosing it's mind. I spend a lot of time on right wing media, and there is tons of that. There is definitely some hand wringing on the left, but much less than the right. There's mtg, boebert, trump, desantis, johnson, kennedy, gaetz, and on and on and on... None of them have any real policies. Their entire governance model is 'piss off people who care about human beings and America.' That's it .They are trolls. There is not an equivalent on the left of any of those trolls. Finally, when one of the super privileged white dudes who own your brain do something they are obviously insanely unqualified for like trump or musk, you guys have no end of leeway you are going to give them. When it's an overqualified black woman, you have none. Why is that huh?

Lol, yeah, I run into that a lot in my life. They should look at what it's like to be a liberal protesting in America lol. Very coddled by comparison.

Do... do you mean Los Angeles?

It's not the summation that's warped and twisted, it's your take that's warped and twisted, my summation was exactly accurate. "Death is normal so kill people" that is precisely what you said. If I could end or even significantly reduce cancer for all time by simply staying home, wearing a mask, or even better, just get a little shot, I would dive headfirst into it. because I'm not a monster. I'm not a coward, I'm not a terrible person.

First of all, there have been changes in the mortality rate. But, pretty much everyone dying for the last year or so has been unvaccinated. And, when you get into nazi-like arguments such as 'they are old so kill them' you know you are on the POS end of the spectrum.

So, this is what you consider 'science' huh? This is you 'examining and verifying?' An opinion piece about 60 meteorologists signing a letter? There's like 5,000 meteorologists in the US alone. And there is no evidence or science here at all. By contrast: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/8/2/024024?fbclid=IwAR0EMFqnsAm706dVB4QAu1f9mZBSXj7N5BqpSNxbp0jItvh3jg3ITfpXJb8 And yes, we should be VERY worried about how many people were willing to violently end democracy with zero evidence. That shows unambiguously what a big problem the right wing disinformation campaign against America is. And, I honestly don't believe America will survive it.

We're 'loosing our marbles' because millions are dying, and the sacrifices being asked to stop it are next to nothing, and you little killers are absolutely losing your minds over it. Sure, we had freedom to drive, but now there's a park there with lots of people, and if you drive there you go to jail. Sure, your life is a tiny bit more inconvenient, but in exchange people don't die.

By the way, think how much you idiots sacrifice to protect against crime or terrorism. What is the annual death toll of those?

No, the discussion is that millions of people are dying. Sure YOUR odds of dying are low, so you are therefore unwilling to make even the tiniest of sacrifices like a mask or vaccine to save millions of lives. THAT'S the conversation.

You certainly are if you encouraged folks to not get vaccinated, if you flaunted the vaccine, went to church, didn't wear masks, etc.. Sure, people aren't perfect, but you actively tried to make conditions favorable for spread, favorable for mutation favorable to kill people. I don't know much of anything about Trudeau, but an outdoor march masked and distanced is sure not the same thing as a cramped unmasked church with yelling and singing. Especially if the march was for something important. Also, even if Trudeau was hypocritical, that sure doesn't make you ok for being a killer does it?

To whatever extent that this is true, it is true because of you. What this probably means is that you idiots didn't just murder the hundreds of thousands that could have been saved by getting a vaccine, but all of the people in the future that might have been saved had you guys been better, or just even a tiny bit good.

So, we just blindly accept one guy who has every motivation to lie, but we ignore... oh I don't know.. every climate scientist in the world, and the ocean of good scientific evidence they present? Here's a good start to trumps plan to kill America https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/10/trump-powerpoint-mark-meadows-capitol-attack I don't think you are.

You don't love people losing their job for being too childish to help stop a pandemic? Are you stupid? Or do you intentionally not understand anything about how something spreads? If it's the former, then you should probably shut up, if its the latter, then you will never be punished enough.