Oksanna

What are 'natural causes?' I'd say that all things being equal, I'd rather take a sledge hammer than a slow death from cancer or something. None of that matters. The problem with your naturalistic fallacy is that these little clumps of cells don't become humans 'naturally.' It requires the intervention of a human.

You don't even have a good definition of death.

Also, there's even a word for this. It's called the 'naturalistic fallacy'

No, there isn't. My analogy is ridiculous because it is using the same logic as you are.

Also, what you are saying is "you are right"

Nope, you are warped. You just have been warped enough to think it's normal. And you don't understand biology and probability etc. So, the difference is that the way YOU are warped causes real harm in the world.

So, each one of them could have been fertilized by hundreds of millions of other sperm. You seem quite happy that THEY weren't born. At the moment anyone you know was fertilized, they made it impossible for hundreds of millions of people to be born. Where are your tears for THEM huh?

Yeah, lots of heroes, I get it, you care SO much. unless of course it's a baby that is born to a mother that isn't ready, that is in poverty, especially if they aren't white. You care SO much while it's a dozen cells, but the instant they need food, they need education, they need housing, or anything else, they are on their own. (unless they are trans, or gay, then suddenly you guys want them to suffer and die)

Nope. Most contraception just prevents fertilized cells from implanting. Almost all abortion is basically the same thing. The kind of abortion you are talking about almost never happens, and when it does, it probably means the fetus was going to die anyway, and the mother with it if they didn't perform the procedure. This is why the real point of this for a lot of people isn't about a baby's life (most forced birthers couldn't care less about the actual child) it's about punishing women for sex. That's why roe v wade was really about contraception, and a couple's right to have sex without having children. And, Louisiana already has a law ready to go that will outlaw contraception.

Noope. If I needed your kidney to survive, I can't force you to give it to me. And we eat pigs which are far more human than a blastocyst, so you are just desperately clinging to nonsense. This is not about babies. We know it's not about babies because the instant they really do become people, you guys are happy to let them suffer and die. This is about a lot of things, but (like everything on the right involving 'children') the last thing it is about is the 'infants.'

If what you are trying to say is happening is happening, then that should be evident in more detailed data, in other countries' data. It shouldn't rely on a lot of squinting and wild assumptions shakily derived from a single super coarse data sat that can't be replicated anywhere else, and doesn't hold up when you look at the data at a finer grain. A dream can be derived that way. But if you wanted to know the truth, you would start by looking at what the data is saying. Instead, what you are doing is starting with your conclusion, forcing an interpretation into one sort of kind of agreeable data, and then steadfastly ignoring anything that would tell you that you are wrong.

So wait wait, how do you draw the distinction between contraception and abortion?

I'm a clump of cells with feelings, and relationships, and ideas, and hopes, and memories. But all of that aside, if I get put into a mindless coma or something, and the only way to keep me alive is to strap someone to a table so that I can use their organs in a procedure that will make them suffer and possibly kill them, then sure, pull the plug on me.

Not really. But, what's thousands of times worse is 'leaving' it up to magical superstitions. Because the consequences of criminalizing abortion are pretty limitless.

Nope, live cells too. And a cow was much more alive than a blastocyst.

Nope, don't think so. Have you tried looking at a good data set? Can you find this 'pattern' in the data of any other country or data set? Is there any group of people who actually know what they are talking about who think this pattern is a real thing?

Nope, it's not all about the definition of human, there's a lot more going on even if we pretended a fertilized embryo were a person. I would not expect to acknowledge any kind of ambiguity though, whatever our definition of 'human' a fertilized embryo is not it. and I've long since gotten over any discussions of civility, we are long past that.

Yeah, killing a living breathing human being with thoughts and dreams and relationships and emotions etc etc.. just because you are a coward is murder. Taking a handful of unthinking cells out of a body is just what humans do millions of times per day. It's far less murder than say eating a hamburger.

What is much more relevant: During the relevant times, what percentage of what percentage of each group died. That is important, not wild assumptions and made up analysis by someone who has no idea what they are doing. Is 10% of the population making up 60% of the deaths? Then you have your answer.

That would all be meaningless. And I understand, no matter how official, no matter how expert, unless it agrees with your little conspiracy theory, it's 'discredited' 'fake news' 'eeevil Ameereican pruupagaanda'

You don't have a workable definition of 'murder' is what I'm saying, so sure, we can apparently call anything we want 'murder.' Step on a lego? Murder. Squish a bug? Murder. Whatever you want

https://www.webmd.com/baby/pregnancy-ectopic-pregnancy#1

Because when you completely make up a definition for 'killing an infant' then EVERYONE is killing infants, so it doesn't matter.

So, if you want to spin a silly narrative, you can focus on one set of course data, squint, make a ton of crazy assumptions, do bad math, and make a story. You can do all this when you know nothing about analysis, or the underlying subject. Or, if you want to know the truth, you can look to folks that actually know what they are talking about. Or, even look at the underlying data. https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-epi-confirmed-cases-post-vaccination.pdf?sc_lang=en https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/switzerland-covid-19-weekly-death-rate-by-vaccination-status?country=~All+ages https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/chile-covid-19-mortality-rate-by-vaccination-status?country=~All+ages https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/england-covid-19-mortality-rate-by-vaccination-status?country=~All+ages

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/abortion I mean blastocysts aren't people. Never mind all the super intrusive things this opens the door to. Heck, blowjobs used to be illegal.